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Trent 0
Read the replies again. Apparently some people here can't fathom the difference between people assimilating into a common culture, sharing a common language, and being American first and donning pointy white hats and burning crosses. With the mentality of people like that... it's no wonder the US chooses to be divided more and more.
Hey, have it your way though... I'm just along for the ride.
Hey, have it your way though... I'm just along for the ride.
Oh, hello again!
rehmwa 2
QuoteApparently some people here can't fathom the difference between people assimilating into a common culture,
This is the exact problem.
"Assimilating" people and culture is a two way street. The people assimilate into the common culture, and the culture assimilates the best of whatever new the new people bring in and makes it part of the 'common culture'. That is the melting pot - a changing culture.
Today's new immgrants and multi-culturalists can't comprehend this. Actually, I suspect new immigrants do - right up until they meet the multi-culturalists who teach them to be defensive and childish about it.
They consider any form of merging to be brainwashing and loss of identity rather than a joining of all the best. They do understand that a LOT of nationalism is bad and unhealthy, but 'some' nationalism/pride is good and healthy and allows us to find common ground as we accommodate each other. They don't understand that it's a two way assimilation instead of just "fitting into the old mold"
It's a big problem today, people can't seem to understand that rarely is any issue "all or nothing". That's why your rabid multi-culturists and the 'klansman' are really the same deep down, they are all or nothing mentalities and neither really is willing to acknowledge what a 'melting pot' is supposed to mean.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Nice post. Well said. Talk about hitting the nail right on the head.
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"Assimilating" people and culture is a two way street. The people assimilate into the common culture, and the culture assimilates the best of whatever new the new people bring in and makes it part of the 'common culture'. That is the melting pot - a changing culture.
>>I agree with you on that one. Integration is the key. One of the key differences between the immigration of previous Irish, Italian and German cultures and the current mexican one is legality. When you come to the country illegally, it's extremely difficult to integrate into society. This leads to things like migrant workers working under conditions where they have no protections, no benefits, and leaving employers free to drive down wages because of workers' fears they will be deported. In many cases they can't even negotiate with management.
>>Since they can't integrate, they stay within their own cultural groups, and animosity and alienation naturally builds as they continue to see themselves "shut out". In many cases, many illegal mexican migrant workers come to the US to earn money under harsh conditions, send it back home, and eventually return. Only to repeat the cycle as needed. This failure to integrate hurts everyone involved, and is the source of all this friction.
rehmwa 2
QuoteNice post. Well said. Talk about hitting the nail right on the head.-
Yeah, but both sides of the coin have to recognize it. Neither really seems to.
(Actually, this is bull, if it's not done one person at a time, on a personal and individual aspect, then we are just wallowing in cultural stereotyping....) I don't believe in multi-culturalism at all, nor in a distinct American culture other than that of individualism.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteYeah, but both sides of the coin have to recognize it. Neither really seems to.
It would be nice to see more immigrants put more effort into assimulating into their new countries. But we more established people need to also understand that the world has changed and gone forever are the days when one race, one religion, one language dominates North America and Europe. Here in Vancouver BC, the Orientals are now the dominant race (with tons of East Indians, Pakistanis, Latinos and Eastern Europeans also dotting the landscape). It's gotten to the point where caucasin English speaking people are in the minority. But what can we do? As long as the immigrants make some sort of effort to speak the common language when dealing with the general public, who are we to say that they can't speak their Mother tongues when they interact with themselves. The only difference I see here in Vancouver is that the Orientals seem to look down on pretty much everyone else as inferior races and for the most part they are not interested in interacting with anyone outside of their race. But they are the majority and the majority gets to do whatever it is they want to do in this world and minorities just need to learn to deal with it. It's funny as for most of my life I have lived as the majority. But now I must learn what it's like to be a minority.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
Amazon 7
Ahhh Welcome to Hongcouver
Richards 0
QuoteThe only difference I see here in Vancouver is that the Orientals seem to look down on pretty much everyone else as inferior races and for the most part they are not interested in interacting with anyone outside of their race.
Thats OK. It's only considered racism if white people do it. Didn't you know that?
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
QuoteBy the way. Snopes confirmed it as True, and had a written reprise by Lamm.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp
I read it twice in the last month and I cnnot find anything but truth in his statements
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
QuoteQuoteQuoteOr India... one of the fastest growing economies
Would that be the same India where about 700 muslims were slaughtered in Gujarat while the government stood by and watched?
The worlds largest democracy?
RichardsQuote
Wasn't that was after the slaughter of innocent hindu's on a train, which was encouraged by militant fundamentalists in Gujarat?
QuoteAre you making a general statement about countries in general? Because the reason why the "whites" are in such power is because they came in, they kicked ass, and they took over.
Look at South Africa (and much of the rest of it), India, USA, plenty of places. They're quite content with maintaining the status quo. Duh.
A lot of what Dick Lamm said made sense. As soon as it's used as a club to beat into submission people that we aren't just like, it's no good.
If we, as a society, have to change to accomodate people, well, ya know -- that's what happens. A society is made up of the people participating in it. If the nature of those people changes, then the society changes.
And the people who used to be on top probably won't like it.
Wendy W.
I agree with what you're saying however you must admit SA isn't exactly a paradise these days is it?
wmw999 2,589
I wasn't trying to say it was a paradise.Quoteyou must admit SA isn't exactly a paradise these days is it
I'm just trying to say that the people in power tend to like the system they're in; they see changes in it as bad, and "attacking what works."
But a civilization changes. People change, technology changes. Trying to keep things the same as some idyllic age only works for the people who were on top during that age.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMany english people in quebec have moved away because of the hostility that is present.
And probably likewise, french people move away or just don't move to Alberta or BC because of hostility or (more likely) because nobody speaks French here.
No they simply take over and act like they own the place. I actually knew a french canadian girl ( who spoke perfect english) who went to Alberta (where french is about as common as leprechauns), and signed up for a tour of the provincial legislature. When the tour was about to start she proclaimed
"I would like my tour conducted in french" and would not budge untill they found someone who could do the tour in french for her (bitch). While they were looking for someone to help her she proceeded to berate them on all the "bilingual country" bullshit that is shoved down the throats of english canadians. Was it really neccessary for her to be difficult with them and get in their faces? My extended family is about one third french and I can speak from experience that quebec culture encourages contempt for english canada. We have accomodated them again and again yet they still pout and scream, and get in our faces.
I realize that there are two sides to all stories but I think at this stage it is quebec that needs to start extending a bit of an olive branch.
Richards
That is the French way isn't it?
wmw999 2,589
It's the American way, too.QuoteThat is the French way isn't it?
Go to any American enclave in any foreign country. There are plenty of Americans who don't learn the local language, and who expect to find people do deal with them. There are others who don't.
Funny thing about generalizations. They're guaranteed to be right about some people, and wrong about others. Maybe one shouldn't be generalizing.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteWould that be the same India where about 700 muslims were slaughtered in Gujarat while the government stood by and watched?
The worlds largest democracy?
And in the US the government watched as its soldiers slaughtered students who were protesting. And the rest of the country acted like nothing ever happened.
Trent,
In answer to your question, no I don't agree with the article. Actually I think it is a bit of a joke. What really would American culture be? A diet coke with your supersized cheeseburger? Rap music? Irish-Americans? Pizza?
Personally I would hate to see China town disappear cause some short sighted dick doesn't feel comfortable with people who don't look like him.
The article provides a nice rallying cry for those who want to scream...yeah fuck them pakis and give me back my country....
In answer to your question, no I don't agree with the article. Actually I think it is a bit of a joke. What really would American culture be? A diet coke with your supersized cheeseburger? Rap music? Irish-Americans? Pizza?
Personally I would hate to see China town disappear cause some short sighted dick doesn't feel comfortable with people who don't look like him.
The article provides a nice rallying cry for those who want to scream...yeah fuck them pakis and give me back my country....
Personally I would hate to see China town disappear cause some short sighted dick doesn't feel comfortable with people who don't look like him.
The article provides a nice rallying cry for those who want to scream...yeah fuck them pakis and give me back my country....
I was merely speaking on the fact that there is a large movement to "Take Back The US" or "Mexicanization" the fact is we are all immigrants here with only a few exceptions...but we ALL ASSIMILATED...only now that isn't being given any priority by the newest ILLEGAL immigrants
In my town there is a Cinco de Mayo parade in which there are banners, stating quite clearly what the attendees intent is.
What the banners usually say is "All for Mexico nothing for the whites" and "take back OUR country"
all written in spanish and the politicians wave from the floats as if they had just won the world's series.
The strange thing is that we no longer celebrate columbus day here because he was a slaver and a murderer( what is taught in schools ).
The Cinco De Mayo and Mexican Independance Day parades cost this city of 150k around $200,000 dollars, to provide for a segment of the local population that is not even Citizens of the United States of America.
I am sure some of you will think I am a racist now...
only your conclusion would be wrong
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteThe Cinco De Mayo and Mexican Independance Day parades cost this city of 150k around $200,000 dollars, to provide for a segment of the local population that is not even Citizens of the United States of America.
Right, cause I am sure that all mexicans in your town are illegal. I am not sure how I can take any of your other statements seriously when it is followed by "logic" like that.
QuoteQuoteThe Cinco De Mayo and Mexican Independance Day parades cost this city of 150k around $200,000 dollars, to provide for a segment of the local population that is not even Citizens of the United States of America.
Right, cause I am sure that all mexicans in your town are illegal. I am not sure how I can take any of your other statements seriously when it is followed by "logic" like that.
Actually our town has one of the highest illegal populations in the midwest.
and thats a FACT
if you don't believe it come here on may 1st and see what happens
QuoteQuoteThe Cinco De Mayo and Mexican Independance Day parades cost this city of 150k around $200,000 dollars, to provide for a segment of the local population that is not even Citizens of the United States of America.
Right, cause I am sure that all mexicans in your town are illegal. I am not sure how I can take any of your other statements seriously when it is followed by "logic" like that.
If they were legal they would not be Mexicans they would be Americans
edited to add I forgot that you were omnipotent
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOr India... one of the fastest growing economies
Would that be the same India where about 700 muslims were slaughtered in Gujarat while the government stood by and watched?
The worlds largest democracy?
RichardsQuote
Wasn't that was after the slaughter of innocent hindu's on a train, which was encouraged by militant fundamentalists in Gujarat?
The attack was on 58 hindus on a train and it happenned so fast that the government could not respond. The slaughter of 700 muslims happenned over several weeks while the indian government stood by and allowed men women and children to be slaughtered in revenge. Ether way, India is not a good example of multiculturalism or how a society should be run. They still stricly adhere to a caste system. Furthermore while slavery is technically illegal, it is overlooked by the authorities.
India is a better example of how cultural balkanization can lead to strife.
RichardsMy biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Amazon 7
QuoteIndia is a better example of how cultural balkanization can lead to strife.
Its more of a reflection of two religions not being able to cope with each other and the people on both sides willing destroy anyone not like them.
rehmwa 2
QuoteQuoteIndia is a better example of how cultural balkanization can lead to strife.
Its more of a reflection of two religions not being able to cope with each other and the people on both sides willing destroy anyone not like them.
I thought it's always just the fault of one side. Not both.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Trent 0
QuoteIn answer to your question, no I don't agree with the article. Actually I think it is a bit of a joke.
Sure it's a joke... in that it is poking fun at the fact that the author doesn't REALLY want to destroy the US, but wants to point out some really good ways to do it that are ALREADY happening.
QuoteWhat really would American culture be? A diet coke with your supersized cheeseburger? Rap music? Irish-Americans? Pizza?
What would French culture be? Berets, cheese, and wine? What would Mexican culture be? Burritos, frijoles, and sombreros? You can define a culture by MANY different things, and usually you can identify a culture without really putting a finger on one list of things. There IS an American culture, and it's fast disintegrating into the multicultural disaster that we're becoming. Just some of the things that I identify as part of the American culture... Baseball, Football, Hamburgers, Steaks, Hard Work, Independence, Optimism, English... and that's just a few things. Amazingly, if we Americans DON'T have a culture... why is it so easy to tell who's American when you travel? It does/did exist... and people who say it didn't, in my opinion, are being dishonest.
QuotePersonally I would hate to see China town disappear cause some short sighted dick doesn't feel comfortable with people who don't look like him.
I would definitely hate to see Chinatown go away, or Little Saigon, or Littly Italy. But I WOULD like to see that besides bringing some culture here to give themselves and us a taste of "home", that they integrated into American society. That includes, learning to speak the language so our legal documents don't have to be in 15 languages. Beleive it or not, when I lived in NY... I met a few people who were born and raised in Chinatown... and BARELY spoke English. Come on over... bring some culture, but become a part of the country that you risked everything to get to. But hey, that's reasonable... I don't expect everyone to agree.
QuoteThe article provides a nice rallying cry for those who want to scream...yeah fuck them pakis and give me back my country....
No, but it does seem to be quite honest and in most cases accurate. Does it bother people that someone said it because it isn't PC? It's not about kicking all the funny looking furriners out... it's about asking and expecting them to come here and join our society. Anyone encouraging policies or actions that only FURTHER separate the newcomers... is counterproductive to all of us.
But then again... I don't expect us Americans to ever get it right... or even close. Very few people in power have the balls to actually speak up on the matter. Everyone's afraid that they'll be labeled a xenophobe or a racist. Of course, the only power behind those labels comes from people being ignorant enough to beleive those doing the labelling.
Welcome to the downhill slope!
Oh, hello again!
Who said it was racist?
Stupid, yes.
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