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billvon 3,119
You can do social engineering by giving the tax break to Buffet, or you can do social engineering by giving the tax break to low income earners. Or you can do social engineering by coming up with some compromise between the two.
Claiming "my system is perfectly fair and yours is social engineering" is the sort of partisan nonsense that goes nowhere. ALL tax schemes, other than a flat tax _amount_, are social engineering schemes. So choose what sort of social engineering you want to push and go from there.
rushmc 23
Quote>Or do you really support that type of social engineering?
You can do social engineering by giving the tax break to Buffet, or you can do social engineering by giving the tax break to low income earners. Or you can do social engineering by coming up with some compromise between the two.
Claiming "my system is perfectly fair and yours is social engineering" is the sort of partisan nonsense that goes nowhere. ALL tax schemes, other than a flat tax _amount_, are social engineering schemes. So choose what sort of social engineering you want to push and go from there.
So, someone that makes more money than you, or I, should pay more taxes just because they can?
Talk about the left class envy at it's best
I do not understand why those that make more should be punished for doing so with higher taxes??
I do think a level of tax is needed but, a government produces nothing. It is an endless hungry hole that consumes money for only one reason! To grow. We the People should give them only enough to take care of the basics. Feeding a continously hungry entitlement system does not help "most" of the people the money is given too.
Anyway, I tryed to respond without a jabe and I never said what I propose was fair. Your words, not mine
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuote>Or do you really support that type of social engineering?
You can do social engineering by giving the tax break to Buffet, or you can do social engineering by giving the tax break to low income earners. Or you can do social engineering by coming up with some compromise between the two.
Claiming "my system is perfectly fair and yours is social engineering" is the sort of partisan nonsense that goes nowhere. ALL tax schemes, other than a flat tax _amount_, are social engineering schemes. So choose what sort of social engineering you want to push and go from there.
So, someone that makes more money than you, or I, should pay more taxes just because they can?
Talk about the left class envy at it's best
I do not understand why those that make more should be punished for doing so with higher taxes??
I do think a level of tax is needed but, a government produces nothing. It is an endless hungry hole that consumes money for only one reason! To grow. We the People should give them only enough to take care of the basics. Feeding a continously hungry entitlement system does not help "most" of the people the money is given too.
You forgot to mention waging endless wars. Big consumer of money there.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,119
>more taxes just because they can?
Nope. But everyone has to pay, and pay a LOT; the Iraq war cost alone is $3000 per household. The question is how to best spread the load. The most "fair" possible system is to send everyone a bill for around $40,000 a year. Would you prefer that sort of system? (That is social engineering, of course - you are effectively putting most poor people in jail for income tax nonpayment.)
>I do not understand why those that make more should be punished
>for doing so with higher taxes??
Because making poor people pay $40K a year will end up with so many people in prison that the rich people's taxes will have to rise to 90% to pay for all the prisons.
>I do think a level of tax is needed but, a government produces nothing.
Do you drive? Fly? Skydive? Drink water? Breathe air? Expect to be protected from criminals? Then you are a consumer of government services, and you'll be asked to pay for them. I am all for reducing government expenditures - but a responsible planner reduces expenditures FIRST and reduces taxes SECOND.
>Anyway, I tryed to respond without a jabe . . .
"Talk about the left class envy at it's best . . ."
mnealtx 0
QuoteBecause making poor people pay $40K a year will end up with so many people in prison that the rich people's taxes will have to rise to 90% to pay for all the prisons.
When did they pass the debtor's prison laws??
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Eiley 0
QuoteQuoteBecause making poor people pay $40K a year will end up with so many people in prison that the rich people's taxes will have to rise to 90% to pay for all the prisons.
When did they pass the debtor's prison laws??
According to the IRS:
QuoteThe Law: The requirement to pay taxes is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in section 1 of the Internal Revenue Code, which imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates, and trusts as determined by the tables set forth in that section. (Section 11 imposes a tax on the taxable income of corporations.) Furthermore, the obligation to pay tax is described in section 6151 , which requires taxpayers to submit payment with their tax returns. Failure to pay taxes could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties.
I'm not an American, but that looks fairly plain to me.
nothing to see here
mnealtx 0
For all of Bill's talk about my using a plea to emotion, he turned around and did the same thing.


The point still stands that the tax cut was across the board - therefore, the tax cut wasn't "just for the rich" - that type of statement ends up as a plea to emotion as well.
The fact that rich people got more back from the tax cut is simple mathematics - 33% of 1 million is always going to be more than 10% of 25 thousand.
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
rushmc 23
Quote>So, someone that makes more money than you, or I, should pay
>more taxes just because they can?
Nope. But everyone has to pay, and pay a LOT; the Iraq war cost alone is $3000 per household. The question is how to best spread the load. The most "fair" possible system is to send everyone a bill for around $40,000 a year. Would you prefer that sort of system? (That is social engineering, of course - you are effectively putting most poor people in jail for income tax nonpayment.)
>I do not understand why those that make more should be punished
>for doing so with higher taxes??
Because making poor people pay $40K a year will end up with so many people in prison that the rich people's taxes will have to rise to 90% to pay for all the prisons.
>I do think a level of tax is needed but, a government produces nothing.
Do you drive? Fly? Skydive? Drink water? Breathe air? Expect to be protected from criminals? Then you are a consumer of government services, and you'll be asked to pay for them. I am all for reducing government expenditures - but a responsible planner reduces expenditures FIRST and reduces taxes SECOND.
>Anyway, I tryed to respond without a jabe . . .
"Talk about the left class envy at it's best . . ."
First, I agree with nothing in this post
Second, do you want to talk about taxes or the war?
I get your wanting to link them together because it helps keep you angree in this post it only muddys the water (unles that is what you need to happen)
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,150
QuoteTaxes are based on income and are automatically deducted from payroll by the employer (unless they are tax exempt for some reason or another, like working out of country). .
Sales tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? Property tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? What planet are you living on? You have a very wierd idea of what constitutes "tax".
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuote>So, someone that makes more money than you, or I, should pay
>more taxes just because they can?
Nope. But everyone has to pay, and pay a LOT; the Iraq war cost alone is $3000 per household. The question is how to best spread the load. The most "fair" possible system is to send everyone a bill for around $40,000 a year. Would you prefer that sort of system? (That is social engineering, of course - you are effectively putting most poor people in jail for income tax nonpayment.)
>I do not understand why those that make more should be punished
>for doing so with higher taxes??
Because making poor people pay $40K a year will end up with so many people in prison that the rich people's taxes will have to rise to 90% to pay for all the prisons.
>I do think a level of tax is needed but, a government produces nothing.
Do you drive? Fly? Skydive? Drink water? Breathe air? Expect to be protected from criminals? Then you are a consumer of government services, and you'll be asked to pay for them. I am all for reducing government expenditures - but a responsible planner reduces expenditures FIRST and reduces taxes SECOND.
>Anyway, I tryed to respond without a jabe . . .
"Talk about the left class envy at it's best . . ."
First, I agree with nothing in this post
OK how much do YOU think Bush's Iraq war is costing on a per household basis, and why doesn't it have to be paid for by taxes?
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteTaxes are based on income and are automatically deducted from payroll by the employer (unless they are tax exempt for some reason or another, like working out of country). .
Sales tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? Property tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? What planet are you living on? You have a very wierd idea of what constitutes "tax".
You certainly are working hard on being obtuse, John... please explain how the IRS is involved with sales tax or property taxes...TIA.
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteTaxes are based on income and are automatically deducted from payroll by the employer (unless they are tax exempt for some reason or another, like working out of country). .
Sales tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? Property tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? What planet are you living on? You have a very wierd idea of what constitutes "tax".
You certainly are working hard on being obtuse, John... please explain how the IRS is involved with sales tax or property taxes...TIA.
Who said anything about the IRS? You just wrote "Taxes".

IIRC, I pay a Federal tax on my phone bill and on avgas for my plane too.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteYou certainly are working hard on being obtuse, John... please explain how the IRS is involved with sales tax or property taxes...TIA.
Who said anything about the IRS? You just wrote "Taxes".

IIRC, I pay a Federal tax on my phone bill and on avgas for my plane too.
So do I...on my phone bill, anyway - no plane.

I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteTaxes are based on income and are automatically deducted from payroll by the employer
Mine aren't. I'm a contractor don't have any of my income taxes deducted. I need to be smart enough to put a side a certain percentage of my income so that come income tax filing time, I have enough money to pay what I owe. I'm currently putting 50% of what I gross in a seperate account, this way not only should I have enough to pay my taxes next April, but it's also kind of a forced savings plan. It makes it look like I don't have very much expendable income. But I know that the benefits will out weigh the cons and do you know what? I'd much rather do it this way that have an employer send the money right away to the feds. This way I'm earning some interest (taxable of course) instead of the feds earning it.
Hey I'm not sure what this thread is about? Is it whining about only the rich pay tax? Or is it something else? Everyone pays tax. It's just that the ultra rich tend to pay more. But I still say that effects them the least. Any form of taxation hurts the ultra poor and I still contend that it's the middle class who gets ####ed the most by tax.
Governments regardless of whether they are federal, state, provincial or municiple need to make sure they are running effeciently before they start thinking of raising taxes. But that message seems to be lost at too many government levels and unfortunately too many people in society see themselves as victims and thus demand expensive bloated government services. We'd all be better off if we pulled up our pants, stopped feeling like victims and ensured our own financial houses were in order before we demanded that governments get their houses in order. At least this way we're not as reliant on governments.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteTaxes are based on income and are automatically deducted from payroll by the employer
Mine aren't. I'm a contractor don't have any of my income taxes deducted. I need to be smart enough to put a side a certain percentage of my income so that come income tax filing time, I have enough money to pay what I owe. I'm currently putting 50% of what I gross in a seperate account, this way not only should I have enough to pay my taxes next April, but it's also kind of a forced savings plan. It makes it look like I don't have very much expendable income. But I know that the benefits will out weigh the cons and do you know what? I'd much rather do it this way that have an employer send the money right away to the feds. This way I'm earning some interest (taxable of course) instead of the feds earning it.
Hey I'm not sure what this thread is about? Is it whining about only the rich pay tax? Or is it something else? Everyone pays tax. It's just that the ultra rich tend to pay more. But I still say that effects them the least. Any form of taxation hurts the ultra poor and I still contend that it's the middle class who gets ####ed the most by tax.
Governments regardless of whether they are federal, state, provincial or municiple need to make sure they are running effeciently before they start thinking of raising taxes. But that message seems to be lost at too many government levels and unfortunately too many people in society see themselves as victims and thus demand expensive bloated government services. We'd all be better off if we pulled up our pants, stopped feeling like victims and ensured our own financial houses were in order before we demanded that governments get their houses in order. At least this way we're not as reliant on governments.
Yup, you're one of those "one reason or another" ones....
I agree with you wholeheartedly on your general comments about taxes, as well...
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Channman 2
If only Kallend could post so clearly. But I agree with your post. "Less bitching, more savings"

rehmwa 2
QuoteSales tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? Property tax is based on income and deducted from payroll? What planet are you living on? You have a very wierd idea of what constitutes "tax".
It's also very taxing to read these posts. And I don't see the government or my employers taking those 'taxes'.

obtuse word games ARE fun
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteYou certainly are working hard on being obtuse, John... please explain how the IRS is involved with sales tax or property taxes...TIA.
Who said anything about the IRS? You just wrote "Taxes".![]()
IIRC, I pay a Federal tax on my phone bill and on avgas for my plane too.
So do I...on my phone bill, anyway - no plane.

Right, only the rich own planes.

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,119
Fair enough!
>Second, do you want to talk about taxes or the war?
They are intimately related. Want to reduce your taxes by $3000 a year? (or alternatively reduce the deficit by a significant amount.) Cut a $250 billion expenditure. That happens to be the cost of the Iraq war - and that was an optional war.
If you really want the war, no problem. Just be willing to pay for it, through your taxes.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou certainly are working hard on being obtuse, John... please explain how the IRS is involved with sales tax or property taxes...TIA.
Who said anything about the IRS? You just wrote "Taxes".![]()
IIRC, I pay a Federal tax on my phone bill and on avgas for my plane too.
So do I...on my phone bill, anyway - no plane.
Right, only the rich own planes.

Is this a case of "if the shoe fits...."?

I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
But does the KKK pay over $30K a year?
nothing to see here
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