turtlespeed 226 #1001 December 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Rick said: I just saw this today Yesterday, China and Russia opened a monumental gas pipeline that further cements their economic and political relationship. The pipeline, known as the Power of Siberia, cost $55 billion and runs 1,800 miles from Siberian gas fields to China's northern border. When was this project started? I hadn't heard of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1002 December 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: When was this project started? I hadn't heard of it. Interesting - I wonder how much the US President at the time was involved. I would like to see a list of investors. It seems to me that the deal would have gone through no matter what - since it is for 30 years and all. <Bolding mine> On 29 October 2012, Russian president Vladimir Putin instructed the Alexey Miller, CEO of Gazprom to start the construction of the pipeline.[1] On 21 May 2014, Russia and China signed a 30-year gas deal worth $400 billion which was needed to make the project feasible. Construction was launched on 1 September 2014 in Yakutsk by Putin and Chinese deputy prime minister Zhang Gaoli.[2][3] Construction of the connecting pipeline in China started in June 2015.[4] On 4 September 2016, Miller and China National Petroleum Corporation's Chairman Wang Yilin signed an agreement to build a crossing under the Amur River for the pipeline.[5] Two tunnels under the river were completed by China Petroleum Pipeline in March 2019.[6] Map of the Power of Siberia pipeline The pipeline was filled with gas in October 2019.[7] Deliveries to China started on 2 December 2019.[8] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1003 December 4, 2019 8 hours ago, DJL said: Ok. We were on track to have their involvement under Obama and that took a lot of diplomacy. China's concern was spending capital on this just to get undercut by third world countries who would not get on board. Part of the US and EU agreement was that we would help them and developing countries to switch to low emission power production so that everyone was on an even playing field. Those agreements are now gone and China is even more short-sighted than we are so they're using whatever is cheapest but doesn't lead to the smog issues they had for so long in their cities. That means natural gas and Russia has just cut an agreement to provide it. So, because of our America First diplomacy we've lost the most important partner in combating global warming and are putting money it Russia's pocket. That story about the Pipeline doesn't really track right. I looked at it briefly and the pipeline was already in place, with at least the 30 year contract in place in 2014. How is the pipeline and 30 year contract affected by the current admin? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,260 #1004 December 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Spending has to be balanced with efficiency. The ROI just isn't worth the massive outgassing of funds until there are other major players on board as much as we are. Someone has to be the leader. That's why California is completely ignoring the Federal administration on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1005 December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, gowlerk said: Someone has to be the leader. That's why California is completely ignoring the Federal administration on this. Let Canada take the lead then. OK - How's California's economy, budget, and cost of living, for it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,260 #1006 December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Let Canada take the lead then. OK - How's California's economy, budget, and cost of living, for it? Canada is in a major political and regional battle over the new carbon tax. We're as divided as America, but our national government is far out in front of yours. But of course a lot of it is ineffective show. California is and will remain a major economic powerhouse with an outsized influence in America. Until the big one and the 500 year tsunami hits I guess. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1007 December 4, 2019 9 hours ago, DJL said: Ok. We were on track to have their involvement under Obama and that took a lot of diplomacy. China's concern was spending capital on this just to get undercut by third world countries who would not get on board. Part of the US and EU agreement was that we would help them and developing countries to switch to low emission power production so that everyone was on an even playing field. Those agreements are now gone and China is even more short-sighted than we are so they're using whatever is cheapest but doesn't lead to the smog issues they had for so long in their cities. That means natural gas and Russia has just cut an agreement to provide it. So, because of our America First diplomacy we've lost the most important partner in combating global warming and are putting money it Russia's pocket. The pipeline was built during the Obama administration and it was his anti-fossil fuel policies that put money into Russia's pocket. We could have built a NG liquification and export terminal on the west coast and made billions selling natural gas to China but instead the money goes to Russia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,260 #1008 December 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: The pipeline was built during the Obama administration and it was his anti-fossil fuel policies that put money into Russia's pocket. We could have built a NG liquification and export terminal on the west coast and made billions selling natural gas to China but instead the money goes to Russia. I doubt it. I'm pretty sure China would have always preferred a reliable supplier instead of the US. An overland pipeline is always going to be more economical than LNG ocean shipping. That's why Russia also supplies Western Europe. Edited December 4, 2019 by gowlerk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,868 #1009 December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: The pipeline was built during the Obama administration and it was his anti-fossil fuel policies that put money into Russia's pocket. We could have built a NG liquification and export terminal on the west coast and made billions selling natural gas to China but instead the money goes to Russia. I'm thinking your talents are wasted doing tandems at a seasonal 182 DZ. Why not run for office and see what voters who don't post here think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #1010 December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: The pipeline was built during the Obama administration and it was his anti-fossil fuel policies that put money into Russia's pocket. We could have built a NG liquification and export terminal on the west coast and made billions selling natural gas to China but instead the money goes to Russia. 1) Trump didn't do it 2) OK maybe he did but it's not that bad 3) Obama did it first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #1011 December 4, 2019 2 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Let Canada take the lead then. OK - How's California's economy, budget, and cost of living, for it? Economy? Best in the US. Better than the economy of India or the UK. How about yours? Cost of living? Insane in the Bay Area where everyone wants to live. Below the national average in other places like Bakersfield. Ain't it great to have choices? Budget? Very close to balanced. $143B coming in, $147B going out, $215B in the bank. How's the US budget doing, again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1012 December 4, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, billvon said: Economy? Best in the US. Better than the economy of India or the UK. How about yours? Cost of living? Insane in the Bay Area where everyone wants to live. Below the national average in other places like Bakersfield. Ain't it great to have choices? Budget? Very close to balanced. $143B coming in, $147B going out, $215B in the bank. How's the US budget doing, again? I live in Texas, not necessarily the US. BUT - I guess you didn't know that Texas is the best country in the United States. What is the Total Tax Rate there in California? I suppose to drive my point home . . . What is the total Non Federal taxes? (Not even counting property taxes) Just the Neighborhood, City, County, and State taxes. Edited December 4, 2019 by turtlespeed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #1013 December 4, 2019 2 hours ago, turtlespeed said: I live in Texas, not necessarily the US. BUT - I guess you didn't know that Texas is the best country in the United States. OK. Well, the republic of California is sort of outperforming the republic of Texas these days, both on a total basis and on a per capita basis. So you got a little work to do there. Quote What is the Total Tax Rate there in California? About 9.5%, total tax burden. Fairly high - but not even in the top 10. Texas is 8.2% BTW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1014 December 4, 2019 8 hours ago, billvon said: 1) Trump didn't do it 2) OK maybe he did but it's not that bad 3) Obama did it first. non sequitur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #1015 December 4, 2019 6 hours ago, billvon said: OK. Well, the republic of California is sort of outperforming the republic of Texas these days, both on a total basis and on a per capita basis. So you got a little work to do there. About 9.5%, total tax burden. Fairly high - but not even in the top 10. Texas is 8.2% BTW. its 8.25% and that is sales tax. There is no state tax. Just the state tax is 9.3. That doesn't count City, or County taxes. Care to try again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,559 #1016 December 4, 2019 That was state tax burden. Statewide sales tax would count as a state tax burden, wouldn't it? Wendy P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #1017 December 5, 2019 On 12/2/2019 at 10:58 AM, turtlespeed said: "This" is not solvable - unless you get the entire planet to agree with you and stop taking short cuts. 320 million in one country vs 2.7 BILLION in China and India - I will have hope when we can get the regulations we had in place 15 years ago in place in just those two countries Trump’s theft of $millions from disabled veterans and Trump U enrollees does not give me license to shoplift from the local supermarket. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1018 December 5, 2019 http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/12/uah-global-temperature-update-for-november-2019-0-55-deg-c/ colder than 1998. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #1019 December 5, 2019 2 hours ago, kallend said: Trump’s theft of $millions from disabled veterans and Trump U enrollees does not give me license to shoplift from the local supermarket. It should be clarified that the issue wasn't taking money from the veterans, it did get to them. It was that he used the Foundation's name but had his campaign collect and distribute the money. He therefore illegally used his foundation to boost his campaign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #1020 December 5, 2019 2 hours ago, brenthutch said: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/12/uah-global-temperature-update-for-november-2019-0-55-deg-c/ colder than 1998. OMG and look at 2018! It was colder than 1988 (if you look at the lowest point in 2018 compared to the highest in 1988). Anyway, those libtards are trying to pull one over on us and we should ignore the obvious as fuck upward slope of the entire graph and the fact that all the best data shows 2019 to be the second warmest year in recorded history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #1021 December 7, 2019 On 12/4/2019 at 5:07 AM, turtlespeed said: its 8.25% and that is sales tax. There is no state tax. Just the state tax is 9.3. That doesn't count City, or County taxes. Care to try again? Nope. That's the state's tax burden, which is what you asked about. So free, independent Texans see much the same in state taxes as evil socialist California. Things that make you go "hmmmm." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #1022 December 7, 2019 On 12/5/2019 at 4:15 AM, brenthutch said: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/12/uah-global-temperature-update-for-november-2019-0-55-deg-c/ colder than 1998. Yep. And there was a guy who smoked three packs a day and lived to be 100. SMOKING IS PERFECTLY SAFE! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #1023 December 7, 2019 On 12/3/2019 at 4:35 PM, turtlespeed said: Per capita - we are doing more than either China (#1 by a VERY large margin), or India (also by a VERY large margin). Spending has to be balanced with efficiency. The ROI just isn't worth the massive outgassing of funds until there are other major players on board as much as we are. That's fair enough, but the solution isn't to go 'fuck it, we'll stop doing anything at all'. Continue doing what we were doing and put pressure on the others to catch up before we expand our efforts further. Be a leader, not a petulant child. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #1024 December 7, 2019 https://apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0 A little trip down memory lane, for all of you folks who like to say, "no one ever said that" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #1025 December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: https://apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0 A little trip down memory lane, for all of you folks who like to say, "no one ever said that" Sounds good, let’s do nothing and check back in 20 years and see if it’s progressing as they say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
