Recommended Posts
Steel 0
That article is totally NOT about sexual orientation. It says nothing about what sex Adam shows or will show attraction towards in the future. The word homosexual is ignorantly thrown in there, I will give you that much.
Here is some information for you. They have tested brains that belonged to homosexual and compared them to brains that belonged to straight men, and women and transgendered individuals. The straight man and gay men's brain looked similar while the female and male to female transgender's brain were similar.
Actually this article is just ignorantly looking at some annecdotal evidence and misinterpreting it. Even if this had been about boy showing gay tendencies, for all you know the mother could be treating them differently anyway. Adam may have gone beat up while younger and the mother could have developed a tendency of over protection.
,
Here is some information for you. They have tested brains that belonged to homosexual and compared them to brains that belonged to straight men, and women and transgendered individuals. The straight man and gay men's brain looked similar while the female and male to female transgender's brain were similar.
Actually this article is just ignorantly looking at some annecdotal evidence and misinterpreting it. Even if this had been about boy showing gay tendencies, for all you know the mother could be treating them differently anyway. Adam may have gone beat up while younger and the mother could have developed a tendency of over protection.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Steel 0
Quote>I guess what I'm saying is that IF it is not genetic, but hormonal, and
>can be "fixed"... should we treat it like any other "defect" and "fix" it
>before the child fully develops?
Consider the opposite. If a boy likes full-contact sports, likes to strut about and brag, and shows unusually large muscular development - should his excess of testosterone be "fixed" by chemical means before it becomes permanent?
You really should learn more about the effects or testoserone before throwing that around. True testoserone does contribute to muscular develpment but that is it. A high amount of testoserone produces a high sex drive for males as well as females, and I don't mean females in a lesbian sort of way. Just because somebody likes full contact sports does not mean they have high or low testoserone levels. I don't very much care for football, basketball or soccer. One of my favorite sports is probably tennis. However, my muscular development and facial hair are a clear indication of a high amount of testoserone.
Anyway if you artifically decrease the testoserone levels in a male you are also decreasing the estrogen levels as well. Estrogen in males is created from the aromatase enzyme bonding the testoserone. Still if you want to look for the sex drive you need to look for DHT another form of testoserone created by another enzyme bonding with testoserone. DHT is what fully develops the male sex organ, keeps the sex drive up and is responsible for male pattern baldness. This is why its rare to have a bald impotent guy whose problem is physiological and not psychological.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Quote...testoserone...
I would have just thought this was a typo except you typed it this way nine times so I figure it's got to be on purpose.
If you're as well educated about these things as you snottily imply with your first sentence, I'm very excited to learn something from you. On the other hand, if you were just being snotty, it's back to normal around here.
So please explain the difference between testoserone and testosterone.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Steel 0
QuoteQuote...testoserone...
I would have just thought this was a typo except you typed it this way nine times so I figure it's got to be on purpose.
If you're as well educated about these things as you snottily imply with your first sentence, I'm very excited to learn something from you. On the other hand, if you were just being snotty, it's back to normal around here.
So please explain the difference between testoserone and testosterone.
no difference just a mispelling. My spelling sucks but content matters more to me.
anyway for you. More testosterone will mean more sex drive not a different orientation.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
wmw999 2,545
What they're saying is that more or less testosterone in a prenatal environment may have an effect on development.
It's probably different for babies whose organs and brains are still deveoping and adults who have reached sexual maturity. Just a thought here.
It might be interesting to track some of the extremely premature babies (those who make it) as they age, to see if there's a point at which they are or aren't more or less likely to be homosexual based on not being in a womb for the last X months.
There aren't that many who have reached maturity yet, but it'll happen.
Wendy W.
It's probably different for babies whose organs and brains are still deveoping and adults who have reached sexual maturity. Just a thought here.
It might be interesting to track some of the extremely premature babies (those who make it) as they age, to see if there's a point at which they are or aren't more or less likely to be homosexual based on not being in a womb for the last X months.
There aren't that many who have reached maturity yet, but it'll happen.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteAdam may have gone beat up while younger and the mother could have developed a tendency of over protection.
It is highly possible that this child is 47xxy, a chromosonal variation more commonly known as Klinefelter Syndrome that shows up in every 1 out of 1000 males. KS is ofton overlooked in transgendered MtF persons. The extra x chromosone would account for this child identifying as female. This, however is not always the case for an 47xxy person, nor are all transgendered MtF 47xxy thus it has nothing to do with sexual orientation as most MtF tg individuals are highly attracted to women, making them translesbian. (in an odd(?) way that would make them gay)
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
billvon 3,076
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>True testoserone does contribute to muscular develpment but that
>is it. A high amount of testoserone produces a high sex drive for
> males as well as females . . .
Which is what I just said. Should he be 'fixed' so he does not get into fights over women, or get women pregnant? (After all, some parents may find such behavior undesireable, just as some parents find homosexuality undesireable.)
>is it. A high amount of testoserone produces a high sex drive for
> males as well as females . . .
Which is what I just said. Should he be 'fixed' so he does not get into fights over women, or get women pregnant? (After all, some parents may find such behavior undesireable, just as some parents find homosexuality undesireable.)
Steel 0
QuoteWhat they're saying is that more or less testosterone in a prenatal environment may have an effect on development.
.
Wendy W.
Actually it will definately have an effect on development, but mostly physical effects. All people are born female the presence of higher amounts of testoserone makes the clitorus develop into a penis and is eventually followed by all the other sexual differences. Higher amounts of estrogen develop more female characteristics all the way through puberty.
Still sexual orientation is most likely more of a mental thing than a physical thing. Transgenderism on the other hand is definately a difference in the brain. That is in the transexual sense. In the crossdresser / autogynopheliac / fetish sort of way, the brains show no significant developmental differences from the "normal" individuals.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Steel 0
Quote>True testoserone does contribute to muscular develpment but that
>is it. A high amount of testoserone produces a high sex drive for
> males as well as females . . .
Which is what I just said. Should he be 'fixed' so he does not get into fights over women, or get women pregnant? (After all, some parents may find such behavior undesireable, just as some parents find homosexuality undesireable.)
You said,
"If a boy likes full-contact sports, likes to strut about and brag,",
which I took to mean that if one has more testosterone, he must like full contact sports and to brag.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
billvon 3,076
Strutting about and bragging are mating behaviors. We see them in most mammals, humans included. Just watch two male pigeons going after a female; watch how they puff themselves up to look large and impressive.
Full-contact sports? In some cases I see that as an extension of the above, especially in young adults. (Perhaps you've heard the 'captain of the football team' used as a synonym for 'the guy who gets all the girls.') But since they are very recent developments in evolutionary terms that may not be valid.
Full-contact sports? In some cases I see that as an extension of the above, especially in young adults. (Perhaps you've heard the 'captain of the football team' used as a synonym for 'the guy who gets all the girls.') But since they are very recent developments in evolutionary terms that may not be valid.
This is what, I believe, Steel is refering to in difference in brain structure.
http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm
http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0106.htm
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
wmw999 2,545
Dang. I had a son; I saw him shortly after birth. That was one big clitorisQuoteAll people are born female the presence of higher amounts of testoserone makes the clitorus develop into a penis and is eventually followed by all the other sexual differences.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteAll people are born female
You had me fooled for a minute. I thought you might actually have something educational to say about endocrinology but this is just hilarious.
Is this really the sense of reality that we're battling against?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Steel 0
QuoteQuoteAll people are born female
You had me fooled for a minute. I thought you might actually have something educational to say about endocrinology but this is just hilarious.
Is this really the sense of reality that we're battling against?
Ok if you can't pick up on the obvious you can read here about androgen insensitivity http://www.geneclinics.org/profiles/androgen/details.html
Basically, what it means is that if the fetus is insensitive to testosterone, the child will not grow male genitalia, and will appear female because that is how all people start out before testoserone changes them. High amounts of estrogen to a developing fetus / child will develop breasts, fully develop a uterus and so on..., starting in conception and ending in puberty.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Steel 0
QuoteQuote
You had me fooled for a minute. I thought you might actually have something educational to say about endocrinology but this is just hilarious.
Is this really the sense of reality that we're battling against?
BTW. ignorance on the subject matter just means you need to read up and learn if you are interested. It doesn't mean you need to make snide remarks about spelling or how specific point is phrased.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Quote... about spelling or how specific point is phrased.
,
Typos are one thing but consistently misspelling the main subject of your argument NINE times is serious carelessness.
And claiming everyone is born female then boys grow penises later seriously calls into question not only your advanced biology training but also your basic hold on reality.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Steel 0
QuoteQuote... about spelling or how specific point is phrased.
,
Typos are one thing but consistently misspelling the main subject of your argument NINE times is serious carelessness.
And claiming everyone is born female then boys grow penises later seriously calls into question not only your advanced biology training but also your basic hold on reality.
Obviously, I didn't mean to say that everytime a baby was delivered that, that the doctor said, "Its a girl". If you had more knowledge on the subject matter you would have understood what I meant. But since you didn't and it left you confused, you could have just asked for clarification rather than made a smart ass comment.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
billvon 3,076
>that is how all people start out before testoserone changes them.
Well, we all start out as zygotes, and all zygotes look about the same (no penises or whatnot.) Along the way we differentiate into two sexes and develop secondary sexual characteristics. But we are born either male or female. Males have penises; females have clitorises, and they are already formed.
If things go wrong during development, such that testosterone does not function correctly (not produced, not reacted to) an XY child (i.e. genetically male) can present as a female phenotype. Conversely, an XX child can present as male; google "XX male syndrome." But children are not born with clitorises that later turn into penises.
Well, we all start out as zygotes, and all zygotes look about the same (no penises or whatnot.) Along the way we differentiate into two sexes and develop secondary sexual characteristics. But we are born either male or female. Males have penises; females have clitorises, and they are already formed.
If things go wrong during development, such that testosterone does not function correctly (not produced, not reacted to) an XY child (i.e. genetically male) can present as a female phenotype. Conversely, an XX child can present as male; google "XX male syndrome." But children are not born with clitorises that later turn into penises.
QuoteQuoteAll people are born female
You had me fooled for a minute. I thought you might actually have something educational to say about endocrinology but this is just hilarious.
Is this really the sense of reality that we're battling against?
I think what he's trying to say is that the default gender of a fetus is female, and requires the presence of certain hormones to make it male. This is why we sometimes have women who are XY, genetically male, because they either couldn't produce the hormone or are not sensitive to it.
QuoteObviously, I didn't mean to say that...
It might be obvious to you that you weren't saying something completely stupid, but when it's exactly what your words are saying, it isn't so obvious to everyone else.
And to be fair some of the other vigorously anti-gay members of dropzone.com often say things that are completely stupid and mean them.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Steel 0
QuoteQuote
And to be fair some of the other vigorously anti-gay members of dropzone.com often say things that are completely stupid and mean them.
The other? Is that your attempt at suggesting that I am anti-gay?
Lets be clear about this. Just because I don't support you in redefining marriage does not mean that I am anti-gay. I will have you know that at my wedding 9 years ago there was a gay couple that attended. Everybody in my family knew they were gay long before they were invited, none of us cared. However, they did not dance together, hold hands, make out or do anything that would make the rest of us naucious.
I know you wish your lifestyle was mainstream but its just not.
Also I do resent when people don't think for themselves. For instance, most of the gay population (yourself included) tends to be on the left of every single issue. I refuse to believe that all of you are tree hugging, anti-gun, vegitarians, in favor of partial birth abortions who want to live in a socialist regime. I think that you drink that liberal koolaid for one reason alone, because you think that the lefties are going to defend your lifestyle.
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
billvon 3,076
>Is that your attempt at suggesting that I am anti-gay?
>However, they did not dance together, hold hands, make out or do
>anything that would make the rest of us naucious.
Seeing gays be themselves makes you sick; yet you do not consider yourself to be anti-gay. Perfect.
>However, they did not dance together, hold hands, make out or do
>anything that would make the rest of us naucious.
Seeing gays be themselves makes you sick; yet you do not consider yourself to be anti-gay. Perfect.
Steel 0
Quote
>Is that your attempt at suggesting that I am anti-gay?
>However, they did not dance together, hold hands, make out or do
>anything that would make the rest of us naucious.
Seeing gays be themselves makes you sick; yet you do not consider yourself to be anti-gay. Perfect.
Anti-gay I think implies trying to put a stop to them. All I have said is I don't want to watch them in action. For that they have the privacy or their own home or gay clubs where they have an environment of like-minded people.
That is the key like-minded people. Because people like you will otherwise try to suggest that since there is nothing wrong with the bride and groom kissing in public then why not them. Still its clearly a different story, no matter how much you wish it was it was the same.
,
,
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.
I can't find the link, but your first statement is untrue. I think, however, that it's based on the lack of clarity in what I wrote. Extreme heterosexuals are rare, as are extreme homosexuals.
Your second statement is much closer to being true, although I'm not sure your basis for making it is related to the actual facts.
There are certainly more practicing heterosexuals than homosexuals. And as I tried to say, sexuality lies on a spectrum. I have lost the link to the Kinsey scale, but more people fall closer to the middle than you would think. And the Kinsey studes were done in the dark ages, not now, when people are far more prone to sexual experimentation.
For example, one of the top female sexual fantasies is lesbian sex. And a lot of women who watch porn watch lesbian porn. That may not mean most of them will ever have a lesbian encounter, but there is obviously no aversion to the idea.
rl
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites