kinder, gentler boot camp, WTF?

[TrophyHusband 0]

i just saw on the news a piece about the army's new boot camp. they've done away with most of the yelling and have gone to corporate strategies such as "team building" and "mentoring". this is all to increase the success rate of recruits because the army is barely meeting or coming under their recruiting goals. the problem i have with this is that i believe it will create a weaker army. some recruits should be weeded out. boot camp needs to be a high stress environment in which people learn to perform in tense situations. i'm curious to hear the opinions of people who are in the army.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[warpedskydiver 0]

You mean you don't want the kind of people that might be offended if you say they must kill the enemy instead of going out and introducing themselves and trying to sway their opinion with meaningful conversation?

[lawrocket 3]

Here's an axiom:

"When all else fails, it's time to lower your standards."

It applies to the military, as well.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[TrophyHusband 0]

that's exactly what it looks like to me. this will cause more problems down the road. there will be soldiers who cannot cope with the stress of deployment, much less a combat situation. this is a stupid move on the army's part. i just hope that the other armed services don't follow suit.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kallend 2,150]

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that's exactly what it looks like to me. this will cause more problems down the road. there will be soldiers who cannot cope with the stress of deployment, much less a combat situation. this is a stupid move on the army's part. i just hope that the other armed services don't follow suit.

If the alternatives are dwindling troop numbers or the draft, maybe it's a good idea.

Nothing like an ill advised and badly managed war to spoil recruiting.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[briguy 0]

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... the problem i have with this is that i believe it will create a weaker army.

i wonder if people said the same thing when the army told drill instructors they couldn't hit recruits and let them get 8 hours of sleep a night with 3 meals a day?

(i was in basic in july 1991 at ft. sill, ok)

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[TrophyHusband 0]

the war is only one factor in dwindling recruit numbers. it wouldn't surprise me if in fact the war was a positive factor in recruitment. that fact is that the military just doesn't sound that appealing to people graduating high school. both the pay and the lifestyle are unattractive. as far as the draft goes, it would be political suicide for and party that mentions it and we both know that reps and dems are more concerned with retaining power than anything else, so a draft will never happen.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

i'll bet thay did, but somewhere between beating recruit, not letting them eat or sleep and just having them sit by a pool in the bahamas sipping rum drinks for 8 weeks there has to be a line. at what point does bootcamp become too soft? i went to navy bootcamp in 1992 and felt that it way way too soft, granted, it was the navy, but it still should have been more challenging both physically and mentally.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[mnealtx 0]

"Stress card, Drill Instructor!! Stress card!!"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ROK 0]

Take a bunch of 18 to 22 year olds and try and convert them from their civilian way of thinking and acting, to a regimented military way without the psychological "brain washing" and it's going to be very interesting. Will it work? My first instinct is to say no.

If recruiting is down, it's because of the war, and a different view of our country by our youth.

[TrophyHusband 0]

i had heard about these stress cards and that they didn't last very long. it seemed to me like a really stupid idea from the start. the navy used them for a short time in the 90s but then abandoned them. did any other service try them?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[lawrocket 3]

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If recruiting is down, it's because of the war, and a different view of our country by our youth.

Add other factors to this. When the economy is good, recruiting goes down. A better educated populace with more opportunities for the future is going to view the military as ranking further down in the list of things they would be willing to do.

The 9/11 attacks helped with recruiting. The War in Iraq did not.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[MattM 0]

"Private, drop down and give me 20... pretty please with cherries on top?"

Matt

[jeiber 0]

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did any other service try them?

When I was in basic at Ft. Benning, we saw some recruits in a different batallion with colored cards - rumor was they were 'stress cards'. Didn't see or hear anything official though.

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[miked10270 0]

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"Private, drop down and give me 20... pretty please with cherries on top?"

Wouldn't it be more like:

"Private! You're A FUCKWIT not meeting your training norms! Drop & give me 20 Your Sergeant will now demonstrate how to do 20 pushups!"

Seriously, I always thought that the psychology of ANY induction regime was to break the recruits previously held values and then to build new values. You will be called "Useless" in your first few weeks regardless of how well you perform, and over the ensuing weeks, the instructors gradually show that they value you by relaxing and becoming more approachable. It's a proven way of inducing BOTH pride & discipline.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Amazon 7]

Maybe we just need less ARMY.. and more MArines.. I dont think the Marines arte making it kinder or Gentler.....

I went thu USAF Basic in 1971.. It was a TOTAL joke as far as I was concerned.. hell my Grandfaters hunting camp was far more structured.. and talk about hollerin and backhanding for not saying sir or maam

Of course the tech school was a totally different matter.. 6 months long... dropping for 25 for everythingand anything..10 mile runs in formation( but I learned cool songs).... interesting camping trips to nasty places...now that was more like it

• Quote

[JohnRich 4]

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i wonder if people said the same thing when the army told drill instructors they couldn't hit recruits and let them get 8 hours of sleep a night with 3 meals a day?

USMC, 1972. Our D.I.'s couldn't touch us except to "correct our position of attention", and a few other exceptions. They could use those exceptions very creatively. 8 hours of sleep? Gosh, the Army recruits are sissies! They need to be put under stress from lack of sleep, to see how they can perform. Better done in boot camp, than to find out in combat. 3 meals? Mostly, but a "meal" could consist of a slice of bread and a swig of water.

I can see the new approach now:
Sgt: "Private! Charge that machine gun nest and kill them with a grenade!"
Private: "Um, pardon me Sgt., but you know the guidelines say we should first have a Group Meeting to discuss the possible strategies, followed by a Blue Ribbon Panel to test alternatives, and then a Plenary Commision to decide who should carry it out."

[briguy 0]

when i was in army basic in '91, i didn't think it was too tough either.... basically all you had to do was not stick out by doing something stupid.

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[pajarito 0]

The newer, more sensitive guys won't fit in really well with the battle hardened veterans we have serving now. That's for sure. This is sad..

[ViperPilot 0]

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i just hope that the other armed services don't follow suit.

HAHAHAHAHA...oh man, that was a joke right?

[Richards 0]

It is systemic throughout our society. It started when social workers decided that schools should build self esteem first and worry about actually educating people second. When this crop of kiddies graduated, they were the raw material that the military would try to train, however at 18 most of them had never once been criticised, punished, told that they had failed....etc. The clock needs to be turned back, not just in the military but when they are in potty training. The disapointment of failure and learning that your best simply was not enough is the greatest character builder a kid can have.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[ExAFO 0]

AF BMT, Summer 1997. No stress cards.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[mnealtx 0]

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It is systemic throughout our society. It started when social workers decided that schools should build self esteem first and worry about actually educating people second. When this crop of kiddies graduated, they were the raw material that the military would try to train, however at 18 most of them had never once been criticised, punished, told that they had failed....etc. The clock needs to be turned back, not just in the military but when they are in potty training. The disapointment of failure and learning that your best simply was not enough is the greatest character builder a kid can have.

Richards

That's a very good point!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Richards 0]

Gracias.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[akarunway 1]

I went into Navy boot camp in 77. It was pussified then. Hate to see it now

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.