Al Qaeda Leaving Iraq in Defeat

[Gravitymaster 0]

Zarqawi, al Qaeda are heading out, U.S. general says
By Sharon Behn
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 14, 2006


Al Qaeda in Iraq and its presumed leader, Abu Musab Zarqawi, have conceded strategic defeat and are on their way out of the country, a top U.S. military official contended yesterday.

The group's failure to disrupt national elections and a constitutional referendum last year "was a tactical admission by Zarqawi that their strategy had failed," said Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, who commands the XVIII Airborne Corps.

"They no longer view Iraq as fertile ground to establish a caliphate and as a place to conduct international terrorism," he said in an address at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Gen. Vines' statement came as news broke that coalition and Iraqi forces had killed an associate of Osama bin Laden's during an early morning raid near Abu Ghraib about two weeks ago.

Rafid Ibrahim Fattah aka Abu Umar al Kurdi served as a liaison between terrorist networks and was linked to Taliban members in Afghanistan, Pakistani-based extremists and other senior al Qaeda leaders, the military said yesterday.

In the past six months, al Kurdi had worked as a terrorist cell leader in Baqouba. Prior to that, he had traveled extensively Pakistan, Iran and Iraq and formed a relationship with al Qaeda senior leaders in 1999 while in Afghanistan.

He also had ties with the Muslim Brotherhood, formed while he was in Iran and Pakistan, and joined the jihad in Afghanistan in 1989, the military said. He was killed March 27.

Gen. Vines said the foreign terrorists had made a strategic mistake when they tried to intimidate and deny Iraqis a way to vote.

"I believe Zarqawi discredited himself with the Iraqi people because of his willingness to slaughter Iraqi people," he said.

Huthayafa Azzam, whose father was seen as a political mentor of bin Laden, told reporters in Jordan in early April that Zarqawi had been replaced as head of the terrorist fight in Iraq in an effort to put an Iraqi at the head of the organization.

Azzam said Zarqawi had "made many political mistakes," including excessive violence and the bombing last November of a Jordanian hotel, and as a result was being "confined to military action."

Gen. Vines, who from January 2005 to January 2006 led all coalition forces in Iraq, did not comment on those reports. But he did caution that although the foreign extremists were leaving Iraq "looking for more fertile ground," they could come back.

"The question now is what kind of government is going to be formed and is it going to be credible," he said, acknowledging that Iran had significant influence over Iraq's religious Shi'ite population.

"Iran wants us out, but not too soon -- after a Shi'ite government friendly to Iran is established," Gen. Vines said. "Iran's view is that the current government is not strong enough, and if we pulled out now, there would be a low-level civil war."


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[Mike111 0]

well let's hope this is the generally the case - although im sure a general wouldn't risk saying they had won for fear of being return if the fight continued.

That would be humiliating.

[SpeedRacer 1]

well I hope there's some truth to this.

The thing I'm wondering is: Is Abu al Zarqawi just rolling over & accepting this???

I kind of thought that he was a thug with his own followers & running his own show. Who is in a position to tell him to stand down, such that he would actually obey?

Speed Racer
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[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

well I hope there's some truth to this.

The thing I'm wondering is: Is Abu al Zarqawi just rolling over & accepting this???

I kind of thought that he was a thug with his own followers & running his own show. Who is in a position to tell him to stand down, such that he would actually obey?

Several months ago there was a report that Zarqwai had been demoted due to his ineffectiveness politically. It may be that his successor fared no better. My guess is Bin Laden would make this decision if he is still alive.

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[SpeedRacer 1]

My impression was that the "Al Quaeda in Iraq" group was running itself, & only receiving some support, but not management, from Osama's central group. Al Quaeda means "the base", and it provides support for terrorist groups around the world, but it doesn't seem to manage each group. The groups seem to be self-sufficient.

When Zawahri sent that letter to Zarqawi telling him to cool it with the civilian casualties, Zarqawi apparently ignored him. It seemed that Zarqawi was intent to run his own show.

The whole thing is kind of like a Mafia drama.

Speed Racer
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[Andy9o8 2]

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Al Qaeda in Iraq and its presumed leader, Abu Musab Zarqawi, have conceded strategic defeat and are on their way out of the country, a top U.S. military official contended yesterday.

A moderate's perspective:
I'm old enough to remember the generals on the ground and in the Pentagon telling us "we see the light at the end of the tunnel" in Vietnam. And, of course, it turned out not to be.
Yes, I know: the wars are different, the countries are different and the terrain is different. But the process of public relations, just as with history, often tends to repeat itself. So forgive me if I view this current "top military official's" statements through the lens of history. And so I'm skeptical. Oh, I'm willing to wait and see, but in the meantime, I'm skeptical...because we really have heard it all before.

[likearock 2]

Very doubtful. You have to think that the a lot of the recent anti-Shia attacks, particularly the ones on the sacred shrines, are the work of outsiders and in particular, al Zarqawi. The legitimate Iraqi Sunnis may be part of the insurgency but they're not completely suicidal.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Al Qaeda in Iraq and its presumed leader, Abu Musab Zarqawi, have conceded strategic defeat and are on their way out of the country, a top U.S. military official contended yesterday.

A moderate's perspective:
I'm old enough to remember the generals on the ground and in the Pentagon telling us "we see the light at the end of the tunnel" in Vietnam. And, of course, it turned out not to be.
Yes, I know: the wars are different, the countries are different and the terrain is different. But the process of public relations, just as with history, often tends to repeat itself. So forgive me if I view this current "top military official's" statements through the lens of history. And so I'm skeptical. Oh, I'm willing to wait and see, but in the meantime, I'm skeptical...because we really have heard it all before.

I don't disagree with you at all. I'm also not willing to completely discount the possibility this is true. Something is going to have to give in Iraq, and it's going to have to happen soon.

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[ExAFO 0]

Quote

Zarqawi, al Qaeda are heading out, U.S. general says
By Sharon Behn
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 14, 2006


Al Qaeda in Iraq and its presumed leader, Abu Musab Zarqawi, have conceded strategic defeat and are on their way out of the country, a top U.S. military official contended yesterday.
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Quote

"They are not near Baghdad. Don't believe them.... They said they entered with... tanks in the middle of the capital. They claim that they - I tell you, I... that this speech is too far from the reality. It is a part of this sickness of their plan. There is no an... - no any existence to the American troops or for the troops in Baghdad at all."

-The Iraqi Information Minister, 5 Apr 03

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rushmc 23]

Some quotes from an interview I heard today said that one of the reasons they were leaving was they now being killed by Iraqs that want them to stop or leave.

I am looking for a link but it was an interesting comment.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,116]

>I'm old enough to remember the generals on the ground and in
>the Pentagon telling us "we see the light at the end of the tunnel" in
>Vietnam. And, of course, it turned out not to be.

Don't think that's equivalent. Al Qaeda leaving doesn't equal success in Iraq. 90-95% of the insurgents in Iraq are locals, not foreign terrorists. (However, it would certainly be good to see even 10% of the insurgents leave.)

[skydyvr 0]

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Al Qaeda leaving doesn't equal success in Iraq.

So what does it equal, failure?

I believe thoughts of any sort of "success" in Iraq are actually depressing to you liberals. It's the only explanation I can think of as to why every "success" is minimized or ignored by the left.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,116]

>So what does it equal, failure?

It doesn't equal success or failure. If we lose a helicopter in Iraq, is that success or failure? How about if we rebuild a bridge? How about if we blow it up again?

It's a bit of good news, though, which is a nice change from the news out of Iraq. (Although it certainly does put to bed any ideas that we are 'sucking all the terrorists' into Iraq.)

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

It's a bit of good news, though, which is a nice change from the news out of Iraq. (Although it certainly does put to bed any ideas that we are 'sucking all the terrorists' into Iraq.)

We really do need to GTF out of there soon.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,116]

>We really do need to GTF out of there soon.

Yep. I just hope we can figure out how.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

>I'm old enough to remember the generals on the ground and in
>the Pentagon telling us "we see the light at the end of the tunnel" in
>Vietnam. And, of course, it turned out not to be.

Don't think that's equivalent. Al Qaeda leaving doesn't equal success in Iraq. 90-95% of the insurgents in Iraq are locals, not foreign terrorists. (However, it would certainly be good to see even 10% of the insurgents leave.)

I wasn't equating Al Quaeda leaving with success in Iraq, or success in Iraq with success in Vietnam; nor was I really even focusing on those issues.
I was comparing the style of military public relations rhetoric today re: Iraq with the style of military public relations rhetoric back during Vietnam. And, as the saying goes, it's deja vu all over again. Seems that every time I hear a line from some Pentagon PR type about what's going on in Iraq, I get that "been there, done that" feeling; except when I close my eyes & try to remember when I been there done that, I'm back in 9th grade making out with Coleen under the bleachers, and the voice I hear is Nixon telling us we're going to have "peace with honor".

They fooled us once; shame on them. If they fool us again, shame on us.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

>We really do need to GTF out of there soon.

Yep. I just hope we can figure out how.

We have a government that can't even manufacture a logical plan for dealing with immigration, good luck.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>I'm old enough to remember the generals on the ground and in
>the Pentagon telling us "we see the light at the end of the tunnel" in
>Vietnam. And, of course, it turned out not to be.

Don't think that's equivalent. Al Qaeda leaving doesn't equal success in Iraq. 90-95% of the insurgents in Iraq are locals, not foreign terrorists. (However, it would certainly be good to see even 10% of the insurgents leave.)

Given your position in the past that the US presence in Iraq is allowing AQ to recruit terrorists, I'd say their exit is most certainly a success. At least we can be rid of their influence. If this helps Iraq avoid a civil war and/or contributes even slightly to more stability, it's a success. Success being defined as a step forward.

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[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>It doesn't equal success or failure. If we lose a helicopter in Iraq, is that success or failure? How about if we rebuild a bridge? How about if we blow it up again?

No issue

Republican list:
lose a helicopter - success
rebuild a bridge - success
blow up the same bridge - success, mission accomplished

Democrat List:
lose a helicopter - failure
rebuild a bridge - failure
blow up the same bridge - failure, GWB has tiny eyes

Average guy:
lose a helicopter - helicopters are neat, I like them
rebuild a bridge - good for them
blow up the same bridge - neato, I like explosions

Speaker's Corner regular:
lose a helicopter - success, Clinton did it first
rebuild a bridge - failure, we shouldn't have had to rebuild it in the first place
blow up the same bridge - neato, I like explosions

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,116]

>If this helps Iraq avoid a civil war and/or contributes even slightly
>to more stability, it's a success.

Agreed. It may well play a small part in our future success in Iraq.

[briguy 0]

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90-95% of the insurgents in Iraq are locals, not foreign terrorists. (However, it would certainly be good to see even 10% of the insurgents leave.)

can you cite a census or some source for this information or can i raise the BS flag?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[headoverheels 334]

All correct, except Carter did it first.

[billvon 3,116]

>can you cite a census or some source for this information or can i raise the BS flag?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1576666,00.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-05-detainees-usat_x.htm

http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/051117_iraqforeignvol.pdf

Excerpted from the last one:

Nevertheless, these numbers pale beside those for the Iraqis themselves. By all reports, the insurgency remains largely homegrown. US experts and top level Iraqi officials estimated in November 2005 that at least 90% of the fighters were Iraqi and the total might be closer to 94% to 96%.. Coalition sources also indicated that only 3.8% of some13,300 detainees held in the fall of 2005 were foreign, and this percentage was lower than it had been in the early winter of 2005. Major General Rick Lynch in the Coalition command in Baghdad stated in October that only 376 of the detainees taken in 2005 were foreign: 78 Egyptians, 66 Syrians, 41 Sudanese, 32 Saudis, 1 American, and 1 Briton. These numbers had not changed significantly as of November 1, although the total number of detainees had risen to 13,900. . . .

These figures mark a sharp contrast to some allegations that the insurgency was being driven by large numbers of foreign volunteers, and that a flood of new volunteers came in 2005. As Major General Joseph J. Taluto, the commander of the US Army’s 42nd Infantry Division, which was based in Tikrit put it, “The foreign fighters attacks tend to be more spectacular, but the local national, the Saddamists, the Iraqi rejectionists, are much more problematic."

[SpeedRacer 1]

It would still be good to get rid of foreign jihadists, even if they're a small number. Their attacks are deadly beyond their numbers, due to being perpetrated by more highly trained Al Quaida terrorists.

Hey, when it comes to Iraq I'll take whatever good news I can get.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,116]

>It would still be good to get rid of foreign jihadists, even if they're a small number.

Agreed. Any improvement is a good thing.