The persecution of atheists

[nathaniel 0]

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"Atheists are not very well-thought-of in America," says John Green, a senior fellow with the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. "It's still acceptable to criticize atheists in a way that's not polite. People may harbor negative views about Jews, Catholics, Muslims and evangelicals, but they know they're not supposed to voice those views, so they don't. But it's still OK to say anything bad you want about atheists."

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And yet at the same time a compelling undercurrent is at work. A study done by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York found that the percentage of the population that describes itself as "nonreligious" more than doubled from 1990 to 2001, from 14.3 million to 29.4 million people. The only other group to show growth was Muslims.

Clicky

[runs and hides]

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[waltappel 1]

No reason to run and hide. I don't believe in a god, but I have found Christians and pretty much everyone else to be generally tolerant of my views because I respect their right to have any beliefs they want.

It actually goes a bit further than that. There have been plenty of times when I have said that I think of religion as a control mechanism and that I think the Bible is a bunch of BS. Even so, I have found the Christians I know to still be tolerant of those views. It may be because they think I'm mental and not to be taken seriously after making statements like that, but just the same they have been very tolerant.

I also don't generally talk about my views unless asked or if it comes up in conversation.

Anyone else have different experiences?

Walt

[rhys 0]

when I je jehovahs witness charecters around, instead of slamming the door in thier face. Listen to what they have to say usually they ask if I belong to church etc.

I tell them politely that I do not beleive or disbelive anything. If the evidence for a god were prevalant i would be attending church. but Science seems to have thee more open minded realistic solution for our existance. church seems to be closed minded, greedy and unrealistic. The i go on to ask where the cosmos and dinosours fit into the bible and thier beleifs? and wait. ususaly there is a pause then a reply of. oh it is good to see some people actually think about what happens in life.

then they go.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[shropshire 0]

Similarly, I would never slam the door in their face.. because that would be just plain rude and mummy said that would be a bad thing .....(I only ever exhibit that side of my nature on SC).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Richards 0]

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No reason to run and hide. I don't believe in a god, but I have found Christians and pretty much everyone else to be generally tolerant of my views because I respect their right to have any beliefs they want.

It actually goes a bit further than that. There have been plenty of times when I have said that I think of religion as a control mechanism and that I think the Bible is a bunch of BS. Even so, I have found the Christians I know to still be tolerant of those views. It may be because they think I'm mental and not to be taken seriously after making statements like that, but just the same they have been very tolerant.

Good post. I am of a similar opinion. Too much just does not add up. I am always told that it is about faith yet in the bible anecdotes, the people then never had to have blind faith. They had people walking on water, splitting oceans etc. to support their beleifs. If our beleiving in God is important enough to send us to hell for not doing so, is it not important enough for him to split an ocean or have someone walk on water, just to reassure us in advance of his existence?

On the topic of Heaven or Hell. Why the two extremes? Depending on how you live your life you will either have the best eternal life, or the most horrifying eternal life imaginable, with no middle ground. And why is it neccessary for a person to be burning in hideous unendurable mindbending agony FOR ETERNITY. Five hundred billion trillion milleniums after the earth has ended, what is the purpose of still keeping a soul conscious for the sole purpose of inflicting agony on him/her for what was done during that persons 65-85 years on earth. Also this does not differentiate between levels of sin (unless you subscribe to Dante's theory). If someone just barely meets the criteria to go to hell then he or she suffers no less a fate than Adolph Hitler! I do not get it.

And the business of sending suicides to hell. WTF! In theory child molesters can be forgiven by God if they ask for it and have eternal bliss, yet if their victims commit suicide to due their pain and suffering then they apparently deserve to spend an eternity shreiking from the horrible agony they endure 24 hours a day without there ever being an end to their agony. That seems a wee bit sick and twisted and contradicts the argument of a "loving God"

While I am not sure that I am an athiest Walt, I do agree with you in that that I don't trust any of the religions dictated by human beings, and I see organized religion as just a control tool.

Cheers,

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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[TrophyHusband 0]

for the most part i've been treated fairly as well, but there have been a few exceptions. i still run across the occasional zealot who feels it is his or her duty to convert me to their religion. one great thing about being an atheist is that i don't really care if other people share my religious beliefs. usually once i expain to someone how i came to believe what i do, even the most agressive evanglists tell me they respect my beliefs and leave me alone. i have found that for the most part, people who are trying to convert me are very willing to listen to what i have to say. the trick is to respect their beliefs and not get into a point by point debate about the validtiy of their religion. of course, speakers corner is an exception to that. referring back to the original post, i wonder if atheism is really growing that fast, or are there just more people willing to admit it. when i finally figured out i was atheist, it took me a year before i told anyone else.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[derivative 0]

You guys have had better experiences with the Christians than I have. I've yet to meet one who hasn't tried to tell me how wrong I am and that I'm going to Hell when I die, blah, blah, blah. Don't even get me started on debates of a scientific nature.

But, coming from the midwest, I suppose that's to be expected.

The way I see it, everyone has to make sense of the universe in their own way. If some want to believe in supernatural explanations, that's their privilege. I prefer natural explanations. To me, explanations that work within the bounds of the natural realm are much more satisfying than pulling a rabbit out of a hat, so to speak.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'm a Christian and I'm a scientist. no conflict there for me.

I have not personally witnessed a whole lot of shit-shoveling on atheists. Once I saw one of those guys who preach through megaphone. I don't think that works too well. I just found it annoying.

I think the vast majority of people, religious or not, are content to let everyone else walk their own path. The fanatics (and yes, there are atheist zealots too) are the rare exception, in my experience.

Speed Racer
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[sfzombie13 324]

my experiences with christians are similar to yours. i am not an athiest, but a pagan, and i think(i may be wrong) that people like me are treated a little worse than athiests. kinda like the fact that i am extremely spiritual, and they find that offending to their beliefs, whereas athiests are not as much of a threat to their beliefs. i did have an interesting discussionwith a couple of jehovahs witnesses about string theory and how i can use scienc to tie in all the theories i have about nature based religions to actual observations that can be witnessed by all. i had jsut gotten high(i have since quit smoking) and we talked for over an hour. the one girl got really antsy, but the other was very open minded and knowlegable. if we had talked much longer, i would have converted her. i thought that was very funny. and enlightening to me as well, i worked out some things for myself.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[derivative 0]

I didn't mean to imply that science and religion are exclusive, and I hope that my comments weren't taken that way. In fact I think can be complementary.

I know several christians who have PhDs in biology and actively work in the field. I asked one of them about conflicts with their beliefs and their research. The reply to which was, "How can you not look at a strand of DNA and see it as evidence of God's handiwork?"

In the majority of my experience, science has a double standard, i.e.: In discussions of evolution, you get arguments like, "carbon dating is not very accurate..." Thus, science is flawed, and "we're right". But in topics such as abortion, we hear arguments like, "medical science tells us..." so science works and "we're right".

I understand that these examples are a little broad, but I think they are idicative of a pattern of thought that treats science as really little more than just a political tool. This belies a lack of understanding of science and respect for the scientific method; the attitude of throwing up the hands and not even attempting to understand.

Again, just my experience, YMMV.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[Shotgun 1]

I often talk about religion on here, but I rarely talk about it in 'real life' (though I've only recently realized that, since I've been talking about it on here a lot)... So I found myself in a weird situation at school the other day...

I was talking with three classmates during a break, and two of the guys started talking about their religion (both Catholics). Then one of them looked at the third guy and asked what his religion was (in a manner that sounded as if he just expected everyone to have a religion)... I was sure he was going to turn to me and ask what my religion was, and I sort of started freaking out, wondering what they would think if I told them I was an atheist... Of course I would have been honest, but luckily he didn't ask me (maybe because of the look on my face)... But it made me start wondering if people in that situation would think less of me if they knew that I didn't believe in god... And it also made me surprised to realize that that situation has not come up before (at least I don't think that it has in my adult life).

[Shotgun 1]

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I know several christians who have PhDs in biology and actively work in the field. I asked one of them about conflicts with their beliefs and their research. The reply to which was, "How can you not look at a strand of DNA and see it as evidence of God's handiwork?"

Do they also look at a strand of damaged DNA and see that as evidence of God's handiwork? Just curious...

I often marvel at the complexity of life, and at some of the amazing ways that nature works... but I don't feel the need to explain it off as some supernatural being's handiwork... There might actually be a more interesting explanation, or maybe we'll never know... But I would personally rather not know than to convince myself of some common myth just so I can feel comfortable thinking that I have an answer. (No offense meant to those who truly do believe in a god.)

[billvon 3,096]

>"How can you not look at a strand of DNA and see it as evidence of God's handiwork?"

How can anyone look at the lifecycle of an ichneumon wasp and believe that God intentionally did that?

>but I think they are idicative of a pattern of thought that treats
>science as really little more than just a political tool.

Sadly true. More true recently, as reality can get in the way of the proper message. Thus science needs to be made to show that the earth is not warming, embryos feel pain, and carbon dating is all wrong. And unscrupulous scientists can do just that, but then it becomes something other than science. It becomes pure politics.

[derivative 0]

I didn't think to ask about damaged DNA, but I'm sure that the question might get a response including the phrase, "God's will".

I agree with you completely - you can always look deeper and ask more questions. If you conjur supernatural explanations to natural phenomena, then you're done. But, if you keep looking for natural explanations, that's where the fun begins.

Of course, this pre-supposes internal consistency of the universe. But I haven't seen any reason to suppose that it is not consistent. And yes, I have read Godel's work - it's about the consistency of logical systems, not necessarily the universe.

Anyway, I think everyone has to understand in their own way - the problems start with legislating belief systems.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[livendive 8]

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Similarly, I would never slam the door in their face.. because that would be just plain rude and mummy said that would be a bad thing .....

Plus it's more fun to answer the door naked and sporting an erection anyhow.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rasmack 0]

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Plus it's more fun to answer the door naked and sporting an erection anyhow.

Wishful thinking or do strange things just turn you on?

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[Richards 0]

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Plus it's more fun to answer the door naked and sporting an erection anyhow.

Classic! Has this ever caused one of them to change her religion?

Cheers,

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.