I think it gets right to the point

[Steel 0]

http://www.wimp.com/petakilling/
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[quade 4]

I'm unclear.

Are suggesting that PITA -should- take their slogan literally and make fur equal murder or are you saying that PITA has gone too far already.

What freekin' side are you on?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Steel 0]

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I'm unclear.

Are suggesting that PITA -should- take their slogan literally and make fur equal murder or are you saying that PITA has gone too far already.

What freekin' side are you on?

Actually I believe its a re-enactment. I would definately not be in favor of anybody doing this for real.
However, it is accurate in that if this was done to a woman she would die feeling the same pain that the seals feel in barbaric Canada.
When the many try to suggest that there is nothing wrong with the seal slaughter because hey they are just animals, I see other connections.
For instance the legal slaughter of unfaithful women in many Islamic countries. The Muslim men think its their right because they think they are superior. I see legal child prostitution in Bombay. I see world slavery as it dates back thousands of years.
Basically the common trend I see is the more powerful always find a way to make it so they feel the least pain at the expense others. Sometimes this make sense, for instance consuming beef. However, even there, as intelligent and humane people, it should be done in a way that the animal suffers the least. That is to say, I would support a bill outlawing veal. Still other times it make no sense at all, for instance Mink coats are all about appearance, they are not needed to stay warm. When somebody thinks that their ego in terms of appearance, is so important that they don't care if animals are tortured for it, then I believe this person is a worthless individual.
There was a twilight zone episode that deals with just this. There were these very large aliens that came to earth and gave all the countries of the world defense so that they could stop war and have peace on earth. However, in the end it was discovered that they only did this so that they could eat the humans. For all you know that could possibly happen some day, but even if it can't, you still should ask yourself, how would you feel if you were in this situation, and this video put that into perspective.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Lefty 0]

Haha, its funny how PETA always picks on women in fur coats. I'd love to see them pull that on a motorcycle gang in their leather jackets. I think the guy in the video is wearing leather shoes too...how ironic.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Steel 0]

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Haha, its funny how PETA always picks on women in fur coats. I'd love to see them pull that on a motorcycle gang in their leather jackets. I think the guy in the video is wearing leather shoes too...how ironic.

That is a stupid comparison. Leather is a bi-product of beef. Equading killing one cow for 1000 pounds of beef and easily 75 pairs of leather shoes. To torturing hundreds of minks to death for one woman to look pretty, equading this show cluelessness.
And for you statement about leather jackets, again leather is bi-product of beef.
try again thats too easy.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[n23x 0]

are you trying to say equating?

edited to add: What exactly is your point? Slippery slope? Something else?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[billvon 3,107]

>However, it is accurate in that if this was done to a woman she would
>die feeling the same pain that the seals feel in barbaric Canada.

As she would if she were a rat caught in a spring trap. Rats and mice are every bit as intelligent as minks, and are generally poisoned, sliced, suffocated, starved and smashed in far less humane ways than minks. I find it hard to take animal rights groups seriously who protest the 'senseless slaughter' of animals like minks, then go to Home Depot for some rat poison and spring traps for their vermin problem.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Funny how you justify to yourself the beef is fine. Wouldn't want to come across as a pansy vegetarian now would you.

I would give your statement some validity if you were forthe banning of all animal killings for fur and meat and other products. However, you pick and chose those you dislike, which really is the epitomy of hypocracy.

[labrys 0]

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Funny how you justify to yourself the beef is fine. Wouldn't want to come across as a pansy vegetarian now would you.

I thought he meant that taking the coat would have been okay if the guy had made himself a few lampshades and a couple of roasts with the woman's remains.

Owned by Remi #?

[Amazon 7]

AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH



SPELLCHECK

[Sick_Of_It_All 0]

Wait a second... Killing an animal to wear it is wrong.. But keeping an animal captive for your entertainment and interfering with nature to kill other animals to protect it is perfectly fine? Pick a side man, you can't be all and nothing at the same time.

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If there was any doubt in my mind as to whether or not an alligator near my house would kill my dogs, I probably wouldn't hesitate to shoot the alligator.

Edited to add:

So you NEED to eat 2lb burgers to stay alive?

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I eat two pound burgers so I am definately not some tofu eating vegitarian.

Taken from: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2117117

[ExAFO 0]

Yep, being at the top of the food chain is a pretty good setup...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[JohnRich 4]

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Haha, its funny how PETA always picks on women in fur coats. I'd love to see them pull that on a motorcycle gang in their leather jackets. I think the guy in the video is wearing leather shoes too...how ironic.

That is a stupid comparison. Leather is a bi-product of beef. Equading killing one cow for 1000 pounds of beef and easily 75 pairs of leather shoes. To torturing hundreds of minks to death for one woman to look pretty...

So we should only kill large animals because of the ratio of supply efficiency, and leave the small critters alone?

What's the cut-off point for this effect? Are rabbits okay? How about kangaroo?

Now, where did I put my elephant gun...

[lawrocket 3]

And you know, we can actually show videos of people being gassed to death. Then ask, "How would you feel if you were a weevil, just trying to get by on a plant. Insecticide is murder."

Why not show videos of boys and men being castrated, and say, "How would YOU feel being neutered?"

Maybe we can even show PETA a video of a diabetic suffering from gangrene and ask, "How would YOU feel if insulin weren't around? Support animal testing."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[akarunway 1]

Fuck the mink coats and I don't eat seals or whales. DON'T FUCK W/ MY VEAL

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Richards 0]

She deserved it. I could just tell by the video that she had a real attitude and was just looking for trouble.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[ExAFO 0]

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http://www.wimp.com/petakilling/
,

For every animal that the PETA morons don't eat, I shall eat twelve.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Steel 0]

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[reply

So we should only kill large animals because of the ratio of supply efficiency, and leave the small critters alone?

What's the cut-off point for this effect? Are rabbits okay? How about kangaroo?

Now, where did I put my elephant gun...

Actually I was responding to an idiotic statement comparing the vanity killings of 100's of mink to leather as a bi-product from killing one animal that can feed thousands.

But you do bring up an interesting point that can be addressed. My opinion would be as follows. Eating one fluke fish to feed a couple of people for one meal is reasonable. If in order to kill it for food you had to torture the fish before, then I might start to think it was unnecessary ruthlessness.

In response to Bill Von's comparison to rats. Its true Minks are not that different from rats. But when you purposely breed thousands of them simply to torture them so somebody can look pretty. Rats are a problem they spread diseases and they are not easy to exterminate. Would I rather use a poison that is more humane to kill rats sure. But if it comes down to me and my family getting diseases or a rat suffering then I am going against the rat.

Animal testing is not something I am against but just like everything else we need to exercise common sense. Did you want the movie Project X? It was not a fictional movie. If you already know a cause of death you should not continue to kill more and more animals just to show it to somebody else a book or even a video should suffice. Also another form of common sense that needs to be used, is which animals to experiment on. You can play word games and pretend you don't see the difference but I think most people when not argueing in speakers corner would agree to the following:
The life of a human is more important to perserve than and chimp.
The life of a chimp is more important to preserve than a cat.
The life of a cat is more important than a rat.
The life of rats are more important than insects.

I think there are many reasons for this. Insects went killed usually die instantly with minimal suffering and there life span can be from hours to days. To a lesser degree the same is true when comparing rats to cats and all the way up the line.

Now I will leave this debate to the rest of you as I am home and have better things to do than argue on DZ.com, "Lost" is a new episode for one and Benny More needs to be playing on my cd player until "Lost" starts.
Santa Isabel de las Lajas, querida,
Santa Isabel
Santa Isabel de las Lajas, querida,
Santa Isabel

Lajas mi rincón querido,
pueblo donde yo nací
Lajas mi rincón querido,
pueblo donde yo nací
Lajas tngo para ti,
este mi cantar sentido
siempre fuiste distinguido
por tus actos tan sinceros
tus hijos son caballeros
y sus mujeres altivas
por eso grito ¡que viva!
mi Lajas con sus lajeros, lajeros.


,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

• Quote

[lawrocket 3]

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The life of a human is more important to perserve than and chimp.

I would change that to, "The life of a human is more important to perserve than any other thing that lives." A woman getting clubbed is not comparable to a seal getting clubbed.

It's that simple to me.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[craddock 0]

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If in order to kill it for food you had to torture the fish before, then I might start to think it was unnecessary ruthlessness.

Fish can and do die a horrible death. The smaller ones are deprived of O2 by being removed from the water. It can take many hours to die and then even after they are filleted they may live a bit longer.

Have you never seen a fish that has been out of the water for several hours completely filleted yet still alive?

Smaller fish either die slowly from O2 deprivation or are filleted alive, sometimes both. Now a 900 Lb. Halibut is a most likely harpooned to death once it is in the boat. I am not sure of the SOP for these fish.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[billvon 3,107]

>Its true Minks are not that different from rats. But when you
>purposely breed thousands of them simply to torture them so
>somebody can look pretty.

And we raise cows just to torture them so someone can eat something yummy and unnecessary instead of something that's good for you. Beef is actually harmful in the amounts that most americans eat; mink coats are not.

>Rats are a problem they spread diseases and they are not easy to
>exterminate. Would I rather use a poison that is more humane to
>kill rats sure.

So it's the humane-ness of their death which is the issue? In that case, mink is no problem; they are killed pretty humanely. You mught have an argument on the seal thing though.

Most of these discussions devolve to "but seals/minks are cuddly and cute; rats and cows are not." Which is fine. We're the dominant predator on the planet; we could decide to kill only blue eyed animals and make up some justification for it. But if you buy a mink coat, you are driving behavior that's a lot more humane than if you buy rat poison.

>The life of a human is more important to perserve than and chimp.
>The life of a chimp is more important to preserve than a cat.
>The life of a cat is more important than a rat.
>The life of rats are more important than insects.

I don't get this. These aren't moral distinctions; these are "what's your favorite animal?" questions. I prefer rats to cats, but that's just because I don't like cats. Not too significant from a perspective of morality.

[lawrocket 3]

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If in order to kill it for food you had to torture the fish before, then I might start to think it was unnecessary ruthlessness.

And just to comment on this - ever see what a bear does to salmon? What about what all carnivores do to their prey? Bite the neck and slowly strangle it, while another one goes for the belly to disembowel it alive?

And those seals? Sharks and Orcas like to eat them. They usually do it by taking a nice bite out of one, letting it weaken, and then thrash it to bloody lifelessness.

Animals in the wild tear each other limb from limb without regard to the feelings of the prey. People are usually far more humane about the killing of their prey.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The life of a human is more important to perserve than and chimp.
The life of a chimp is more important to preserve than a cat.
The life of a cat is more important than a rat.
The life of rats are more important than insects.

First is the gimme. The rest, no distinctions, aside from I'd say someone's domesticated cat (pet) ranks higher than the rest a random wild animal. From a species preservation standpoint, the chimp might get a leg up over an abundent creature.

[Lefty 0]

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That is a stupid comparison. Leather is a bi-product of beef. Equading killing one cow for 1000 pounds of beef and easily 75 pairs of leather shoes. To torturing hundreds of minks to death for one woman to look pretty, equading this show cluelessness.
And for you statement about leather jackets, again leather is bi-product of beef.
try again thats too easy.

That's just what I thought you'd say. Pick and choose all you want.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[champu 1]

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http://www.wimp.com/petakilling

Presenting an argument in the form of a shock video made by an organization with which you don't agree regarding 90% of their agenda is a good way to lose an argument.

That said, I think this video serves more as an outlet for the aggression peta members hold towards people who don't see eye to eye with them than it is an enlightening reversal of roles.