Retired US Iraq general demands Rumsfeld resign

[stoneycase 0]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/12/AR2006041201114.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A recently retired two-star general who just a year ago commanded a U.S. Army division in Iraq on Wednesday joined a small but growing list of former senior officers to call on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.

"I believe we need a fresh start in the Pentagon. We need a leader who understands teamwork, a leader who knows how to build teams, a leader that does it without intimidation," Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who commanded the Germany-based 1st Infantry Division in Iraq, said in an interview on CNN.

n recent weeks, retired Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton and Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni all spoke out against Rumsfeld. This comes as opinion polls show eroding public support for the 3-year-old war in which about 2,360 U.S. troops have died.

"You know, it speaks volumes that guys like me are speaking out from retirement about the leadership climate in the Department of Defense," Batiste said.

"But when decisions are made without taking into account sound military recommendations, sound military decision making, sound planning, then we're bound to make mistakes."

Batiste, a West Point graduate who also served during the previous Gulf War, retired from the Army on November 1, 2005. While in Iraq, his division, nicknamed the Big Red One, was based in Tikrit, and it wrapped up a yearlong deployment in May 2005.

Critics have accused Rumsfeld of bullying senior military officers and disregarding their views. They often cite how Rumsfeld dismissed then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki's opinion a month before the 2003 invasion that occupying Iraq could require "several hundred thousand troops," not the smaller force Rumsfeld would send.

Many experts believe that the chaos that ensued and the insurgency that emerged just months later vindicated Shinseki's view.

Batiste told CNN "we've got the best military in the world, hands down, period." He did not say whether he felt the war was winnable.

'LACK OF SACRIFICE'

"Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said.

Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq.

"I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war.

He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society."

"Iraqis, frankly, in my experience, do not understand democracy. Nor do they understand their responsibilities for a free society," Batiste said.

Newbold, the military's top operations officer before the Iraq war, said in a Time magazine opinion piece on Sunday that he regretted having not more openly challenged U.S. leaders who took the United States into "an unnecessary war" in Iraq. Newbold encouraged officers still in the military to voice any doubts they have about the war.

On Tuesday, Marine Corps Gen. Pete Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, defended Rumsfeld from the criticism.

Rumsfeld said that "there's nothing wrong with people having opinions," and that criticism should be expected during a war as controversial as this one.

/just another nutjob, i'm sure...no reason to believe the guy...he's retired after all...doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground....right??oh wait, there's more like him?! hmm....
//edited to add some bold.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[racer42 0]

And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

L.A.S.T. #24
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[stoneycase 0]

nope, they don't.

i wonder if its a coincidence that Rumsfeld's "military history" reads like half desk-jockey/half wrench-turner.

from the defenselink bio:

Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989.

slightly better than Bush's own history, but when faced with the question of whom to trust - a General with more than enough time in the field, and a "former aviator turned flight instructor turned administrator turned Sec of Def", I'm going with the guy who actually saw time in the field, rather than the guy who spent his time pushing paper.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[Amazon 7]

Quote

And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it

How Dare you question them.. they are on a MISSION FROM GOD

[racer42 0]

Yeah OK...but which one???

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
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[mnealtx 0]

A potential problem with career military as SecDef is the "when all you have is a hammer" quandry.

While I agree that SecDef should at least have SOME military experience at the sharp end (McNamara was logistician before he was president of the Ford Corporation), where do you draw the line?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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where do you draw the line?

Perhaps drawing the line at people that have a better understanding of what it REALLLY means when young men and women are sent off to war....

THose that have served have a far different opinion of those who have not and get their Patriotism gleaned from movies and from their church.

The line is people who have made a career of planning and implimenting.... not a gruop of idealogs who beleive things like " we will be welcomed as liberators".... uh.. maybe if we had done this back in 1991.... but we abandoned them and Sadamm killed THOUSANDS of the people who would have welcomed us as liberators.

That was a reality this secdef and the administration forgot about.

[racer42 0]

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A potential problem with career military as SecDef is the "when all you have is a hammer" quandry.

While I agree that SecDef should at least have SOME military experience at the sharp end (McNamara was logistician before he was president of the Ford Corporation), where do you draw the line?

I think the line gets drawn when the generals are the guys trying to keep the civilian in his place.

L.A.S.T. #24
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Electric Toaster #3
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[Gravitymaster 0]

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And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

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Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said.

Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq.

"I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war.

He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society."

I say it's many on here who don't get it. Should Rumsfeld go? I think it's probably time. Are you ready to follow the rest of the Generals' recommendation? I doubt it. I do agree with much of his assessment.

[mnealtx 0]

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I think the line gets drawn when the generals are the guys trying to keep the civilian in his place.

That leads right back to McNamara and the general's problems with him... or Powell's problems with Aspin.

How about the huge budget cuts to the military under Perry and Cohen?

There has to be a "sweet spot" somewhere...finding the right amount of military experience.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[stoneycase 0]

perfectly valid question. i don't know where you draw the line, honestly. do you give them an aptitude test? see just how much "military knowledge" they actually possess?

i can see both sides - bring in an outsider for a fresh perspective, someone who's thinking outside the box, who hasn't lived "the culture". then there is the opposite the side that says, realistically we can't use an outsider. we need someone who has lived the culture, who has seen and done what we *actually do*.

i don't know if you will agree or not, but to me, this is yet another instance of an administration that has struck out on its own - with its own beliefs and agenda - against the advice of many people. now they've run themselves into a situation where the leaders on the ground, the ones really *responsible* for getting the job done are pushing back.

it'll be interesting to hear the replies. i'm really wondering how many that support bush will support this Gen or "Resign Rummy" argument. honestly, Bush has always been Rummy's biggest supporter. to me, supporting one is supporting the other. so to say, as a bush supporter, its good for Rummy to resign, to me, is like saying Rummy is the wrong man for the job, especially the wrong man to *continue* the job. and what does that say about Bush?

yeah it's a bitch, but guess what, the work that your "employees" do reflects directly on you as "management".

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[racer42 0]

Quote

Quote

And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

Quote

Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said.

Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq.

"I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war.

He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society."

I say it's many on here who don't get it. Should Rumsfeld go? I think it's probably time. Are you ready to follow the rest of the Generals' recommendation? I doubt it. I do agree with much of his assessment.

I think you have my point exactly. Am I ready to follow the rest of the general's recommendation? In my opinion it should have been followed in the first place.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
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[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

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Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said.

Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq.

"I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war.

He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society."

I say it's many on here who don't get it. Should Rumsfeld go? I think it's probably time. Are you ready to follow the rest of the Generals' recommendation? I doubt it. I do agree with much of his assessment.

I think you have my point exactly. Am I ready to follow the rest of the general's recommendation? In my opinion it should have been followed in the first place.

Then we agree. Funny, I remember taking a lot of flak last year when I suggested we increase the number of troops in Iraq so we could just go ahead and win and get out. Mainly by the most shrill on this site.

-

[racer42 0]

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Quote

I think the line gets drawn when the generals are the guys trying to keep the civilian in his place.

That leads right back to McNamara and the general's problems with him... or Powell's problems with Aspin.

How about the huge budget cuts to the military under Perry and Cohen?

There has to be a "sweet spot" somewhere...finding the right amount of military experience.

Don't you think that budget cuts are considerably different than ignoring the advice of commanders in the field? Under fire?
The issue is Rumsfeld and his heavy handed attitude towards his subordinates. Not what some Sec. Of Defense did in the past.

The issue at hand is the war in Iraq.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
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[stoneycase 0]

and where do you think mr rumsfeld gets his marching orders?

if it's time for rumsfeld to go, then is it time to change the strategy? to change the resources? to change the environment? to ultimately, change our position? who do you think *really* controls those? is it not the commander-in-chief? isn't he ultimately the one who sets the tone for those in his cabinet to follow and execute by?

or is it just time to throw a new name in there and march on to the same beat.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[racer42 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

Quote

Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said.

Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq.

"I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war.

He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society."

I say it's many on here who don't get it. Should Rumsfeld go? I think it's probably time. Are you ready to follow the rest of the Generals' recommendation? I doubt it. I do agree with much of his assessment.

I think you have my point exactly. Am I ready to follow the rest of the general's recommendation? In my opinion it should have been followed in the first place.

Then we agree. Funny, I remember taking a lot of flak last year when I suggested we increase the number of troops in Iraq so we could just go ahead and win and get out. Mainly by the most shrill on this site.

-

I have been completely against this war from the beginning, but to commit, foolishly or wisely, American troops to combat and not give them the complete means to prosecute it as quickly as possible is just criminal.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
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[mnealtx 0]

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Quote

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I think the line gets drawn when the generals are the guys trying to keep the civilian in his place.

That leads right back to McNamara and the general's problems with him... or Powell's problems with Aspin.

How about the huge budget cuts to the military under Perry and Cohen?

There has to be a "sweet spot" somewhere...finding the right amount of military experience.

Don't you think that budget cuts are considerably different than ignoring the advice of commanders in the field? Under fire?
The issue is Rumsfeld and his heavy handed attitude towards his subordinates. Not what some Sec. Of Defense did in the past.

The issue at hand is the war in Iraq.

Nope, it's the same - the point I'm making is that there is USUALLY problems between the SECDEF and guys out at the sharp end.

In a general sense, I think it is a good thing that there can be differences between SecDef and the Chiefs of Staff, because they can act as a buffer, one against the other to keep things in check.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

and where do you think mr rumsfeld gets his marching orders?

if it's time for rumsfeld to go, then is it time to change the strategy? to change the resources? to change the environment? to ultimately, change our position? who do you think *really* controls those? is it not the commander-in-chief? isn't he ultimately the one who sets the tone for those in his cabinet to follow and execute by?

or is it just time to throw a new name in there and march on to the same beat.

Oh, I thought the lefty mantra was that Rumsfeld and Cheney were running thing and Bush was just some stupid puppet. Damn, would you guys make up your minds which it is?

To answer your question, Rumsfeld meets with Generals (Joint Chiefs of Staff) and people from the Intelligence Community. They decide what's needed. He then makes a recommendation to the President who meets with his Cabinet, Rumsfeld included and they decide on the best course of action.

-

[Amazon 7]

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To answer your question, Rumsfeld meets with Generals (Joint Chiefs of Staff) and people from the Intelligence Community. They decide what's needed. He then makes a recommendation to the President who meets with his Cabinet, Rumsfeld included and they decide on the best course of action.

And to rebut that.. after the meeting the administration decides they know the answers and force the generals who disagree with the path the want to follow to retire..because the generals have a differing opinion.

[mnealtx 0]

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To answer your question, Rumsfeld meets with Generals (Joint Chiefs of Staff) and people from the Intelligence Community. They decide what's needed. He then makes a recommendation to the President who meets with his Cabinet, Rumsfeld included and they decide on the best course of action.

And to rebut that.. after the meeting the administration decides they know the answers and force the generals who disagree with the path the want to follow to retire..because the generals have a differing opinion.

That has happened throughout recorded history, as well. That, of course, is seen differently by the opposite sides of the political spectrum.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Nightingale 0]

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And still the Bush Administration doesn't get it.

I think they probably get it; they just don't care.

[warpedskydiver 0]

We need this Guy for Secretary of Defense

General Peter Schoomaker - Chief of Staff Army

General Schoomaker became the 35th Chief of Staff, United States Army, on August 1, 2003.

General Schoomaker graduated from the University of Wyoming in 1969 with a Bachelor of Science Degree. He also holds a Master of Arts Degree in Management from Central Michigan University. General Schoomaker’s military education includes the Marine Corps Amphibious Warfare School, the United States Army Command and General Staff College, the National War College, and the John F. Kennedy School of Government Program for Senior Executives in National and International Security Management.

Prior to his current assignment, General Schoomaker spent 31 years in a variety of command and staff assignments with both conventional and special operations forces. He participated in numerous deployment operations, including DESERT ONE in Iran, URGENT FURY in Grenada, JUST CAUSE in Panama, DESERT SHIELD/DESERT STORM in Southwest Asia, UPHOLD DEMOCRACY in Haiti, and supported various worldwide joint contingency operations, including those in the Balkans.

Early in his career, General Schoomaker was a Reconnaissance Platoon Leader and Rifle Company Commander with 2nd Battalion, 4th Infantry, and a Cavalry Troop Commander with 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment in Germany. He then served in Korea as the S-3 Operations Officer of 1st Battalion, 73rd Armor, 2nd Infantry Division. From 1978 to 1981, he commanded a Squadron in the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - D. Following Army Command and General Staff College, General Schoomaker served as the Squadron Executive Officer, 2nd Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment in Germany. In August 1983, he returned to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to serve as Special Operations Officer, J-3, Joint Special Operations Command. From August 1985 to August 1988, General Schoomaker commanded another Squadron in the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - D. Following the National War College, he returned as the Commander, 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - D from June 1989 to July 1992. Subsequently, General Schoomaker served as the Assistant Division Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas, followed by a tour in the Headquarters, Department of the Army staff as the Deputy Director for Operations, Readiness and Mobilization.

General Schoomaker served as the Commanding General of the Joint Special Operations Command from July 1994 to August 1996, followed by command of the United States Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina through October 1997. His most recent assignment prior to assuming duties as the Army Chief of Staff was as Commander in Chief, United States Special Operations Command at MacDill Air Force Base, Florida, from November 1997 to November 2000.

General Schoomaker’s awards and decorations include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, four Defense Superior Service Medals, three Legions of Merit, two Bronze Star Medals, two Defense Meritorious Service Medals, three Meritorious Service Medals, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, Joint Service Achievement Medal, Combat Infantryman Badge, Master Parachutist Badge and HALO Wings, the Special Forces Tab, and the Ranger Tab.

General Schoomaker's foreign decorations and badges include the French Republic Command of the Legion of Honor, the Italian Joint Forces Decoration of Honor of the Defense General Staff, the Japanese Grand Cordon of the Order of the Rising Sun, and the Chilean Medal Cross of Victory.

General Schoomaker and his wife have two daughters and one son.

[Gawain 0]

Yeah great. Secretary Rumsfeld has submitted his resignation to President Bush not once, but twice. Each time, the President declined.

Now, for better or for worse, that is the end of the story. Having said that, and having been there, the story is I do not believe the story is all bad.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

General Peter Schoomaker - Chief of Staff Army

That man sat down next to me in my hospital room and talked with me and my family for nearly an hour. I have tremendous respect for him. He is a truly honorable man and soldier. His deputy, Vice-Chief, General Cody is also held in good regard by many, especially many from the 101st (since he commanded it once). I hold him also with great respect, having seen me the day before General Schoomaker came in. What a week that was. A few days later, I also got to meet Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld a short while later. There was no picture taking (other than that from my wife) and his wife also attended. He wanted to see a lot of people that day, but our talk was still nice, despite the short visit. His character, in my short assessment, genuine, honest, and hard working.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

General Peter Schoomaker - Chief of Staff Army

That man sat down next to me in my hospital room and talked with me and my family for nearly an hour. I have tremendous respect for him. He is a truly honorable man and soldier. His deputy, Vice-Chief, General Cody is also held in good regard by many, especially many from the 101st (since he commanded it once). I hold him also with great respect, having seen me the day before General Schoomaker came in. What a week that was. A few days later, I also got to meet Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld a short while later. There was no picture taking (other than that from my wife) and his wife also attended. He wanted to see a lot of people that day, but our talk was still nice, despite the short visit. His character, in my short assessment, genuine, honest, and hard working.

exactly what he is...he may in retrospect be the best Sec Def we ever had and people are shitting on him....I think Pete Schoomaker is a great sucessor