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jenfly00 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteHere's an axiom:
"When all else fails, it's time to lower your standards."
How bout, "When what you are doing is failing, try something different"?
Somehow, the way it was done before managed to win every war but Vietnam. And that's what it's about - winning wars.
How bout, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And I did basic in 1993 - a kinder, gentler era.
Hmmm, did you miss the part about "the army is barely meeting or coming under their recruiting goals"?
If it isn't broken, it at least calls for a roll or two of duct tape.
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
Andy9o8 2
QuoteUSMC, 1972. Our D.I.'s couldn't touch us except to "correct our position of attention",
I don't doubt you're correct; but I had a friend back home who went thru Parris Island in around '73 or '74, and I remember him telling us that this one DI of his routinely beat the shit out of him at least 2 or 3 times a week. No real point here, just FWIW.
(When my dad was at Parris Island in the late '40s, getting the crap beat out of you was pretty routine back then, he tells me...)
I do worry whether relaxing things more to reduce the drop-out rate by 3 or 5% will produce soldiers we can all count on to be up on that wall protecting our children. Seems logical to me that weeding out those that are too weak (physically or emotionally) is important to keeping up the quality.
QuoteI do worry whether relaxing things more to reduce the drop-out rate by 3 or 5% will produce soldiers we can all count on to be up on that wall protecting our children. Seems logical to me that weeding out those that are too weak (physically or emotionally) is important to keeping up the quality.
Whatever happened to "The Few, The Proud, The Elite"? I'd rather weed them out now, as opposed to having the brutally Darwinian process that is war do it for them. It makes for bad PR.
"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes
-9 toes
ROK 0
I went in, in 81'. I was a smart ass know it all teenager who was intelligent enough to get my way and did just about anything I wanted, before boot camp. Life was all about "me".
The DI's worked on me real good until the crap was removed. The "me" mentality was replaced with training and caring for the team. For the first time in my life I knew that I was a part of something.
If they would have held my hand, and taken it easy on me, I never would have changed.
In order to convert one's attitude in a few short months, it takes more than smiles and education classes...
The DI's worked on me real good until the crap was removed. The "me" mentality was replaced with training and caring for the team. For the first time in my life I knew that I was a part of something.
If they would have held my hand, and taken it easy on me, I never would have changed.
In order to convert one's attitude in a few short months, it takes more than smiles and education classes...
briguy 0
in '91 the only cards we had in basic were called Profile cards or being on Profile. basically it was some medical condition / injury that prevented the soldier from doing some of the training. if you twisted your ankle, you got a 'no running' profile. it wasn't permanent and it sure as hell didn't make things easier because if you couldn't run, you sure as hell could still march or do KP....
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ExAFO 0
QuoteI went in, in 81'. I was a smart ass know it all teenager who was intelligent enough to get my way and did just about anything I wanted, before boot camp. Life was all about "me".
The DI's worked on me real good until the crap was removed. The "me" mentality was replaced with training and caring for the team. For the first time in my life I knew that I was a part of something.
If they would have held my hand, and taken it easy on me, I never would have changed.
In order to convert one's attitude in a few short months, it takes more than smiles and education classes...
AMEN.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuoteUSMC, 1972. Our D.I.'s couldn't touch us except to "correct our position of attention",
I don't doubt you're correct; but I had a friend back home who went thru Parris Island in around '73 or '74, and I remember him telling us that this one DI of his routinely beat the shit out of him at least 2 or 3 times a week. No real point here, just FWIW.
I'm suspicious of that claim. That's not long after I passed through there. There was oversight by officers, and the D.I.'s could get in serious trouble for such things. Sometimes people embellish their boot camp tales to make it sound more harsh, and I wonder if that's not what is going on here. If it really happened, someone should have squealed on the D.I., and he'd have been court martialed.
They had plenty of other ways to punish us without resorting to personal physical violence. Like push-ups in the sand spur weeds. Or standing at attention for long periods while being eaten alive by sand-fleas. Or running long distances at "high port" (holding the rifle over your head at full arm's length).
I think the worst abuse I ever got was when a D.I. hung an M-14 trigger group from my mouth for about 15 minutes. There is a little tab on there that dug into my gums, and it hurt like hell, but I had to maintain my position of attention.
mnealtx 0
QuoteI think the worst abuse I ever got was when a D.I. hung an M-14 trigger group from my mouth for about 15 minutes. There is a little tab on there that dug into my gums, and it hurt like hell, but I had to maintain my position of attention.
I bet you made damn sure that your weapon was CLEAN for the next inspection though, didn't you??
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Don't get caught smoking in your rack after lights out. The finale was "MOTIVATIONAL TRAINING", 3 hrs. w/ a M-16 poured w/ lead ain't fun![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
LOL now in hindsight. I was and always will be a hard nut to crack. No sheephearder needed here.
LOL now in hindsight. I was and always will be a hard nut to crack. No sheephearder needed here.I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
leroydb 0
Its saddening really. Having only joined about 9 yrs ago, I can even see a difference in the quality of Army BCT graduates. They are much more relaxed to authority (until brough back to reality) than I or others of my time would have ever thought of being then or even now. The "kinder, gentler boot camp" only causes more problems/heartaches for the NCO's that give half a shit and require them to act like they are in the ARMY and are a SOLDIER. I mean it is an all volunteer Army, if you didnt want to do it, then you shouldn't have signed the "dotted" line.
I am glad I went through the BCT that I went through and wish that the ARMY of One soldiers of today all could experiance what "the old days" were like.
I am glad I went through the BCT that I went through and wish that the ARMY of One soldiers of today all could experiance what "the old days" were like.
Leroy
..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...
..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...
Quotei just saw on the news a piece about the army's new boot camp. they've done away with most of the yelling and have gone to corporate strategies such as "team building" and "mentoring".
This might work if the military was a corporation and not a fighting machine. However, I don't see many corporations maneuvering in the field while getting shot at.
Quotethis is all to increase the success rate of recruits because the army is barely meeting or coming under their recruiting goals.
If you're only concerned with numbers, it may be successful in increasing the quantity, but definitely not the quality.
Quotethe problem i have with this is that i believe it will create a weaker army. some recruits should be weeded out. boot camp needs to be a high stress environment in which people learn to perform in tense situations...
Totally agreed! The last thing I wanted to deal with in the field was a wimp who went fetal in a dangerous situation. A good rifle butt to the head...ahhh I shouldn't go there...
Basic training in Ft Benning in 1969 was still "no-holds barred". I hated it at the time, but after it was all over with, I went to my DI and thanked him for making me a better man and a better soldier.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
When I was in Basic, they gave us "stress cards". It was a card you could use like a get out of jail free card if you felt to stressed out. Only one guy ever used his in our class, and they made the rest of us run circles around him. We beat the shit out of him while he was sleeping. I bet he was a lot less stressed about the Drill Seargeant the next day, and a little more concerned with giving 110%...
I thought the whole "stress card" concept was a little frisco from the get-go, but what the hey. Yeah Basic sucked, but it wasn't that bad... The food was great, 3+ hours of sleep every night, and they let you get drunk/laid halfway through your 16 weeks. Better then college!
I thought the whole "stress card" concept was a little frisco from the get-go, but what the hey. Yeah Basic sucked, but it wasn't that bad... The food was great, 3+ hours of sleep every night, and they let you get drunk/laid halfway through your 16 weeks. Better then college!
what country and branch did you serve in? 16 weeks is a long ass boot camp with or without a stress card.
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
Quotewhat country and branch did you serve in? 16 weeks is a long ass boot camp with or without a stress card.
Shit I had only 5 weeks and 2 days of basic training*(2 Hrs of sleep guaranteed) ...no wonder they wouldn't let me play with guns
*Actually it was an experiment to see how fast men could be trained for combat.
I was then shipped out for more training at various bases.
Again where I was not taught a thing
In the immortal words of my drill instructor
" this shit should be instinct by lineage to you "
Back then I had no idea what he meant (My dad was a combat vet)
and yeah I got slapped upside the head once
and this when we qualified with the M16A1
"Out fucking standing!!! that's the way to shoot ...
I want you all to shoot like this man"
hehehehe
what can I say I benefitted from my upbringing
QuoteI went thu USAF Basic in 1971
Realistically, if a person is in the AF or Navy, what value does it have to walk for 10 miles? Shouldn't boot camp for those services be revised to parallel the mission statement?
I have never been in any armed services group.
However, things change. Civilian schools have evolved to fit the new realities of workplace requirements.
The mission of the Navy and AF has changed.
If the point of boot camp is to ready a recruit, then it should reflect what they will encounter.
JohnRich 4
QuoteI bet you made damn sure that your weapon was CLEAN for the next inspection though, didn't you??
Ha! Actually it was clean to start with. They would screw with you no matter what, and you didn't need to have done something wrong to be a victim. Everyone was always guilty of something. Also, in the name of teamwork, if one guy screws up - everyone is punished. And with a platoon of 80 recruits, there's always at least one guy screwing up. So it's a no-win situation. Yeah, boot camp's a lot of fun!
We quickly learned that no rifle cleaning passes inspection the first time. So there was no point spending an hour with pipe cleaners and q-tips polishing every nook and cranny. Because the D.I. was just gonna look at it and throw it the sand claiming it was filthy, and you would have wasted all that effort. Therefore, the tactic was to just pretend to clean it the first time, present it to the D.I., have it thrown in the sand, then clean it for real the second time.
ExAFO 0
My personal favorite was after putting your bed into pristine order, being ordered to do flutter kicks (under the covers) about 5 min before inspection... heh.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
QuoteQuoteI went thu USAF Basic in 1971
Realistically, if a person is in the AF or Navy, what value does it have to walk for 10 miles? Shouldn't boot camp for those services be revised to parallel the mission statement?
I have never been in any armed services group.
However, things change. Civilian schools have evolved to fit the new realities of workplace requirements.
The mission of the Navy and AF has changed.
If the point of boot camp is to ready a recruit, then it should reflect what they will encounter.
while it may be true that an airman or sailor may not be required to walk ten miles in the real world, they are still in the military. that means that they should be in very good physical shape, know how to wear a uniform and look good wearing it, and respect superiors. these qualities were lacking when i was in the navy, and i doubt they will get better. it may even be benificial for all services to attend 6 weeks of a universal bootcamp run by the marines before moving on to a 4 to 6 week branch specific phase of bootcamp.
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
ExAFO 0
Quoteit may even be benificial for all services to attend 6 weeks of a universal bootcamp run by the marines before moving on to a 4 to 6 week branch specific phase of bootcamp.
Why the Jarheads? They're possessed of the most effective propaganda/marketing dept, the braggadoccio(sp?) of their members. Other than that, they're no more essential than any other branch of service.
Naval infantry is not the end-all of military force.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
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