What rights?

[hobbes4star 0]

I read an amazing story earlier this week. It seems this bunch of beaners wanted to take a day off of work from a meatpacking plant in Detroit so they could attend a protest of immigration reform. The manager of the plant told them that if they skipped work they were going to get sacked. But I guess they didn't believe him, because they all skipped work and they all got sacked. Fifteen of them.
Now here's the fun part. Most of them were illegal
immigrants and now they have started working with some Detroit activist to get their jobs back saying they were fired unjustifiably!
Before I go any further, let me just point out that being an illegal immigrant is justification by itself for
termination since it is against the law to hire criminals.
The plant manager said that as far as the company knew, the workers were documented, but an eployment agency does the actual hiring. He said the workers had been told, "written and verbally," on the Friday before the protests that their attendance was mandatory on the day of the protest. Elena Herrada, the activist who is trying to help the women get their jobs back, say they were fired, "for standing up for their rights." Once again, my question is, what rights?
Many of the workers had been employed at the plant for several years. Most have children and are worried about supporting their families. "It was not fair,'" said Mercedes, a 31-year-old Detroit woman who attended the rally and was fired. "We went to fight for our rights."
But I don't think Mercedes has a clear understanding of her rights. Or maybe she does. Since Mercedes is undocumented she asked that her last name not be used.
So she wants rights, but only on an anonymous basis. Perhaps she'd like her paychecks made out to cash. And when she applies for state-funded medical benefits she can write Mercedes X on the application.
And I have another issue. If you are an illegal immigrant, and you have children you have to support, and you are lucky enough to land a gig that keeps your litter in tortillas and frijoles, why are you going to draw attention to yourself to the risk of getting sacked? Especially if your boss tells you that you are going to get sacked.
Even if you are an American, and your boss tells you, "You have to be at work tomorrow or you're going to get sacked," and you don't show up to work....you're going to get sacked. And it would be no one's God damned fault except your own.
So where does this infringement of rights come into play?

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[skydyvr 0]

Why refer to them as "beaners"?

. . =(_8^(1)

[IanHarrop 42]

I need help understanding something with regard to employers and non-documented workers/illegal-immigrants.

In this story the employers claims to not have know these workers were illegal, but aren't employers supposed to deduct taxes from workers pay and submit that to the government? If the workers are illegal how does the employer deduct taxes?

There's probably some simple answer to this, but I have this feeling that the employers are often a big part of the problem.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[ViperPilot 0]

Agreed on all of that...it's amazing how every one thinks they deserve so much. I hope there's not some bullshit deal that forces the employer to take them back...Mercedes can suck it.

[wmw999 2,586]

Undocumented workers sometimes have fake IDs, including fake social security cards. Which means that if their employers are paying into the government, that money goes towards the general SS fund, because that guy is not going to get any benefit from it. It's wrong to say that they don't pay taxes.

For income taxes, some people claim a large number of dependents, which reduces their witholding to the negligible.

Some jobs are paid in cash. There, you trust that the person being paid in cash will go to the trouble of doing their taxes accurately. I'm figuring that most cash-paid low-level employees (which would include day laborers) are, um, less than entirely accurate.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Richards 0]

What don't you get? Don't you realize that it is the obligation of all non special interest group members to accomodate people who are members of special interest groups regardless of the cost? We owe everyone who is part of a marginalized group because....well because. I hope you were not expecting the "dog to wag the tail". That would make way too much sense.

Like yourself, I frequently fail to understand how my sole reason for existing is to accomodate people who are part of special groups.

Dinosaurs like us are on the path to extinction.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Andy9o8 2]

I agree with your essential points. But, having said that, I have to tell you, you dilute the effect of your message with your choice of rhetoric. As skydvr said, "why refer to them as 'beaners'? And I ask, why use the term, "keeps your litter in tortillas and frijoles"? Whether it's your intent or not, you leave yourself open to the inference that at least some of your agenda is based on factors other than simple fairness.

[sfzombie13 324]

the jobs that pay in cash to which you're referring is nothing more than what is called 1099 fraud. if you are contract labor, then you're employer gives you a 1099 to pay your own taxes. if not, then you get a w-2 and taxes withheld for you. this is a large problem for constuction workers like myself especially. i used to be one, having worked for over five years, and given my employers wrong ssn's. then i paid no taxes at all, there was no trail to my ssn and any income. when you are young and stupid, you do stupid things. but i lost out on five years of ss benifits and ended up hurting myself unknowingly. illegal immigration is a very large problem in the us, and in the current state of politics, looks like it will get worse. how can a union carpenter making $24 an hour with benifits compete with an illegal immigrant making $6 without benefits? that is the reason that in wv there are almost no union carpenters in the residential sector.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[skydyvr 0]

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And I ask, why use the term, "keeps your litter in tortillas and frijoles"?

Right on. My former wife is half Mexican and half Sioux Indian. She's a great person, and to have her described as a "beaner" sounds as racist as any other derogatory terms in use these days.

. . =(_8^(1)

[warpedskydiver 0]

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And I ask, why use the term, "keeps your litter in tortillas and frijoles"?

Right on. My former wife is half Mexican and half Sioux Indian. She's a great person, and to have her described as a "beaner" sounds as racist as any other derogatory terms in use these days.

I can see both sides in this, but I must also point out your wife is not an illegal alien

[Andy9o8 2]

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I can see both sides in this, but I must also point out your wife is not an illegal alien

...which has absolutely ZERO to do with the point skydvr & I were making.

[Richards 0]

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I can see both sides in this, but I must also point out your wife is not an illegal alien

...which has absolutely ZERO to do with the point skydvr & I were making.

Agreed. In spirit I agree with his frustration regarding the sense of entitlement that the illegals seem to have. That said, comments like "beaners, frijoles and tortillas...etc" do imply something more of a dislike for certain cultures than merely a dislike of the behaviour.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[narcimund 0]

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[more of a dislike for certain cultures than merely a dislike of the behaviour.

Bingo! Man, this is amazingly close to why the right-wingers on dropzone.com are so frightening and offensive. They claim (and probably believe) they're acting from principle but it's so obvious their principles are largely excuses to indulge their antagonistic gut instincts.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Richards 0]

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Bingo! Man, this is amazingly close to why the right-wingers on dropzone.com are so frightening and offensive. They claim (and probably believe) they're acting from principle but it's so obvious their principles are largely excuses to indulge their antagonistic gut instincts.

[narcimund 0]

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I hope you mean " amazingly close to why some of the right-wingers on dropzone.com"

Yes, strictly speaking, you're exactly right. I did not intend to include everyone on the righthand side of the thought-stifling one-dimensional political spectrum.

The subset I was referring to are fairly easy to spot. I'll refrain from naming them out of politeness but anyone with their eyes open will have no problem identifying them.

The wackos on the other side of the thought-stifling one-dimensional political spectrum are just as wacky, but at least their true motives don't seem to be racial and sexual bigotry.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[ahegeman 0]

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The wackos on the other side of the thought-stifling one-dimensional political spectrum are just as wacky, but at least their true motives don't seem to be racial and sexual bigotry.

You should check out the many comments often made about Condoleeza Rice, JC Watts, Colin Powell and other black Republicans, then reconsider. Many far lefties apparently only like blacks as long as they stay on the Democratic plantation.

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[narcimund 0]

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The wackos on the other side of the thought-stifling one-dimensional political spectrum are just as wacky, but at least their true motives don't seem to be racial and sexual bigotry.

You should check out the many comments often made about Condoleeza Rice, JC Watts, Colin Powell and other black Republicans, then reconsider. Many far lefties apparently only like blacks as long as they stay on the Democratic plantation.

I've never seen any racist comments against those people. Can you direct me to some?

I WAS talking about people on dropzone specifically, but I'd love to see them from any source.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

Radio Host slurs Rice:
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/


This one is especially nice.. Kwafume says the white radio jock calling Rice "Aunt Jemima" is bad... but black people calling Steele an "Uncle Tom" or "Oreo" is just fine... hypocrite!!
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Radio Host slurs Rice:
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/

This one is especially nice.. Kwafume says the white radio jock calling Rice "Aunt Jemima" is bad... but black people calling Steele an "Uncle Tom" or "Oreo" is just fine... hypocrite!!
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/

Bizarre. That story is either frighteningly badly written or it's intentionally unreadable. It claims lots of unattributed bad things were said but none of the quotes actually support any of it.

Nobody named "Kwafume" is referenced in the article at all. Do you mean Mfume? If so, he didn't say anything about either "aunt jemima" OR "uncle tom". Maybe you meant Thomas Miller who DID defend saying "uncle tom". Or maybe you're just sort of blurring everyone in the article together into one fuzzy bad guy.

In fact, while it's easy to come away from this story FEELING that something racist has been said, honestly I can't find much when I read the quotes. It's a bunch of worrisome "somebody said something" claims followed by quotes that don't support much at all.

Is this the sort of crap the Washington Times usually writes?

And do you have any other examples? This one's mediocre at best.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

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Radio Host slurs Rice:
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/

This one is especially nice.. Kwafume says the white radio jock calling Rice "Aunt Jemima" is bad... but black people calling Steele an "Uncle Tom" or "Oreo" is just fine... hypocrite!!
http://sayanythingblog.com/2005/11/02/dems_in_maryland_racist_attacks_aok/

Bizarre. That story is either frighteningly badly written or it's intentionally unreadable. It claims lots of unattributed bad things were said but none of the quotes actually support any of it.

Nobody named "Kwafume" is referenced in the article at all. Do you mean Mfume? If so, he didn't say anything about either "aunt jemima" OR "uncle tom". Maybe you meant Thomas Miller who DID defend saying "uncle tom". Or maybe you're just sort of blurring everyone in the article together into one fuzzy bad guy.

In fact, while it's easy to come away from this story FEELING that something racist has been said, honestly I can't find much when I read the quotes. It's a bunch of worrisome "somebody said something" claims followed by quotes that don't support much at all.

Is this the sort of crap the Washington Times usually writes?

And do you have any other examples? This one's mediocre at best.

Yes, Mfume - (typo was my mistake, thanks for the correction) - or his spokesman, anyway, seems to think it's business as usual....which I suppose it is, for the 'party of tolerance'....

Here's one from CNN... I'm sure that's more than acceptable enough for your fine sensibilities.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/10/15/belafonte.powell/

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Yes, Mfume - (typo was my mistake, thanks for the correction) - or his spokesman, anyway, seems to think it's business as usual....which I suppose it is, for the 'party of tolerance'....

Here's one from CNN... I'm sure that's more than acceptable enough for your fine sensibilities.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/10/15/belafonte.powell/

You're a far cry from justifying the claim that racism is "business as usual" for a whole party. So far you've come up with one trashy editorial which is trying to imply racism but basically can't find much so it makes a bunch of shit up.

This second article is pretty offensive, but it's a SINGER for god's sake. He stands on stage and croons tunes for a share of the box office. What the hell does this have to do with a political party?

And that's just goofy poking at my "sensibilities" when I'm reading and analyzing your sources to see if they actually say what you claim they say. Do you want me to stop doing that and just follow along with whatever crap newspapers come up with? Or maybe only if they say crap which supports your position.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

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This second article is pretty offensive, but it's a SINGER for god's sake. He stands on stage and croons tunes for a share of the box office. What the hell does this have to do with a political party?

I supposed you missed his appearance at McKinney's press conference, then?

As for poking at your sensibilities... you did say the other story was "crap"... so I figured an example from CNN would be acceptable to you - was I mistaken?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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I supposed you missed his appearance at McKinney's press conference, then?

Of COURSE I missed his whatever appearance you're talking about. I don't follow entertainers around. What are you talking about? (Ugh, do I care enough to ask?)

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As for poking at your sensibilities... you did say the other story was "crap"... so I figured an example from CNN would be acceptable to you - was I mistaken?

Very much mistaken. I don't care if God hisself comes down and burps a crap editorial to the tune of Happy Birthday. I don't give anyone credit for anything by virtue of their position. I was complaining that the article was crap, not because of who published it but because it was CRAP.

You (and others) keep repeating an inflamatory claim that an entire party is based on massive, systematic, open racism. So far you've come up with a reject from a journalism school's Freshman Partisan Editorial class and a stage singer.

Can you do a little better?

Ugh.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

Outside of McKinney, there's not much for glaring examples, sorry. You'll be able to find plenty of support of it in the liberal blogosphere, though.

You know...sort of how all right-wingers are "frightening and offensive", I believe the quote was?

I find a party that supports making an entire class of people into mindless drones sucking off the government's welfare tit to be much more frightening...but that's just me, I guess.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

This might be what you are looking for.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051101-104932-4054r.htm

On top of being blatantly racist in Maryland, notice the weak attempts to justify their stupidity. To deny the racism involved adds another layer of insult to a fine man like Steele.