Up to 2.5 Millions Times a Year Victims Use Guns to Defend Themselves

[rushmc 23]

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060418/NEWS01/604180335/1006

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Mike111 0]

Thats the problem with legalising firearms.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Thats the problem with legalising firearms.

Well don't live here then...the idea this is crazy is just that CRAZY...would you rather be a victim?

[rushmc 23]

Did you read the article??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Did you read the article??

That would help wouldn't it?

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[TheAnvil 0]

Now, now, now - don't be insensitive! Facts that don't comport with the opinions of gun control advocates must be suppressed and ignored at all times! Didn't you get the memo?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Zipp0 1]

A couple months ago at my local Wal Mart, an employee was saved from a psycho who was stabbing him repeatedly by a gentleman with a concealed carry permit, and of course, a gun. He had to shoot the assailant, who suffered only a minor wound to the shoulder. The victim suffered stabs to his arms, which he was using to fend off the attacker. As yet, no charges have been filed against the shooter.

I am ALL FOR taking guns from criminals.

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Richards 0]

I would always advocate using common sense to avoid trouble (it works 99% of the time) but I must admit that if a few thugs were following me late at night and sizing me up I would feel a lot more comfortable having the means to gain the upper hand if they turned out to be part of the other 1 %.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[billvon 3,119]

>I would always advocate using common sense to avoid trouble (it works 99% of the time) . . .

Yep, that's the key. The combination of common sense and a weapon is a very good one. Unfortunately, some people use weapons as a replacement for common sense.

[JohnRich 4]

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The combination of common sense and a weapon is a very good one. Unfortunately, some people use weapons as a replacement for common sense.

Unfortunately, some people think that common sense is all that is necessary to protect themselves.

[billvon 3,119]

>some people think that common sense is all that is necessary to
>protect themselves.

You are far better off with common sense than with a weapon and no common sense. Indeed, most people go their entire lives without needing anything beyond their own brain to keep them safe. On the other hand, the combination of a gun and a guy with no common sense results can be spectacularly bad.

Of course, in many cases, the combination of both is even better.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Indeed, most people go their entire lives without needing anything beyond their own brain to keep them safe. On the other hand, the combination of a gun and a guy with no common sense results can be spectacularly bad.

the element of luck applies to both, making this statement virtually worthless.

[billvon 3,119]

>the element of luck applies to both, making this statement virtually worthless.

Nope. It's echoed all the time in the AAD threads. It's been shown that a skydiver with no common sense and an AAD is more likely to get hurt or killed than a skydiver with common sense and no AAD - even though there are elements of luck in both.

[kelpdiver 2]

the worthlessness of the statement lies in that you make no indication or support of likelihoods. Allowing you to use individual anecdotes to 'prove' said claim, while really saying nothing at all.

Most people go through life without facing such a situation by simple good fortune, not because they actively use some great level of intelligence to avoid it.

[Nightingale 0]

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>some people think that common sense is all that is necessary to
>protect themselves.

You are far better off with common sense than with a weapon and no common sense. Indeed, most people go their entire lives without needing anything beyond their own brain to keep them safe. On the other hand, the combination of a gun and a guy with no common sense results can be spectacularly bad.

Of course, in many cases, the combination of both is even better.

In my experience, people who go their entire lives without needing anything beyond their own common sense also have a pretty heavy dose of dumb luck. An example: I was out with a guy who was a friend of a friend of a friend and I'd been set up on basically a blind date about four years ago. We were shooting pool, and he put something in my drink. Common sense: I didn't know this person, so we met at a public place and took separate cars and he didn't know where I lived. Dumb luck: I saw him put the stuff in my drink in a reflection in the window while I was setting up my pool shot. I made an excuse and left.

When I was teaching karate, I saw so many people come through the studio because something had happened to them, and many of them did everything right but were victims anyway. Common sense isn't going to stop you from walking into a bank in the middle of a robbery or from being injured, raped or killed by an intruder in your home.

Common sense is a passive, preventative protection. it's simply a part of your life. Martial arts and weapons are active, reactive protection. They both have their function and are in no way interchangable. Common sense prevents most shit from happening, and martial arts and weapons help you deal with shit that is happening anyway.

[billvon 3,119]

>Most people go through life without facing such a situation by simple
> good fortune, not because they actively use some great level of
> intelligence to avoid it.

Most people do not ignore the neighborhoods they choose to live in, send their kids to school in, or park their cars in. Most people are aware of what dangerous situations look like, and thus avoid walking late at night in certain parts of the city, avoid bars where fights break out, and avoid situations that might lead to them being raped or attacked.

Most people are not as clueless as you imply, in other words. Which is why most of them avoid violence. Personal safety is not an accident, nor is it the result of carrying a weapon (although it can surely help.)

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Most people go through life without facing such a situation by simple
> good fortune,

Most people are not as clueless as you imply, in other words. Which is why most of them avoid violence.

And your proof that it is by active intelligence rather than the low frequency of such bad events?

So far you've managed to put out that intelligent people are safer than dumb ones, with or without guns. That's not exactly groundbreaking stuff, bordering on tautology. You've not supported anything about common sense versus weaponry.

[billvon 3,119]

>So far you've managed to put out that intelligent people are
>safer than dumb ones, with or without guns.

I have said nothing of the sort! I have a friend who is quite smart - he runs his own business, has made millions, maintains all their IT equipment himself, etc etc. He doesn't have a lot of common sense, though. He is one of the people I know who, if he had a gun, I would avoid.

A former roommate of mine told everyone who would listen that he was the second smartest student in the country he was from. (Which he was, based on grades and standardized tests.) No common sense. He was always walking into things and making sorts dumb decisions concerning money and housing.

Common sense does not equal intelligence.

>You've not supported anything about common sense versus weaponry.

That's a silly statement. There is no "versus" here. It's like saying that RSL's work well at ensuring reserve deployments after a cutaway, and that AAD's help save your life when you forget to pull - then having someone ask you "why are you pushing RSL's over AAD's?"

Personally, given the choice, I'd much rather have common sense than a gun. I'm sure you would too. (Although for some situations, having both is the ticket.)

[kelpdiver 2]

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Personally, given the choice, I'd much rather have common sense than a gun. I'm sure you would too. (Although for some situations, having both is the ticket.)

You can't buy or develop common sense. You got it or you don't.

And head to head, the gun always beats common sense (or karate). If you are insuccesful in avoiding the event, you're done. And that was John's claim, which you jumped all over.

So in Calfornia, we'll continue to play the loser's lottery - if our senses (or as I argue, luck) don't pan out, we pay some price. Hopefully just a wallet. Then we can make the futile call to the police.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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>the element of luck applies to both, making this statement virtually worthless.

Nope. It's echoed all the time in the AAD threads. It's been shown that a skydiver with no common sense and an AAD is more likely to get hurt or killed than a skydiver with common sense and no AAD - even though there are elements of luck in both.

There is no such thing as luck and if you believe there is lets see the Data!

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Personally, given the choice, I'd much rather have common sense than a gun. I'm sure you would too. (Although for some situations, having both is the ticket.)

You can't buy or develop common sense. You got it or you don't.

And head to head, the gun always beats common sense (or karate). If you are insuccesful in avoiding the event, you're done. And that was John's claim, which you jumped all over.

So in Calfornia, we'll continue to play the loser's lottery - if our senses (or as I argue, luck) don't pan out, we pay some price. Hopefully just a wallet. Then we can make the futile call to the police.

Or the Police can call your next of kin

[JohnRich 4]

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>the element of luck applies to both, making this statement virtually worthless.

Nope. It's echoed all the time in the AAD threads. It's been shown that a skydiver with no common sense and an AAD is more likely to get hurt or killed than a skydiver with common sense and no AAD - even though there are elements of luck in both.

Your analogy of crime vs. skydiving is invalid. The skydiver is almost entirely in charge of his own fate. A crime victim, on the other hand, has his fate in the hands of others over whom he has no control. And since crime can strike anyone, anywhere, at any time - whether or not you become a victim is largely a matter of "luck".

[Nightingale 0]

I got so many people (women in particular) that came to karate class because something had already happened. Mostly bright people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or intelligent people that made one stupid decision that turned out very badly. These people weren't morons, and for the most part, weren't lacking in common sense. We get away with a lot of stupid mistakes in our lives. It's dumb luck that someone wasn't there to take advantage of our own mistakes.

[Richards 0]

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These people weren't morons, and for the most part, weren't lacking in common sense. We get away with a lot of stupid mistakes in our lives. It's dumb luck that someone wasn't there to take advantage of our own mistakes.