should smoking be banned in public places?

[kelpdiver 2]

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With this logic, shouldn't we be able to masturbate in public? I mean, we are allowed to have bad habits, right? Oh, it's offensive? Well at least it won't kill or make ill anyone.

Are you sure you understand what "logic" is? If you're going to equate pubic indecency with something that a quarter of the population does in public 10 times a day, I'm wonder. You're committing a common logical fallacy to argue your case - the strawman.

Non smokers are acting fairly in wanted a restaurant section that is truly non smoking. Likewise, it would be obnoxious for a smoker to stand on the upwind side of a bus stop and light up.

But do non smokers have a right never to experience smoke anywhere anytime? Not a chance. Not when car exhaust dominates the streets.

[billvon 3,119]

>If you're going to equate pubic indecency with something that a
>quarter of the population does in public 10 times a day, I'm wonder.

OK, that was funny.

[jumpingjimmy 0]

does smoking (proportionally) kill more or less people than skydiving?

what about if you smoke and skydive for say... 40 years? are you at a much greater risk of dieing from smoking or skydiving?

[fireballgrl 0]

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Should smoking be banned in public places?

Yes.
1. Smoking-related lung cancer, emphysema and heart disease take a terrible toll not only on collective health, but on the health care infrastructure. Drives up the cost of health care and/or health insurance for everyone.
2. I rather like the fact that smoking in the US & Canada is steadily reducing & becoming less and less socially acceptable compared to the rest of the world. I presume that will correlate to comparatively lower rates of smoking-related diseases, too.
3. I'm selfish. I want to be able to go into the bar of my choice without second-hand smoking someone else's Marlboros or my clothes smelling like shit. Ditto for my teenage kids; I want to be able to have the option of taking them out for tavern food without them breathing smoke.

Factoid, FWIW: I used to work at a law firm with about 50 lawyers, 50 paralegals and 100 secretaries/clerks. The lawyers of course all had advanced degrees; all the paralegals had at least 2 years of college & some had bachelor's degrees, and most of the secretaries/clerks had no college at all. Not a single one of the lawyers smoked; about 1/3 of the paralegals smoked, and I'd say about 90% of the secretaries/clerks smoked. Now, you don't have to be a sociologist to analyze the import of this raw data; it plainly speaks for itself.

Society is better without smoking than with it. Most things (within reason) done to make it fade away forever are fine by me.

Best response so far...

[Amazon 7]

I think it is everyones duty that when you see someone smoking... that they should immediately be put out... You would not want them to break out into flames would you

[downwardspiral 0]

Hello, my name is Jason and I'm a smoker. You haters crack me up and remind of the pilots out there that hate skydivers because "its stupid to jump out of a perfectly good airplane."

I personally won't smoke in a bar, eating establishment or even a smoke shop (place that sells tobacco etc. for those of you who don't smoke) regardless of the law. I don't mind going outside. Guess you could say I'm "outdoorsy"...heh. Of course I'm one of those very few courteous smokers out there.

edited to add: oh yeah....when in vegas a few months ago, I smoked up a storm but only when in the casino. That place is a smokers paradise. Damn I love that city!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[TheAnvil 0]

.

Go to any bar and look around. You'll find that there are many people drinking that do not smoke. Yet you don't find cirrhosis or pancreatic cancer killing/hospitalizing people in the same numbers as lung cancer. Were alcoholism as detrimental as smoking, the numbers would at least be on the same order of magnitude. Just over 2 million Americans are suffering from alcohol-related liver diseases. How many smokers are suffering from smoking induced lung problems? Tens of millions.

Your analogy comparing skydiving to smoking really doesn't hold much water. Even should the number of skydivers grow to equal the number of smokers, the statistics would remain the same. Skydiving is statistically a very safe sport. Smoking, in contrast, is ALWAYS detrimental to the lungs of both the smoker and the innocent people exposed to their second hand smoke.

Smokers tend to scream and cry about non-smokers impinging on their freedoms. If I sip tequila in a bar, what have I done to anyone? Nothing. If a smoker smokes in a bar or anywhere else, what has he/she done to anyone else? Exposed them to carcinogens, smelled up their clothes/hair, and made them uncomfortable. "You don't have to go in those establishments!" tends to be the response of those defending smokers. This is true. Those who choose to go into those establishments who do not smoke choose to inhale carcinogenic material produced by the smokers.

It's not only restaurants, but beaches and parks too. Nothing ticks me off more than to be lying at the beach and have some fucktard upwind of me light up a cancer-stick and ruin my sunbathing/reading/enjoying the outdoors. What right does that asshole have to expose me to carcinogenic material? None. If I sip tequila on the beach, what have I done to anyone? Nothing. I've exposed nobody to carcinogens. I haven't stunk up their hair/cloths/swimsuit. I haven't caused them to cough or become offended. I'm merely sipping a drink, whereas smokers are jeapordizing the health of others as well as themselves.

Smoking advocates' response to this always gives me a chuckle. "What right do you have to inhibit the enjoyment of smokers who wish to smoke on a beach? You enjoy sunbathing - they enjoy smoking." This response once again shows that advocates for smoking in public refuse to face the fact that their action causes harm and discomfort to others. Anytime you ask a smoker bemoaning the restrictions on smoking in public places why he or she believes they have the right to expose others to carcinogens, they tend to run like cowards rather than answer the question. "I think I have a right to expose everyone else to carcinogens because..." will rarely come out of the mouth of the smoker or his/her advocates.

I've ebabbled and my stove is telling my my chicken is done.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Shotgun 1]

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Just over 2 million Americans are suffering from alcohol-related liver diseases.

Alcohol damages a lot more than just your liver.

And there's a helluva lot more than 2 million alcoholics in this country, not even counting 'problem drinkers'. A minimum one-week stay in alcohol rehab will cost an insurance company at least $10,000, with little chance of said alcoholic actually recovering. Diseased alcoholics generally live a lot longer than diseased smokers, most likely requiring a lot more health care $. (And no, smoking does not cause lung illness 100% of the time)...

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Your analogy comparing skydiving to smoking really doesn't hold much water. Even should the number of skydivers grow to equal the number of smokers, the statistics would remain the same.

I'd be curious to see some statistics that show how much skydiving-related injuries cost to health insurance companies based on how many insured skydivers there are. (I really am curious - I honestly have no idea... except that I have seen some pretty costly injuries, and considering that skydivers are proportionally small in numbers compared to smokers... It would be interesting to know, though I'm fairly sure that no such stats exist.)

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It's not only restaurants, but beaches and parks too.

I agree about beaches, and restaurants too... Though if a particular restaurant allowed smoking, I would probably just not patronize the place... and if I cared enough then I would complain to the management to tell them why I wouldn't be eating at their restaurant anymore.

[TheAnvil 0]

I'd be interested in seeing that too.

I rate this Vinny-created chicken recipe as mediocre. Darn it. Ahh well...desserts are my specialty anyway... That's what I get for not drinking tequila today.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Shotgun 1]

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I rate this Vinny-created chicken recipe as mediocre.

Well I'm sorry to hear that your chicken didn't turn out so well. But hopefully it will bring you comfort to know that it is likely a million times better than anything that I would cook.

[skydyvr 0]

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Should students have a right to jump without AAD's? (Assuming they were informed of the risks, of course.) Should skydivers have the right to jump without reserves? Should DZO's have the right to not maintain their aircraft at all, as long as people sign a waiver? Would those things protect skydiver's rights, or damage them in the long run?

Good argument, except that smoking in a bar is a consumer driven want, such as a basic tandem skydive. It's not just some DZO trying to save money.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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>If you're going to equate pubic indecency with something that a
>quarter of the population does in public 10 times a day, I'm wonder.

OK, that was funny.

And thus Freud's theories refuse to die!

. . =(_8^(1)

[champu 1]

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It's not only restaurants, but beaches and parks too. Nothing ticks me off more than to be lying at the beach and have some fucktard upwind of me light up a cancer-stick and ruin my sunbathing/reading/enjoying the outdoors.

Anytime you ask a smoker bemoaning the restrictions on smoking in public places why he or she believes they have the right to expose others to carcinogens, they tend to run like cowards rather than answer the question. "I think I have a right to expose everyone else to carcinogens because..." will rarely come out of the mouth of the smoker or his/her advocates.

Restaurants and bars should not be treated as public places in the same sense that beaches and parks are public places. The former, being businesses, should be allowed to cater to patrons as they choose. The latter, however, are a truly public resource, and are shared by those who visit them, pay taxes, and vote.

If you want to get rid of smoking on the beach and in parks you visit, you head to the policy makers, your local government, perhaps with a petition in hand, and ask for a ban on smoking in these places. In California, this has happened, and it has made the beaches here completely smoke-free.

If you want to get rid of smoking in the restaurants and bars you visit, you head to the policy makers, the owners, perhaps with a petition in hand, and ask for a ban on smoking in these places. What you don't do is go over their heads, to the government and get smoking banned in all restaurants and bars.

You don't have to go to the government to make a new law for everything you want done. But I guess when the only tool you bother to carry in your tool bag is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

[skydyvr 0]

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Not the same. As a skydiving instructor you are willingly partaking in the dangerous behaviour. Not identical to inhaling second-hand smoke.

As a bartender in a smoking bar, you are willingly partaking in a dangerous behavior.

If people hate smoke so much, you'd think smoke-free bars would flourish without laws forcing the issue. People should have a choice, both on the consumer side and the employee/employer side.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Amazon 7]

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If people hate smoke so much, you'd think smoke-free bars would flourish without laws forcing the issue. People should have a choice, both on the consumer side and the employee/employer side

Hmm dont we live in a Democracy?????

Everyone keeps claiming we live in one...




Since this is not federal level... its a local election.. its a winner with 50.000000001%

[skydyvr 0]

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Since this is not federal level...

. . . yet.

. . =(_8^(1)

[mnealtx 0]

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If people hate smoke so much, you'd think smoke-free bars would flourish without laws forcing the issue. People should have a choice, both on the consumer side and the employee/employer side

Hmm dont we live in a Democracy?????

Everyone keeps claiming we live in one...




Since this is not federal level... its a local election.. its a winner with 50.000000001%

Actually, no...it's a representative republic... at least at the federal level... but you knew that already, didn't ya?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NelKel 0]

People who smoke have rights also. Why don't all of you non smokers who want to make laws go to a cigar bar and hold up picket signs.

When your finished you can go to the nearest refinery and picket there also, then you can go to the high way and picket along with the green peace for global warming. Also lets not forget about turbine engines and the fumes they present, so don't forget to picket your local DZ for polution. You should all ban the t-shirts that say "I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning". Have any of you seen the space shuttle take off? Yeah picket that also cuz that a lot of smoke.

In the end it all smoke and mirrors. If you don't want to be in a smoke fill bar, STAY HOME where it is safe, untill you start thinking about mold.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[Amazon 7]

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Since this is not federal level... its a local election.. its a winner with 50.000000001%

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Actually, no...it's a representative republic... at least at the federal level... but you knew that already, didn't ya?

Can we have a big ole DUH here...I guess you did not get the LOCAL LEVEL.. so at least THAT is still a democracy... until Shrubco declares martial law.

[TheAnvil 0]

Oh, I have more than a hammer. I have a zester, whisk, ladle, eggbeater, mixer, circular saw, electric drill, manual drill, a plethora of screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, socket sets, and what have you.

I'm a handy JACKASS.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[mnealtx 0]

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Since this is not federal level... its a local election.. its a winner with 50.000000001%

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Actually, no...it's a representative republic... at least at the federal level... but you knew that already, didn't ya?

Can we have a big ole DUH here...I guess you did not get the LOCAL LEVEL.. so at least THAT is still a democracy... until Shrubco declares martial law.

Actually, I was answering THIS part of your post...

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Hmm dont we live in a Democracy?????

Everyone keeps claiming we live in one...

As for the

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until Shrubco declares martial law.

I'll answer from the playbook of that darling of the Left, the Brady bunch (and their adherents)...

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It must be terrible to have to live in such fear...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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It must be terrible to have to live in such fear...

Well since I did not vote for the Shrub.. I guess I am not in fear....but a WHOLE lot of people certainly voted for him out of fear...You can fool some of the people some of the time..... or you can fool ... the fools far more easily.

[champu 1]

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Oh, I have more than a hammer. I have a zester, whisk, ladle, eggbeater, mixer, circular saw, electric drill, manual drill, a plethora of screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, socket sets, and what have you.

Hmm... sounds like you're preparing to build a gingerbread house.

Which is fine, I'm all for it, but keep your damn hands off Hansel and Gretel.

[billvon 3,119]

>Good argument, except that smoking in a bar is a consumer driven want . . .

as is a cheap skydive. Consumers do not want to pay lots of money, so a DZO who skimps on aircraft maintenance, reserve repacks, AADs and instructor ratings to give customers a cheaper tandem - is giving them exactly what they ask for.

Yet we now know that that's not such a good idea.

[rhys 0]

Most definately!!!

I am a smoker! smoking has been banned in all workplaces in new zealand for over a year now.

When they announced it, i thought myself and all the other smokers would be pissed off but actually i like the idea! I smoke far less now and don't have sore throats in the morning, my clothes are wearable the next day.


There used to be people that were social smokers and only smoked when they went out(until nicotine addiction consumed them), they don't bother going outside and simply don't smoke anymore.

less smokers = less tax dollars spent on health.

The poor bar tenders that get the shit blown in thier faces, even if they are smokers they hate it.

it is amazing how clean the air is in bars now there is no smoking here.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix