E85

[warpedskydiver 0]

I found several links to E85 facts and the conversions needed to run it in older cars.


Is anyone else here interested in this as well?

Is there anyone that has done it yet?

http://xcelplus.com/e85/article.htm


Alternative Fuel Gas Stations - including E85
E85, Ethanol & Alternative Fuel Cars
E85 Fuel Economy Study
E85 Gas Stations
EPA Presentation
EPA Technical Paper Summarized in EPA Presentation.
FlexTek E85 Aftermarket Conversion Kit The Brazilian after-market E85 Conversion Kit (4, 6, 8 cylinder engines.) A growing list of resellers in the United States is available on the website. (Commercial Website; sells the FlexTek conversion kits.)
How To Run Your Car On Alcohol Fuel - A 1982 book, now published online, with information on converting gasoline cars to use ethanol. (Commercial Website)
Make Your Own E85 - Using the late Robert Warren's Still Design (A Semi-Commercial Website; sells plans for a still design capable of providing high proof ethanol. Lots of good ethanol and E85 information available here for free, too.)
National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition
Nebraska Ethanol Board - Ethanol Facts: E85
Purdue University Corn Grits Dessicant - Patented method of drying fuel ethanol in a gaseous state, known by its trademark of PolySieve, discovered in 1979.
Specialty E85 Forum on E85 fuel - Where many of the authors of this Wikipedia article discuss details of this article. This article is also the defacto FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for this specialty E85 Forum.
Still for Providing Fuel - Still design (non-commercial) that can provide high-proof ethanol at low cost, a necessary step in making your own E85 fuel.
USDA Ethanol Production Cost Reduction Announcement - US Government Tax Subsidy to End in 2007


http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/tvwb/archive.cgi

[Misternatural 0]

Hell yes! I went to Auto zone today to grill the emplyees about conversion kits and they said " nope we dont carry any of those parts, can't help ya. Mother fathers! soon people are going to be scrambling for that stuff. Some smart fucker is going to start a retail store for conversion kits. I garrrontee!

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Hell yes! I went to Auto zone today to grill the emplyees about conversion kits and they said " nope we dont carry any of those parts, can't help ya. Mother fathers! soon people are going to be scrambling for that stuff. Some smart fucker is going to start a retail store for conversion kits. I garrrontee!

http://www.abcesso.com/

This seems to make sense

[jumpinfarmer 0]

We just need to make more of it faster. Also all the gasoline engines in the US need to made to run on E-85 or regular gas.

Every month the US sets a new ethanol production record. This probably won't stop for a long time. If you have money to invest in something invest in ethanol production.

[billvon 3,120]

>Also all the gasoline engines in the US need to made to run on E-85 or regular gas.

I would add that all will currently run on E10 and most will run on E50 right now.

[SpeedRacer 1]

It takes energy to make & refine biodiesel and ethanol. But ethanol also takes distillation. So I'm wondering if the efficiency of using biodiesel is better than ethanol.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[billvon 3,120]

>So I'm wondering if the efficiency of using biodiesel is better than ethanol.

Per what? Per gallon? Per acre? You can get about 600 gallons of biodiesel per acre per year with palm-oil crops, and about 900-1200 gallons of ethanol per acre per year with sugarcane or Jerusalem artichokes. Biodiesel gives you more energy per gallon of fuel, but that's partly because diesel engines are more efficient to begin with. Biodiesel is less energy intensive to make, partly because many biodiesel crops are nitrogen-fixing and partly because there's no fermentation step.

[shropshire 0]

Doesnt help if you dont have enough diesel cars to make use of it.... and that would take a really big inventory change over in America.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Misternatural 0]

It seems that my enthusiasm for this has gotten ahead of reality a bit. (what a shock) Anyway, my research and determination to get the ball rolling as far as retail stores go is revealing some things.
First of all manufacturers may void the vehicles warrantee if these mods are made by anyone but an "authorized dealer" and since the auto industry is so entrenched with the oil industry its not likely they will look the other way. Auto parts dealers simply a subsidiary of the auto industry so what the manufacturer says goes. It will take a while for manufacturers to create the kit mods for their "Authorized dealers" to install & they may never do it despite pressure from society. Another form of obsolescence: "Your car is now worthless unless you buy a NEW flex fuel vehicle! Get to your dealer while the deals are hot"

To this of course I say F.U. I am going to do it anyway,thats my wallet we are talking about at the pump. My warrantee is long gone and I like "old car smell". Power to the internet!

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[warpedskydiver 0]

Too Bad Nitromethane is expensive

Woohoo!!! wanna see something go fast?...build a Nitro Motor!

1/2" fuel lines too!

[Misternatural 0]

Ya mon,
I have been following the stock market with this one, check out Archer Daniels Midland, ticker ADM. This company is spearheading ethanol production world wide & opening new plants accross the states. They are on it! It went from 17 last year to 29 per share when Bush opened his mouth on national TV with his state of the union address with regard to ethanol. Today it is at 36!!!(I sold it already regretfully)
One caviat, they grow corn which is tied to Monsanto, a company known for "agro terrorism". If you think pesticides were a big issue for food production then think of what they'll do with corn crops to be eaten only by cars. Enter GMO's bigtime, then "Enter Sandman".

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[TheAnvil 0]

That's pretty cool. Didn't know that.

I like the biodiesel and ethanol as alternative fuels.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[niu 0]

Quote

Too Bad Nitromethane is expensive

Woohoo!!! wanna see something go fast?...build a Nitro Motor!

1/2" fuel lines too!

Don`t plan any long trips,though.
Just a quarter of a mile or so.

• Quote

[Misternatural 0]

The principal feedstock for biodiesel (another ADM product) currently is canola oil which is actually from a mustard plant second is soybean. From what I have seen soy actually has a lower oil yield, much like corn. Canola has a bad rap as well unfortunately due to the practices of Monsanto corp who hold many of the GMO patents on the key varieties. There are GMO free varieties of all of these crops, it will be a bloody fight in congress to see who wins out.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[jumpinfarmer 0]

What do you have against GMO crops? They have allowed us to produce more on less land with far less use of pesticide. With some of the GMO tech. it is also much easier to produce corn and beans using minimum tillage and no-till which saves fuel and almost eliminates soil erosion.

Oh and by the way ADM does not grow anything, they just buy grain for processing.

And I've owned it since it was around $9.

[billvon 3,120]

There are a lot of reasons that ethanol is a very good idea for motor fuel:

-it is potentially a more powerful fuel (smaller engines, more power)
-it's cleaner
-it's made in the US
-it does not increase CO2 in the atmosphere

Sadly (or perhaps inevitably) the only reason it's going to make it in the US is shown below.

[penniless 0]

Quote

Too Bad Nitromethane is expensive

Woohoo!!! wanna see something go fast?...build a Nitro Motor!

1/2" fuel lines too!

It will go fast, but not for long. Top fuel dragster engines are rebuilt after every meet.

Do you remember tetra-nitromethane? Incredible power, toxic as hell, melted engines, eventually banned.

[Kennedy 0]

At least you can find alternative fuels near you. I'm living in the middle of corn country right now, and there isn't a station in sight carrying anything other than good old fashioned gasoline. Trust me, I'd love to have a car that can run on E85 or another new fuel, but not without anyhting to support it.

The problem is that we're still in the growing pains stage. Once we have some infrastucture, and dedicated vehicles (rather than either or vehicles) then I''ll get in line. Until then I just need a smaller junker that gets better gas mileage. (will it be "veggie-mileage" in the future? alci-mileage?)

I seem to recall reading that E85 would be better if we had cars that ran on just E85, rather than gas or E85 or a mix. Why is that?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[warpedskydiver 0]

compression ratio would be higher and the fuel delivery system for a alcohol motor would use larger orifices, and timing can be advanced a bit more

I can't even tell you about newer cars on E85 except that they use gasoline in order to achieve cold starts and to cut down a bit on the O2 levels at the sensor and help get the catalytic converter up to temp quicker.

[Kennedy 0]

Eh, I know bio-diesel has similar problems on cold days. Needs kerosene and or fuel additives to prevent gelling/freezing. Orifaces? As in where the cylinder cycles? OK, I just wasn;'t sure on the facts. I've seen a lot of "news" on new fuels, very little in the way of facts.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[warpedskydiver 0]

as in larger injectors and or jetting

[billvon 3,120]

>I can't even tell you about newer cars on E85 except that they use
> gasoline in order to achieve cold starts and to cut down a bit on the
> O2 levels at the sensor and help get the catalytic converter up to
> temp quicker.

Flex-fuel vehicles use E85 without a 'start tank' for gasoline. The remaining 10-15% gasoline seems to do a good job easing cold-start problems. About the only system I know of that needs a dedicated start/stop tank are straight veggie oil conversions. They need to be stopped or started on conventional diesel (or biodiesel) until the engine/fuel system is warm, then they switch over to straight vegetable oil.