Skyrad 0
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bch7773 0
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Don't get me wrong, if the guy had a clean shot, fair play but that outcome had fuck all to do with training and everything to do with luck.
exactly. he picked a bad moment to fire.
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JohnRich 4
QuoteI realize that I was not there and am therefore a monday morning quarterback, however a person has to use judgement. If the robber was stating an intention to kill anyway (or if the clerk had reason to beleive that the guy was going to go on a mass murder spree) then fine... Starting a shootout when there are bystanders around is reckless.
You start out by admitting that you know nothing at all about the circumstances, but then go ahead and jump to a conclusion anyway. How ironic. You can't make such a blanket statement as "starting a shootout when there are bystanders around is reckless." There are always exceptions. And this video might have been one of them. But we don't know, because no news story or facts were presented with it. And therefore, you have no business concluding that it was reckless, you monday morning quarterback.
Richards 0
QuoteYou start out by admitting that you know nothing at all about the circumstances, but then go ahead and jump to a conclusion anyway. How ironic. You can't make such a blanket statement as "starting a shootout when there are bystanders around is reckless." There are always exceptions. And this video might have been one of them. But we don't know, because no news story or facts were presented with it. And therefore, you have no business concluding that it was reckless, you monday morning quarterback.
I fully acknowledge that I would need more information to arrive at a final conclusion. The point I was trying to make are that the optics of the situation looked a little frightening. Wasn't trying to be the judge and jury, merely the saying that he had better have had a damn good reason for starting a shootout with all those bystanders around.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
SlyFox 0
The woman with the baby moved away from the gun fire, not in front of him.
*****Why would anyone jump from a perfectly good airplane? Because it isn't much fun if it's broke.****
*****Why would anyone jump from a perfectly good airplane? Because it isn't much fun if it's broke.****
JohnRich 4
Quotethe optics of the situation looked a little frightening. Wasn't trying to be the judge and jury, merely the saying that he had better have had a damn good reason for starting a shootout with all those bystanders around.
I agree.
He looked like a highly-trained shooter to me. He recognized potential danger, and put his hand on his holstered gun while blocking the bad guy's view of his action, gaining him the element of surprise. When the threat became real, his draw was lightening fast, and his three shots were fired rapidly, in the direction of the bad guy, and with good control. Once the bad guy got to the exit door, the shooter ceased fire because the lady and baby were now too close to the line of fire. So he was aware of that and stopped when he should have.
Yeah, it was too close to the lady and baby for comfort. But we don't know what else was going on out of camera view to the right.
I'd love to hear more about the circumstances, if anyone has a news story to go with it.
SlyFox 0
Why is the blame directed at the cashier that fired and not at the robber? It is the thief that put every ones lives in danger.
*****Why would anyone jump from a perfectly good airplane? Because it isn't much fun if it's broke.****
*****Why would anyone jump from a perfectly good airplane? Because it isn't much fun if it's broke.****
Richards 0
QuoteWhy is the blame directed at the cashier that fired and not at the robber? It is the thief that put every ones lives in danger.
It is not an issue of blaming so much as critiquing the way he handled it. Yes the robber started it by initiating the robbery, however regardless of who creates a scenario, if you are there then you have a responsibility to act in a manner that minimizes risk for all concerned. My question is did he do that?
Either the cashier figured that the situation was going to end violently regardless of what he did, or he did not think that.
If he was convinced that it was going to end violently then he had justification in shooting. Whether or not a reasonable person in his position subject to similar stress would have believed violence was imminent, I cannot tell and will not presume to do so without more information.
If however his reasoning was for any other reason then he was being irresponsible. Shootouts in enclosed spaces place everyone in the place at risk. Even if he was being carefull where his bullets went, the other guy probably would not show the same standard of care and therefore the shootout places everyone in danger. If the robber started shooting back and hit the woman/baby in an attempt to hit the clerck, then the clerk would bear some responsibility for starting the shootout unless it was absolutely neccessary to start shooting. That is why in scenarios where there are hostages, SWAT goes in as a last resort when the negotiator fears that people will die if they do not go in. Even with their degree of close quarter fighting skill, they realize that a shootout will endanger everyone, and try to avoid it at all costs.
In almost all cases if you cooperate and give the robber what he wants then he will leave with the money and your boss will claim it through his insurance. No amount of property is worth risking the lives of innocent people. It is also not right to try to be a hero when your actions have repercussions for everyone in the room.
I am all for citizens arming themselves for protection, and I like to see a bad guy get his commupance more than anyone, but I do feel that when you carry you have a responsibility to always consider the consequences of your actions before you draw.
Again, I realize that I do not have anywhere near enough information to draw a conclusion. I am just pointing out that questions do need to be asked about his actions and motives, and I am no way mitigating the actions of the robber.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
rehmwa 2
Quoteand I am no way mitigating the actions of the robber
yes you are
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteand I am no way mitigating the actions of the robber
yes you are
How?
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
1) The target was heading out the door
2) If the woman hadn't moved quickly there was a real possibility that the baby would have taken a round
3) The target then appears to return fire indiscriminatly again putting the woman and child at risk.
Don't get me wrong, if the guy had a clean shot, fair play but that outcome had fuck all to do with training and everything to do with luck.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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