SkyDekker 1,465 #26 March 17, 2006 QuoteIt appears the Lefties are just victims of "bad Intel", eh? Many people have lost their lives or limbs over your president's desire for war and his reliance on "bad intel".....It is good to see you find that a laughing matter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 March 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt appears the Lefties are just victims of "bad Intel", eh? Many people have lost their lives or limbs over your president's desire for war and his reliance on "bad intel".....It is good to see you find that a laughing matter That's about the response I expected. No argument based on the information, just take a personal pot shot. Really sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #28 March 17, 2006 QuoteThat's about the response I expected. No argument based on the information, just take a personal pot shot. Really sad. What argument is there to make. There is no argument until I see some one from the right admitting that they fucked up. Since the US Right seems unable to realize they fucked up, there isn't much of an argument. In the mean time, you seem to think it is all one big joke as people continue to die over your countries fuck up.... It is not a pot shot, it is pretty serious if you ask me. Your economy is tanking. Your currency is tanking. Your debt is so large the children of your great-grand children will be paying for it. Yet, most people are so blinded that they don't even care. yet, the US right seems to continue to tell everybody that all is peachy keen, it is just the bad media telling you lies.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 March 17, 2006 Quoteit is just the bad media telling you lies.... Which is exactly what this thread is about. How the US media lies to the public about the conditions in Iraq. If you want to discuss anything else, go start another thread. QuoteIn the mean time, you seem to think it is all one big joke as people continue to die over your countries fuck up.... For the record, I do consider this a personal attack. You might want to re-educate yourself before you continue the rant. Have you read any of the documents coming out of Iraq? http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #30 March 17, 2006 QuoteYour economy is tanking. Your currency is tanking. wow...with economic insights like that, you must've been an english major huh? wait, i must be blinded...never mind."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #31 March 17, 2006 Quotewow...with economic insights like that, you must've been an english major huh? wait, i must be blinded...never mind. Nope, English is a second language for me. One I didn't learn to speak or write until I was well into my teens. I guess you aren't really worried about your countries economy? You truly believe all is peachy keen and things are going well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #32 March 17, 2006 what are my choices? you are implying that things are either peachy keen and fine or, they are catastrophically abismal. well, i think that the american economy is far closer to peachy keen than the latter, that's for sure. ...and it's "country's" when you're using it as a possessive noun. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #33 March 17, 2006 Quote...and it's "country's" when you're using it as a possessive noun. Which shows I am clearly not an English Major. ...and "I" is in upper case in any usage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #34 March 17, 2006 > Hope you don't mind if I form my opinions based on information >from those who have actually been to Iraq and seen what's going on first > hand, as opposed to what others read in the morning newspapers and >internet blogs. And so you posted something you read on the net to prove your point. Perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #35 March 17, 2006 QuoteWhich shows I am clearly not an English Major. ...and "I" is in upper case in any usage. i don't think i've ever typed a capitalized i on this site (except my sig lines). your quote is ironic though..."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,112 #36 March 17, 2006 QuoteIt appears the Lefties are just victims of "bad Intel", eh? Perhaps it is they who need the tin foil hats to filter out the negative bullshit. Thanks for your service Mike, you too CDRINE. - The numbers of dead and wounded Americans are very well verified and the number of dead Iraqis are pretty accurate too. Iraq is a shambles and the words of your hero GWB in 2003 have rung false in just about every respect. You take a couple of anecdotes and place more reliance on them than on hard data.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #37 March 17, 2006 Quotei don't think i've ever typed a capitalized i on this site (except my sig lines). your quote is ironic though... Not once you realize that the quotation marks around the I indicate that it is meant as usage like that, no incorporated with other letters into words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #38 March 18, 2006 Quote> Hope you don't mind if I form my opinions based on information >from those who have actually been to Iraq and seen what's going on first > hand, as opposed to what others read in the morning newspapers and >internet blogs. And so you posted something you read on the net to prove your point. Perfect. No, I posted something written by someone who has been to Iraq instead of sitting home reading the morning newspaper. Isn't it interesting how he describes the news gathering process you cherish so much? I find it laughable that this is the process people put credibilty in. QuoteThe dangerous nature of journalism in Iraq has created a new phenomenon, the all-powerful local stringer. Unwilling to stray too far from secure facilities and their bodyguards, reporters rely heavily on Iraqi assistance in gathering news. And Iraqi stringers, some of whom have their own political agendas, long ago figured out that Americans prefer bad news to good news. The Iraqi leg-men earn blood money for unbalanced, often-hysterical claims, while the Journalism 101 rule of seeking confirmation from a second source has been discarded in the pathetic race for headlines. To enhance their own indispensability, Iraqi stringers exaggerate the danger to Western journalists (which is real enough, but need not paralyze a determined reporter). Dependence on the unverified reports of local hires has become the dirty secret of semi-celebrity journalism in Iraq as Western journalists succumb to a version of Stockholm Syndrome in which they convince themselves that their Iraqi sources and stringers are exceptions to every failing and foible in the Middle East. The mindset resembles the old colonialist conviction that, while other "boys" might lie and steal, our house-boy's a faithful servant. But I guess the stuff you and others post that was gathered this way is credible, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,080 #39 March 19, 2006 > I find it laughable that this is the process people put credibilty in. Right! It's only credible if it supports your side. If it doesn't, there must be some complex reason it's completely baseless. >No, I posted something written by someone who has been to Iraq . . . Something you read on the net, written by an american visitor in Baghdad, then? If you find that credible, surely you will put even more value on the opinion of someone who actually lives there: ------------- Airstrikes also risk civilian casualties, driving a wedge between American forces and Iraqis, Iraqis say. Osama Jadaan al Dulaimi, a tribal leader in the western town of Karabilah, a town near the Syrian border that was hit with bombs or missiles on at least 17 days between October 2005 and February 2006, said the bombings had created enemies. "The people of Karabilah hate the foreigners who crossed the border and entered their areas and got into a fight with the Americans," al Dulaimi said. "The residents now also hate the American occupiers who demolished their houses with bombs and killed their families ... and now the people of Karabilah want to join the resistance against the Americans for what they did." ---------- http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/world/14098281.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_world (I know, I know, who cares what Iraqis think, but interesting nonetheless, no?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #40 March 19, 2006 How do you know your information wasn't gathered by Stringers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #41 March 19, 2006 >Right! It's only credible if it supports your side. If it doesn't, there must be some complex reason it's completely baseless.< Having some trouble here?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CDRINF 1 #42 March 19, 2006 Here is a rather timely retraction that I believe pretty much says it all on this subject. As I said earlier, it is more about sloppy, lazy reporting going for the sensational headline and quick buck, than it is about bias. New York Times March 18, 2006 Editors' Note A front-page article last Saturday profiled Ali Shalal Qaissi, identifying him as the hooded man forced to stand on a box, attached to wires, in a photograph from the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal of 2003 and 2004. He was shown holding such a photograph. As an article on Page A1 today makes clear, Mr. Qaissi was not that man. The Times did not adequately research Mr. Qaissi's insistence that he was the man in the photograph. Mr. Qaissi's account had already been broadcast and printed by other outlets, including PBS and Vanity Fair, without challenge. Lawyers for former prisoners at Abu Ghraib vouched for him. Human rights workers seemed to support his account. The Pentagon, asked for verification, declined to confirm or deny it. Despite the previous reports, The Times should have been more persistent in seeking comment from the military. A more thorough examination of previous articles in The Times and other newspapers would have shown that in 2004 military investigators named another man as the one on the box, raising suspicions about Mr. Qaissi's claim. The Times also overstated the conviction with which representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International expressed their view of whether Mr. Qaissi was the man in the photograph. While they said he could well be that man, they did not say they believed he was. Editor's Note: The article by Hassan M. Fattah appeared in the Current News Early Bird, March 11, 2006. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #43 March 19, 2006 It really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yourmomma 0 #44 March 19, 2006 No one who cares, ever said we lost the war. We are LOSING the objective of the war: which was to create stability and democracy in the middle east by eliminating weapons of mass destruction. On those counts we have failed. When Saddam was in power their were several things that existed which are far from attainable than at this point. The fact that Saddam killed 10's of thousands of Kurds and Sunni is irrlelevant, this was not the justification for the war.Like the old cliche one mans freedom fighter is another man's terrorist/enemy. Thank you for your service but, like the media ,having your boots on the ground does not qualify to to adequately/accurately describe the situation that has existed and festered for longer than we have needed to obtain stability in the region. And by the by, Iraq,the cradle of life, has been pillaged by looters/profiteers/capitalists beyond description. The amount of history which was lost is unforgivable only because this administration was told it would happen and did little if anything to prevent it. As they were told was nessicary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,112 #45 March 19, 2006 QuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CDRINF 1 #46 March 19, 2006 Never claimed to have all the answers and am not arguing why we went there in the first place. All I said is that my personal observations on the ground and what I am seeing on T.V. and in the papers do not match. Not even close. The real issue of the war (and by this I mean the larger war against radical Islam) is the American peoples' will to see it through. Our enemy knows this better than we do. They want to break our will to continue the fight so that we withdraw from the region. If we lose the will of the American people, this war is over. Unfortunately, that will is being influenced by inaccurate and sloppy reporting. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,080 #47 March 19, 2006 >Having some trouble here? Not at all, now that I understand where you're coming from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #48 March 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,112 #49 March 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Dunno if he has credibilty or not, but he's on the spot and you aren't.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #50 March 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Dunno if he has credibilty or not, but he's on the spot and you aren't. You are slippery, I will give you that.........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Gravitymaster 0 #38 March 18, 2006 Quote> Hope you don't mind if I form my opinions based on information >from those who have actually been to Iraq and seen what's going on first > hand, as opposed to what others read in the morning newspapers and >internet blogs. And so you posted something you read on the net to prove your point. Perfect. No, I posted something written by someone who has been to Iraq instead of sitting home reading the morning newspaper. Isn't it interesting how he describes the news gathering process you cherish so much? I find it laughable that this is the process people put credibilty in. QuoteThe dangerous nature of journalism in Iraq has created a new phenomenon, the all-powerful local stringer. Unwilling to stray too far from secure facilities and their bodyguards, reporters rely heavily on Iraqi assistance in gathering news. And Iraqi stringers, some of whom have their own political agendas, long ago figured out that Americans prefer bad news to good news. The Iraqi leg-men earn blood money for unbalanced, often-hysterical claims, while the Journalism 101 rule of seeking confirmation from a second source has been discarded in the pathetic race for headlines. To enhance their own indispensability, Iraqi stringers exaggerate the danger to Western journalists (which is real enough, but need not paralyze a determined reporter). Dependence on the unverified reports of local hires has become the dirty secret of semi-celebrity journalism in Iraq as Western journalists succumb to a version of Stockholm Syndrome in which they convince themselves that their Iraqi sources and stringers are exceptions to every failing and foible in the Middle East. The mindset resembles the old colonialist conviction that, while other "boys" might lie and steal, our house-boy's a faithful servant. But I guess the stuff you and others post that was gathered this way is credible, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #39 March 19, 2006 > I find it laughable that this is the process people put credibilty in. Right! It's only credible if it supports your side. If it doesn't, there must be some complex reason it's completely baseless. >No, I posted something written by someone who has been to Iraq . . . Something you read on the net, written by an american visitor in Baghdad, then? If you find that credible, surely you will put even more value on the opinion of someone who actually lives there: ------------- Airstrikes also risk civilian casualties, driving a wedge between American forces and Iraqis, Iraqis say. Osama Jadaan al Dulaimi, a tribal leader in the western town of Karabilah, a town near the Syrian border that was hit with bombs or missiles on at least 17 days between October 2005 and February 2006, said the bombings had created enemies. "The people of Karabilah hate the foreigners who crossed the border and entered their areas and got into a fight with the Americans," al Dulaimi said. "The residents now also hate the American occupiers who demolished their houses with bombs and killed their families ... and now the people of Karabilah want to join the resistance against the Americans for what they did." ---------- http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/world/14098281.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_world (I know, I know, who cares what Iraqis think, but interesting nonetheless, no?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 March 19, 2006 How do you know your information wasn't gathered by Stringers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 March 19, 2006 >Right! It's only credible if it supports your side. If it doesn't, there must be some complex reason it's completely baseless.< Having some trouble here?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #42 March 19, 2006 Here is a rather timely retraction that I believe pretty much says it all on this subject. As I said earlier, it is more about sloppy, lazy reporting going for the sensational headline and quick buck, than it is about bias. New York Times March 18, 2006 Editors' Note A front-page article last Saturday profiled Ali Shalal Qaissi, identifying him as the hooded man forced to stand on a box, attached to wires, in a photograph from the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal of 2003 and 2004. He was shown holding such a photograph. As an article on Page A1 today makes clear, Mr. Qaissi was not that man. The Times did not adequately research Mr. Qaissi's insistence that he was the man in the photograph. Mr. Qaissi's account had already been broadcast and printed by other outlets, including PBS and Vanity Fair, without challenge. Lawyers for former prisoners at Abu Ghraib vouched for him. Human rights workers seemed to support his account. The Pentagon, asked for verification, declined to confirm or deny it. Despite the previous reports, The Times should have been more persistent in seeking comment from the military. A more thorough examination of previous articles in The Times and other newspapers would have shown that in 2004 military investigators named another man as the one on the box, raising suspicions about Mr. Qaissi's claim. The Times also overstated the conviction with which representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International expressed their view of whether Mr. Qaissi was the man in the photograph. While they said he could well be that man, they did not say they believed he was. Editor's Note: The article by Hassan M. Fattah appeared in the Current News Early Bird, March 11, 2006. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #43 March 19, 2006 It really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #44 March 19, 2006 No one who cares, ever said we lost the war. We are LOSING the objective of the war: which was to create stability and democracy in the middle east by eliminating weapons of mass destruction. On those counts we have failed. When Saddam was in power their were several things that existed which are far from attainable than at this point. The fact that Saddam killed 10's of thousands of Kurds and Sunni is irrlelevant, this was not the justification for the war.Like the old cliche one mans freedom fighter is another man's terrorist/enemy. Thank you for your service but, like the media ,having your boots on the ground does not qualify to to adequately/accurately describe the situation that has existed and festered for longer than we have needed to obtain stability in the region. And by the by, Iraq,the cradle of life, has been pillaged by looters/profiteers/capitalists beyond description. The amount of history which was lost is unforgivable only because this administration was told it would happen and did little if anything to prevent it. As they were told was nessicary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,112 #45 March 19, 2006 QuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #46 March 19, 2006 Never claimed to have all the answers and am not arguing why we went there in the first place. All I said is that my personal observations on the ground and what I am seeing on T.V. and in the papers do not match. Not even close. The real issue of the war (and by this I mean the larger war against radical Islam) is the American peoples' will to see it through. Our enemy knows this better than we do. They want to break our will to continue the fight so that we withdraw from the region. If we lose the will of the American people, this war is over. Unfortunately, that will is being influenced by inaccurate and sloppy reporting. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #47 March 19, 2006 >Having some trouble here? Not at all, now that I understand where you're coming from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #48 March 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,112 #49 March 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Dunno if he has credibilty or not, but he's on the spot and you aren't.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #50 March 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt really is sad what passes for journalism these days isn't it. The only thing sadder is those who ignore first hand information and instead choose to believe them. - Like information from the previous Prime Minister of Iraq: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/19/uirq.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/19/ixportaltop.html Oh, I thought Allawi had no credibility? Or did you forget this thread. Make up your mind, or does he only have credibility when he ssays something you like? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1662459#1662459 - Dunno if he has credibilty or not, but he's on the spot and you aren't. You are slippery, I will give you that.........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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