Tax credits for hybrids are dumb

[sundevil777 102]

Hybrids are being made that are not giving any meaningfully higher fuel mileage. For instance the Lexus hybrid is more for additional performance than mileage, and other cars will follow this pattern.

I think the tax breaks should be more generalized, to allow an incentive to buy any vehicle with high fuel mileage numbers.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Gawain 0]

Not a bad idea. What about cars that don't use gasoline? Like natural gas? I think it could be much more generalized.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[sundevil777 102]

alternative fuel vehicles are already included in current tax breaks, but yes, it should be more generalized. No reason to promote just one technology.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[miked10270 0]

Perhaps the solution is not to tax the vehicle, but to tax the fuel.

There are so many variables to individual vehicles; How fuel efficient they are, how many miles they cover, what fuel they are capable of using, adn what fuel they actually use etc...

For example, is the Prius owner who does 20,000 miles a year really more environmentally friendly than the person who uses his Hummer 2,000 miles a year?

The sole proportional constant for the amount of fossil fuel used IS the actual amount of fossil fuel a person buys and uses! That's where the tax should be with tax breaks on the alternative fuels rather than vehicles.

After that, I'll bet that the market quickly adapts.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Gravitymaster 0]

The latest line of thinking is to tax mileage because govt. revenues are dropping as people seek out better gas mileage vehicles.

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[billvon 3,120]

> Perhaps the solution is not to tax the vehicle, but to tax the fuel.

They do that now. In CA, gas taxes total ~50 cents a gallon.

(GM says)
>The latest line of thinking is to tax mileage because govt. revenues
>are dropping as people seek out better gas mileage vehicles.

I think the objective should be to reduce oil usage, not miles driven. Given that, increasing gas taxes seems a better approach. A reasonable approach would be to tax as a percentage of sales cost, not as a fixed amount per gallon. That way, scarcity drives price which drives tax amount, which is more self-regulating in an open market (and gets you more revenue as the supply dwindles.)

(777 said)
>I think the tax breaks should be more generalized, to allow an incentive
>to buy any vehicle with high fuel mileage numbers.

Agreed here. Come up with criteria (fuel economy, cleanliness, fuel flexibility etc) and give credits to any vehicle that meets the criteria, no matter what the technology.

[rehmwa 2]

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tax breaks ... to allow an incentive to buy any vehicle with high fuel mileage numbers.

We already have incentives - higher gas prices.

Incentives for hybrid owners are like any incentive - a means for one special interest group to get benefit at the expense of another. Much like shoplifting, only government sanctioned.

If the government wants to meddle in its costly and inept way, then let's research alternate fuels and infrastructure instead of trying to conduct subjective social and economic experiments based on popularity (incumbants begging for votes.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[niolosoiale 0]

Quote

Perhaps the solution is not to tax the vehicle, but to tax the fuel.

There are so many variables to individual vehicles; How fuel efficient they are, how many miles they cover, what fuel they are capable of using, adn what fuel they actually use etc...

For example, is the Prius owner who does 20,000 miles a year really more environmentally friendly than the person who uses his Hummer 2,000 miles a year?

You can't just tax the fuel more because that drives the cost of everything up even more than what rising energy costs do. It just causes more inflation.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

You can't just tax the fuel more because that drives the cost of everything up even more than what rising energy costs do. It just causes more inflation.

I think that's the point of it. If you tax fuel more, the cost of everything goes up and that artificially accelerates the market forces to come up with alternatives to oil/gas. Hopefully before the pumps all start sucking up air.

And, on the plus side, the extra taxes will be completely absorbed in the government machine and create ZERO benefit to society as a whole - like most taxes. Thus, the lack of that money doing any good will help enable the pain of rising prices to drive these economic forces.

I'm not sarcastic, you are.

Edit: Your point, though valid, is lost on the 'tax the fuel' crowd. In their world, only the SUV and Hummer drivers will hurt and the rest of the economy will be completely disengaged from the effect. It's less about driving invention than about punishing those that make different trasnportation choices than they think Big Brother should require at their direction. They are, after all, smarter than the suboids.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Incentives for hybrid owners are like any incentive - a means for one special interest group to get benefit at the expense of another. Much like shoplifting, only government sanctioned.

Subsidizing emerging technology does have gains- since it's quite clear by now that the marginal cost of hybrid engines outweighs the fuel savings, government rebates encourage the continued sales while the manufacturers hit better economy of scale and cost reductions. Without it, Toyota might be the only manufacturer to continue on the path in a serious manner.

The comparisons of 20k/yr hybrid drivers versus 2k/yr hummer drivers (all 2 of them) is pointless. People will more or less drive the same amount regardless. You want the 20k/yr drivers on higher economy vehicles, period. Even the performance oriented hybrids are an improvement, but I'd agree that the need for a subsidy on them is questionable - much like the tax writeoff that made leasing 50k vehicles so cheap.