brenthutch 444 #1176 January 7, 2020 More "Last week the Bush administration came under heavy fire from a large body of respected scientists who claimed that it cherry-picked science to suit its policy agenda and suppressed studies that it did not like. Jeremy Symons, a former whistleblower at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said that suppression of the report for four months was a further example of the White House trying to bury the threat of climate change. Senior climatologists, however, believe that their verdicts could prove the catalyst in forcing Bush to accept climate change as a real and happening phenomenon. They also hope it will convince the United States to sign up to global treaties to reduce the rate of climatic change. A group of eminent UK scientists recently visited the White House to voice their fears over global warming, part of an intensifying drive to get the US to treat the issue seriously. Sources have told The Observer that American officials appeared extremely sensitive about the issue when faced with complaints that America's public stance appeared increasingly out of touch. One even alleged that the White House had written to complain about some of the comments attributed to Professor Sir David King, Tony Blair's chief scientific adviser, after he branded the President's position on the issue as indefensible. Among those scientists present at the White House talks were Professor John Schellnhuber, former chief environmental adviser to the German government and head of the UK's leading group of climate scientists at the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research. He said that the Pentagon's internal fears should prove the 'tipping point' in persuading Bush to accept climatic change." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1177 January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, DJL said: Yeah, that kind of muddies the waters. My cynical mind wonders if they were (at least some) extremists trying to push their agenda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1178 January 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: My cynical mind wonders if they were (at least some) extremists trying to push their agenda. Arson long predates the current politicization of the science of studying climate. Cynicism predates even that no doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistercwood 287 #1179 January 7, 2020 On any given year here there's at least some of the fires that are lit deliberately, that's nothing new. What is becoming an increasing issue is that the window each year to do preventative burning is getting vanishingly small. It's just too hot and too dry to risk, so when fires do start they travel further and are much much harder to contain. Climate change isn't necessarily *starting* these fires, but it is absolutely making them worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1180 January 8, 2020 See guys it has nothing to do with man-made climate change, it is just natural variation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #1181 January 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, brenthutch said: See guys it has nothing to do with man-made climate change, it is just natural variation. So are you trying to show that previous fires also had arsonists involved and there has always been arson or are did someone say the 1939 fires were a result of global warming and you're trying to prove them wrong? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1182 January 8, 2020 Just showing that dry, warm conditions predate the current global warming hysteria. As far as the arson is concerned, what do you expect from the offspring of a penal colony. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #1183 January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Just showing that dry, warm conditions predate the current global warming hysteria. As far as the arson is concerned, what do you expect from the offspring of a penal colony. I agree there's no perfect argument to make but the FACT is that the conditions are dryer and warmer than they've ever been. This also means that fires catch more easily and burn longer because there's more dried out materials BUT with guys running around setting fires it's a pointless conversation to have unless someone can come out with some sort of proof about exactly what set what. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1184 January 8, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, brenthutch said: As far as the arson is concerned, what do you expect from the offspring of a penal colony. As far as I know criminality is not hereditary. Perhaps you can point to something that shows otherwise? Oh yes, of course it's a joke. You love jokes that denigrate others. Edited January 8, 2020 by gowlerk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1185 January 8, 2020 (edited) Oh boy, you must really hate Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappell for that matter. Edited January 8, 2020 by brenthutch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1186 January 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Oh boy, you must really hate Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappell for that matter. They are funny. They lead into a joke using stories. What you do is different. First you make a political statement, usually completely off topic, and then you say something mean about a group of people. Comedy takes skill. Stick to skydiving, you likely have skill in that area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1187 January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, gowlerk said: As far as I know criminality is not hereditary. Perhaps you can point to something that shows otherwise? Oh yes, of course it's a joke. You love jokes that denigrate others. Perhaps not hereditary, but it is cultural in a lot of cases, and a lot of places. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1188 January 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Perhaps not hereditary, but it is cultural in a lot of cases, and a lot of places. Sort of like the Trump family.......but not the culture of Australia in general. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1189 January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, gowlerk said: Sort of like the Trump family....... No. That makes no sense other that to insert your hate of trump somewhere it was irrelevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1190 January 8, 2020 Just now, turtlespeed said: No. That makes no sense other that to insert your hate of trump somewhere it was irrelevant. There you go getting all snowflaky again...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1191 January 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, gowlerk said: There you go getting all snowflaky again...... I'm trying to fit in here! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #1192 January 8, 2020 5 hours ago, brenthutch said: Just showing that dry, warm conditions predate the current global warming hysteria. As far as the arson is concerned, what do you expect from the offspring of a penal colony. Australia this year experienced its driest spring and hottest year on record. The ignition source is not particularly relevant to the severity of the fires, which are also the most dangerous since records have been kept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,259 #1193 January 8, 2020 A local guy here has come up with a way to make some fun and cash..... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/climatologist-tipping-point-1.5418288 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #1194 January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, kallend said: Australia this year experienced its driest spring and hottest year on record. The ignition source is not particularly relevant to the severity of the fires, which are also the most dangerous since records have been kept. Well, google says that 85% of wildfires in the US are caused by humans. Most are accidental, some are arson. I'd guess that Australia isn't all that different. I'd guess that the causes of the fires hasn't changed all that much over the years. As you note, the cause of the fires isn't all that important. What IS important is that the fires are more common, bigger and more destructive. This is true all over the world. Not just Australia (or the US). So if the causes haven't changed, what has changed? Hmmmmm... Temps & moisture content, you know, that pesky AGW stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1195 January 9, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: Well, google says that 85% of wildfires in the US are caused by humans. Most are accidental, some are arson. I'd guess that Australia isn't all that different. I'd guess that the causes of the fires hasn't changed all that much over the years. As you note, the cause of the fires isn't all that important. What IS important is that the fires are more common, bigger and more destructive. This is true all over the world. Not just Australia (or the US). So if the causes haven't changed, what has changed? Hmmmmm... Temps & moisture content, you know, that pesky AGW stuff. What has changed is human encroachment. The increase in the duration of the wildfire season is directly proportional to the increase in population in fire prone areas. The California wildfires have been blamed on climate change yet precipitation is 120% greater than normal and temperatures are around average. So climate change is not responsible it is the increase in population in fire prone areas. Just like in Australia. Edited January 9, 2020 by brenthutch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,859 #1196 January 9, 2020 8 hours ago, brenthutch said: See guys it has nothing to do with man-made climate change, it is just natural variation. No doubt about it. Probably nothing in the news inspired them at all. As anyone can tell you, no abortion, no natural variation abortion murderers. It's just a matter of seeing things as they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1197 January 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: No doubt about it. Probably nothing in the news inspired them at all. As anyone can tell you, no abortion, no natural variation abortion murderers. It's just a matter of seeing things as they are. Now you are sounding like BillV, conflating CO2 with smoking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,859 #1198 January 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Now you are sounding like BillV, conflating CO2 with smoking. I'll take it, and thank you. For sure, my dear departed Mom never imagined I would be said to sound like someone who graduated from MIT with Honors. You are too sweet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,087 #1199 January 9, 2020 3 hours ago, brenthutch said: The California wildfires have been blamed on climate change yet precipitation is 120% greater than normal and temperatures are around average. So climate change is not responsible it is the increase in population in fire prone areas. Just like in Australia. A wet winter makes more fuel. (Rain makes brush grow.) A hot summer provides perfect conditions for it to burn. And hotter summers are the norm courtesy of climate change. Welcome to the new normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,087 #1200 January 9, 2020 11 hours ago, gowlerk said: They are funny. They lead into a joke using stories. What you do is different. First you make a political statement, usually completely off topic, and then you say something mean about a group of people. Comedy takes skill. Stick to skydiving, you likely have skill in that area. What happens next depends on the circumstances. He says something mean and it turns out to just be mean: "Geez, I guess alarmists have no sense of humor." He says something mean and it turns out it's mean AND wrong: "Well, I was up all night working, unlike alarmists." He says something mean and it someone points out that it doesn't make his point: "You sound just like Billvon, conflating weather with Hitler." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
