Christian in a Muslim Country? You're Fucked, thanks for playing!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Isn't that country supposedly one of the strong allies in war against terror? Wasn't Bush just there throwing his full support behind everything?

Their country, their rules. Life sucks.

[shropshire 0]

There are lots of terrible actions taken by many countries...... Hands chopped off, girls 'bits' mutilated, executions (public or otherwise) and even people held indefinately without trial. These are all shocking, vile and barbaric and should be condemed by all civilised peoples. But we cannt force countries to change their laws all we can do is negotiate and hope that they can be convinced that their ways are incompatible with what passes as aceptable with the rest of the world.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,090]

>I just hate it when people bitch b/c they just have no idea how
>good they have it here compared to other countries...

You realize that we helped CREATE the government that did this, right? And are now supporting it militarily? This is the government you're condemning, the same one you are supporting with your taxes?

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Bush, November 2003:

Successful societies guarantee religious liberty -- the right to serve and honor God without fear of persecution. . . These vital principles are being applied in the nations of Afghanistan and Iraq. With the steady leadership of President Karzai, the people of Afghanistan are building a modern and peaceful government. Next month, 500 delegates will convene a national assembly in Kabul to approve a new Afghan constitution. The proposed draft would establish a bicameral parliament, set national elections next year, and recognize Afghanistan's Muslim identity, while protecting the rights of all citizens. . . .
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[billvon 3,090]

>However, this just shows how terrible this religion and its related laws can be.

Per our own government, Islamic states don't even make up the majority of religious oppressors (although they certainly do it to some extent.)

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A new State Department report on global religious freedom has cited eight countries for particularly severe abuses -- three Islamic states, three ruled by communists, a military regime and a one-party state in Africa.

"These are countries where governments have engaged in or tolerated particularly severe violations of religious freedom over the past year," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in Washington Tuesday.

"We are committed to seeking improvements in each of these countries." The eight named as "countries of particular concern" (CPCs) are Burma, China, North Korea, Eritrea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Vietnam.

Designation of religious freedom violators as CPCs takes place under 1998 legislation which provides for the U.S. government to take punitive steps against them.

. . . The Commission has recommended CPC status for all eight of the countries named Tuesday, as well as three others -- all Muslim states -- Pakistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan.
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http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1362358.html

[Zep 0]

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I can think of a very good solution to this....

However, it would leave some posters shitting their pants.

In not so many years from now, if they don't find a FINAL soloution
many posters WILL be shitting in their pants

Gone fishing

[billvon 3,090]

>if they don't find a FINAL soloution many posters WILL be shitting in their pants.

Another final solution, eh?

[rehmwa 2]

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>if they don't find a FINAL soloution many posters WILL be shitting in their pants.

Another final solution, eh?

Shitting in their pants is the final solution. Who wants to invade a country where it's smelly and messy all the time? Pacifists should love it. It's economical, and can be funded as an art under freedom of expression.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Elisha 1]

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And the fundies wonder why people get so worked up about the separation of church and state around here

Fundies! Hey I like that. Classic.

Cheers,

Richards

I prefer Fundagelicals.

[ExAFO 0]

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- Their country..... their rules......

True...

..But it serves as a great sound bite for the 700 Club and the like to con millions more little old ladies out of their life savings, so Pat Robertson can buy another Learjet to use for his blood diamond mining ops...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[ViperPilot 0]

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Reminiscent of the Inquisition, isn't it. Then it was Christians toturing and killing heretics.

This isn't about who's done what over the long run. The christian dudes back in that time were equally as bad pieces of shit as these dudes are.

[ViperPilot 0]

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Isn't that country supposedly one of the strong allies in war against terror? Wasn't Bush just there throwing his full support behind everything?

Their country, their rules. Life sucks.

It's an ally, but doesn't mean it's one of our STRONG allies. Yes we want to support them as best we can to help win this war, but that still doesn't mean killing some dude for being a christian is right, nor does it mean we should just throw them out and receive no help and possibly recreate an enemy.

[ViperPilot 0]

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You realize that we helped CREATE the government that did this, right? And are now supporting it militarily? This is the government you're condemning, the same one you are supporting with your taxes?

We helped free elections occur, we did not set how the govt would run, what the laws were, etc.

[ViperPilot 0]

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But we cannt force countries to change their laws all we can do is negotiate and hope that they can be convinced that their ways are incompatible with what passes as aceptable with the rest of the world.

Yeah I know. It's just frustrating that shit like this happens.

[likearock 2]

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Reminiscent of the Inquisition, isn't it. Then it was Christians toturing and killing heretics.

Either way, that kind of "law" has no business being in the 21st Century.

[billvon 3,090]

>we did not set how the govt would run, what the laws were, etc.

"The proposed draft would establish a bicameral parliament, set national elections next year, and recognize Afghanistan's Muslim identity, while protecting the rights of all citizens. . . ."

So you figure that was another, uh, statement regrettably devoid of veracity? If we are going to invade countries to rid them of the Taliban, then help them set up a Taliban-like government - who are we helping, again?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Bush, Rice Express Concern for Afghan
By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer
Wed Mar 22, 7:56 PM

WASHINGTON - President Bush called on Afghanistan on Wednesday to respect the religious freedom of an Afghan citizen on trial for his life for converting from Islam to Christianity.

"We expect them to honor the universal principle of freedom," Bush said in a statement in Wheeling, W.Va., preceding a speech on Iraq. "I'm troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account."

While not demanding that the trial be stopped and the defendant released, Bush said he wanted to make sure that "people are protected in their capacity to worship."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice followed up with a meeting with Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah, whose government is an ally of the United States in the war on terror.

She told him she was deeply troubled by the case and called the prosecution "contrary to universal democratic values," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

Rice also told Abdullah that those values include freedom of religion, which the United States fought for in Afghanistan and elsewhere, McCormack said.

And she told the foreign minister that the case ran contrary to the Afghan constitution.

The statements by Bush and Rice toughened the U.S. stance in a controversy that has spread beyond South Asia, evoking statements of concern, for instance, in Germany and Italy.

On Tuesday, administration officials expressed respect for Afghanistan's sovereignty while also registering their concern over the case.

The case involves a 41-year-old Afghan man, Abdul Rahman, who converted from Islam and was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian. The conversion is a crime under Afghanistan's Islamic laws.

Abdullah made no statement after his meeting with Rice, which was not listed on her public schedule.

Here for strategic talks, Abdullah said Tuesday he hoped "through our constitutional process there will be a satisfactory result." He did not say whether he thought the defendant would be found innocent.

On Wednesday, the Afghan embassy responded to expressions of concern with a statement saying the Kabul government "is fully aware of and pursuing the best way to resolve Mr. Rahman's case judicially."

"It's too early to draw a conclusion about the punishment," the statement said.

But it said Rahman's mental fitness was being evaluated by the judicial system and that results may end the proceedings.

Michael Cromartie, chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, said in a statement he had written to Bush to express concern about the trial and the threatened execution of Rahman.

Cromartie told the president that the prosecutor had called Rahman "a microbe (who) should be cut off and removed from the rest of Muslim society and should be killed."

The Council on American-Islamic Relations issued a statement calling for Rahman's release. "Religious decisions should be matters of personal choice, not a cause for state intervention," the Muslim civil liberties group said.

[billvon 3,090]

They dodged the bullet! He's been declared mentally incompetent to stand trial. So the Taliban II won't have to back down on their laws, and the US won't have to condemn the killing of an innocent man by the government they installed.

Of course, there are several clerics who have said they are going to behead him after he's released, so this may not be over yet.

[rasmack 0]

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They dodged the bullet! He's been declared mentally incompetent to stand trial.

So, we now have the court's word that christians really are insane?

*ducks*

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[tkhayes 348]

You're a heretic

I KNOW you're a heretic

So I am going to torture you until you confess to being a heretic

Then I am going to execute you for being a heretic

For the good of your soul of course

[tbrown 26]

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They dodged the bullet! He's been declared mentally incompetent to stand trial. So the Taliban II won't have to back down on their laws, and the US won't have to condemn the killing of an innocent man by the government they installed.

Of course, there are several clerics who have said they are going to behead him after he's released, so this may not be over yet.

Right after 9/11 we were very careful to emphasize that this was NOT supposed to be a war against Islam. I mean we even trotted Muhammed Ali onto the TV to mumble about what a religion of peace Islam is, and GOD (not Allah) knows we all love Ali to pieces (and I still do...).

But a lot has changed since 2001. This conversion/death story is taking place in a country Americans have fought and died for ? Not to mention the bullshit going on in Iran, Iraq and the Middle East.

I think it's time we recognized the fact that we ARE in a World War with Islam. It's already begun. We can relax, we didn't start it, they did. But it's on. Actually it's been going on ever since the inception of Islam in the 7th century. These people want nothing less than to conquer the world and impose their will on it. That's what Jihad is, it's in their fucking scriptures. This war has been fought ever since, flaring up every few centuries and now it's back in the nuclear age. And it's time WE ended it.

To further let guilty consciences (like mine used to be) off the hook, the fact that this war has already begun means we no longer have a choice. These people will KILL you. They will kill your family, your children, anybody they can, because you are you and not one of them. They don't give a shit about you. We no longer have any obligation to "understand" anything about them, beyond which they are the mortal enemy and a clear threat to our values and way of life.

Secondly, being anti-Islamic is not racist. I despise racism. Islam is not a race, it is an infectious and perverted religious ideology practiced by people of all races around the world - Arabs, Asians, Africans, Europeans, even Americans (who had better make up their minds which side they're on and soon).

It's a pity to have to make such dehumanizing and demonizing statements about people, but the time for "understanding" is past. there's nothing more to understand and a war cannot be fought effectively if you have a shred of human feeling for your enemy.

I'm only saying now what everyone will be saying after the next 9/11.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[mikkey 0]

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You have a very good point about the difference between Christian and changing faith fron Islam. But how about the people who didn't get a choice?

I don't know about Afganistan, but in Malaysia and Singapore, if your parents are Muslim, you are born Muslim, so you don't have a cholce. Also, people who marry into a Muslim family has to convert to Islam. You can reject Islam, but in Malaysia and Singapore i don't think you get killed for it.

Eugene

Firstly Singapore is a strictly secular state and the majority is not Muslim. Secondly, whilst Malaysia is an Islam country it has a large proportion non-muslims - especially due to the large Chinese population. Malaysia has guaranteed religious freedom. So no issues in regard to choice of religion in both places.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[twibbles 0]

Belive me, i know, I'm Mayaysian and grew up in Singapore.Singapore or Malaysia isn't the issue here, i was just saying that my experience with the muslim community is from there. I was just saying that if you are born into a religion, that in some places you can be killed for rejecting it, what choices do you have? Some argue that this person in Afganistan should have made up his mind before he accepted Islam, but he might not have made the decision himself in the first place, it was made for him.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."