Man Kills Lawn Trespasser

[bozo 0]

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Well, there ya go. If you see a teenager on a bicycle in the street, and he's headed straight for your grass, and he doesn't stop instantly upon a loud bellowing of "stay offa my grass you lousy kid!" you are within your rights to blow a 30.06 hole in his head.


NO NO NO any good marksman knows that the 3006 round will go completely thru the kids head and might kill an innocent onlooker.
Lets get serious here. :o)

bozo

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[RhondaLea 4]

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This certainly does not help the NRA...

Blaming the NRA for something they didn't do, does not help your reputation for presenting facts or demonstrating logic.

Uh...

This post does not help your reputation for reading comprehension.

He wasn't blaming the NRA for anything.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 4]

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Lets get serious here. :o)

bozo

This thread is giving me an unbelievable headache.

And it's all bill's fault.

And unformed's.

And Richards'.

Shoot them all, I say.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[billvon 3,120]

>NO NO NO any good marksman knows that the 3006 round will
>go completely thru the kids head and might kill an innocent
> onlooker.

>Lets get serious here.

You're right; my bad. A shotgun blast to the face would be a much better way to rid one's lawn of bike-riding, rut-digging criminals.

[Amazon 7]

I like Lazurus Long's thinking on this


" An armed society is a polite society"


When everyone carrys... then you would tend to be nicer to the person who just might think its a good idea to blow you away.

[bozo 0]

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Lets get serious here. :o)

bozo

This thread is giving me an unbelievable headache.

And it's all bill's fault.

And unformed's.

And Richards'.

Shoot them all, I say.

Nope.....too many. Better call in Artillery.

bozo

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[billvon 3,120]

>" An armed society is a polite society"

. . . and apparently would have very nice lawns.

[JohnRich 4]

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>You're wrong.

Protecting criminals, John?

Wrong again.

[JohnRich 4]

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...the ACLU... and all they do is support people who are having constitutional issues.. over and over... even the hallowed gun rights in the constitution have been fought for.

The ACLU has never defended the 2nd Amendment. They choose to ignore that portion of the Bill of Rights. Quote:

"We believe the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons..."

Source: http://www.aclu.org/about/faqs/index.html#3_5

They only defend selective portions of the Constitution, and ignore those they don't like. Champions of the entire Constitution? Hardly.

[stoneycase 0]

jesus christ.

did anyone read that PDF he linked to.

let me be the first to say: holy $hit, john. very glad you and your son are OK, not to mention the rest of your family members that were directly in harm's way...that's just amazing, and incredibly sad that your family, and your son had to deal with the entire mess.

to summarize for those that didn't read the PDF:
1. john had crazy neighbor
2. crazy neighbor purchases gun & ammo
3. john's son, john, is playing b-ball at home in the driveway
4. crazy neighbor pulls a driveby with a shotgun, misses most of little john and the rest of the family that's outside, but little john is hit with birdshot
5. crazy neighbor proceeds to go shooting rampage where he takes aim at, and kills, quite a few people, including two police officers
6. crazy man gets death for the 2 cops, and life for each person he killed
8. crazy man appeals for new trial
9. subsequently denied

/correct me if i'm wrong here john, i wasn't able to read the whole thing in detail.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Before all you anti-gun liberals get your panties in a bind, there's got to be another side to the story. I don't think the man would have just one out and shot the kid over a piece of grass. There has to be more to the story. The kid was probably harassing the guy and about to cause him a heart attack. I'm sure we'll find out in due time. I guarantee this story was written by some liberal reporter who hates guns.

A man who measures his grass and gets into disputes with the neighbors about people walking on his "perfect" lawn is strange in the head.

He's a nut case. Wait and see.

rl

Kind of reminds me of my neighbor, who is nearly as nutty and has threatened to poison my dog.

But is he a law abiding citizen? No law against being nutty.

no the only laws he has broken is the law of nature itself.

well if you don't count being a seven time DUI loser

[LouDiamond 1]

Actually I think Bill gave an example of how what that man did could be explained using the stated law by even a mediocre lawyer.

Having lived in Texas for some years and seeing actual instances where it seemed that the shooter shot the victim for no apparent reason, other than being on their property,I think that law shows how in this instance the shooter could be in the right if he had been in Texas given his penchant for caring for is property.All one has to do is convince a jury that they met at least one of those listed requirements to justify their actions and often thats what they do. "I thought he was coming into my yard to steal my stuff and hurt my family and thats why I shot him"

Not saying its right or wrong, just the way the law is in some states.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Samurai136 0]

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This certainly does not help the NRA...

Blaming the NRA for something they didn't do, does not help your reputation for presenting facts or demonstrating logic.

Uh...

This post does not help your reputation for reading comprehension.

He wasn't blaming the NRA for anything.

rl

Thanks for being there rl.

John, I am an NRA member. I think as far as the NRA and 2nd amendment issues are concerned you and I are probably in agreement.
Mostly, this incident makes me upset.

An unarmed child was killed by an otherwise law-abiding gun (shotgun) owner. The NRA's general position is that law-abiding citizens should own firearms.

It upsets me when teenagers die randomly (auto-accidents, firearms related accidents, etc). My teenage sister died in a random auto accident years ago. I know this kid's parents are in a lot of pain right now, especially his mother. It also upsets me when otherwise law abiding citizens do something dumb with their firearms. It hurts the NRA's cause in general. Mostly, I'm mad the kid is dead.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[tkhayes 348]

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and about to cause him a heart attack

then definitely it must have been self-defense.....

[JohnRich 4]

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to summarize for those that didn't read the PDF... correct me if i'm wrong here john, i wasn't able to read the whole thing in detail.

You did an excellent job of summarizing the story.

Another one of the reasons my son was lucky, is that the shotgun was loaded with three rounds of bird shot, and three rounds of buck shot. The first shot with which he shot my son in the back, was bird shot (small pellets). If it had been buck shot (large pellets), he probably would not have survived. As it is, he still carries around about 50 pellets inside him. After firing six rounds from the shotgun, emptying it, he picked up a Mini-14 and fired four rounds of .223. If it hadn't been for my 6,000-lb heavy-gauge steel 1972 Chrysler New Yorker, he probably would have got us all.

My main message though, is not to assume that the kid is guilty of provoking the man to shoot. There are a lot of nut cases out there, primed to shoot someone, regardless of external motivation. It's all in their own heads. And its hard for normal people like us to understand that, because they don't think like normal people, and we don't think like them.

[JohnRich 4]

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An unarmed child was killed by an otherwise law-abiding gun (shotgun) owner. The NRA's general position is that law-abiding citizens should own firearms.

I would change the word "should" to "be allowed to".

And we agree on that.

However, just because some people become criminals at some point in their lifetime, is not reason enough to restrict freedom for everyone. This is the balancing act we play with freedom. In order to have it, we have to be responsible with it. At such time when you use it irresponsibly, then you're denied that freedom thereafter. But there should be no pre-emptive restrictions on freedom until such time that you prove you don't deserve it. That means that some people will commit crimes that maybe they wouldn't do in a much more restrictive society, but I'm not willing to live with much fewer freedoms to achieve that gain. It's a balancing act of freedom versus security, and more of one means less of the other.

[RhondaLea 4]

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My main message though, is not to assume that the kid is guilty of provoking the man to shoot.

Apparently not.

Mugrage wasn't shot in the chest. He was shot in the back.

Martin apparently made death threats to the family on other occasions. The 2002 calls to the police (actually a visit to the station) occurred because someone sprayed weed killer on Martin's lawn. That was the last time he contacted the police.

According to the neighbors, Martin would sit on his porch and shoot birds with a BB gun.

Martin has been charged with premeditated murder, and his bail is set at $2M.

Mugrage was known as a "good kid."

All the stories are consistent so far.

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There are a lot of nut cases out there, primed to shoot someone, regardless of external motivation. It's all in their own heads. And its hard for normal people like us to understand that, because they don't think like normal people, and we don't think like them.

Exactly.

But I do believe it's possible to tell these people from the rest of the world if you pay attention and don't simply write off their odder behaviors as "eccentric."

rl

Links to most recent stories:

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&aq=Larry%20Mugrage&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-11,GGLJ:en&q=Larry+Mugrage&sa=N&tab=wn

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[JohnRich 4]

Thanks for that follow-up information.

And of course, even if the kid had been harassing the man, that still wouldn't justify the man killing the boy.

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But I do believe it's possible to tell these people from the rest of the world if you pay attention and don't simply write off their odder behaviors as "eccentric."

Yes, but that presents a problem. There are many people who are eccentric, but perfectly harmless. And there doesn't seem to be anyway to tell the harmless ones apart from the nut cases.

My former neighbor who went on a shooting rampage, was just an eccentric grumpy old man, until the day he decided to start shooting.

And I don't want to treat every eccentric old man like he's a psycho killer. So, what to do?

[kallend 2,150]

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And I don't want to treat every eccentric old man like he's a psycho killer.

Thank you, I appreciate your concern.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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And I don't want to treat every eccentric old man like he's a psycho killer.

Thank you, I appreciate your concern.

You're welcome. I plan on becoming one myself some day. I'll be the old fart who disappears every weekend with his truck full of skydiving gear, camping equipment, or guns, instead of staying home and manicuring his lawn, and watching TV sports, like everyone else.

Come to think of it, I'm already "eccentric". And glad of it!

[rasmack 0]

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I'll be the old fart who disappears every weekend with his truck full of skydiving gear, camping equipment, or guns, instead of staying home and manicuring his lawn, and watching TV sports, like everyone else.

Well, please don't mix up the back packs. We'd miss you around here.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[Stumpy 284]

Quite right too!!! You can grow old but you should never grow up....

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RhondaLea 4]

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Yes, but that presents a problem. There are many people who are eccentric, but perfectly harmless.

I'm very eccentric.

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And there doesn't seem to be anyway to tell the harmless ones apart from the nut cases.

Mmmm...

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And I don't want to treat every eccentric old man like he's a psycho killer. So, what to do?

Getting an idea of how someone sees their place in the universe would be a start.

The narcissists of the world are best avoided no matter what. And if their narcissism doesn't improve as they age (for some, it does), then it's best to continue avoidig them.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[pirana 0]

I think the level of "eccentricity" that would result in shooting a teenager in the back would be pretty easy to detect. I'm not an anti-gun nut, but this nations murder rate is all you need to see to know that a lot of guns are getting in the wrong hands. We don't necessarily need tighter gun control as we much as we need tighter wacko control.

If a person has ever committed a violent crime at any level, they should never own a gun. If they have ever been diagnosed with certain mental disorders - no gun for you. And a brief exam isn't a bad idea either.

We need better controls on who can own a gun. Guaranteed this guys nuerosis showed in more ways than just measuring his grass. Ever notice how after these events happen, you see the neighbors being interviewed and they almost always say something like "He was a pretty quiet guy. Kept to himself usually. Spent a lot of time (insert nuerotic obsession here)." Those clips are so similar they could just use stock footage.

My guess is that even a superficial psycho exam would identify damn near every one of these cretins. Maybe they're not nuerotic enough to need a lobotomy, but for crying out loud we could at least stop letting them own guns just because some special interest group or another is afraid someone will use it as a first chip in their rights to own a gun.

Everyone who wants to own a gun should be required to pass some cursory evaluation, such as MMPI. I'd rather have freedom from psychos with guns than freedom from the government knowing I prefer tall women, . . . in uniform, . . . who talk dirty.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RhondaLea 4]

I'm not so sure I agree.

There's a certain kind of "whacko" that I very much want to have a gun. Certain kinds of military and law enforcement "whackos" to name two.

I know a man who has a bona fide mental illness and, IMO, a personality disorder, but the chances of him shooting up the neighborhood are nil.

I still believe, however, that it's possible to pick out the kind of nutcase who is going to go postal.

But because we won't screen for those particular characteristics, I don't think we should screen at all. We're going to weed out a lot of perfectly responsible gun owners with something like the MMPI, while letting the real loonies walk around armed.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb