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billvon

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....or did their negative thoughts cause it to happen????



That's exactly what gravitymaster said:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2097823;search_string=psychic;#2097820

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It is said people can think the worst into being. Start thinking too much about a parachute malfunction and guess what.....it's bound to happen. Get too focused on avoiding the runway... guess what?

So congratulations to the efforts of those of the fifth column. All the media hype and hysteria about early withdrawl, berating our troops etc once again you have suceeded. I truely hope you are proud of yourselves. Here's a big pat on the back!!!




First Class Citizen Twice Over

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dude, you forgot the lead-in...ya need it to have the whole thing make sense.... ;)

add this, at the beginning (although it is not technically the beginning)

And a good south wind sprung up behind ;
The Albatross did follow,
And every day, for food or play,
Came to the mariner's hollo !

In mist or cloud, on mast or shroud,
It perched for vespers nine ;
Whiles all the night, through fog-smoke white,
Glimmered the white Moon-shine.'

`God save thee, ancient Mariner !
From the fiends, that plague thee thus !--
Why look'st thou so ?'--With my cross-bow
I shot the ALBATROSS.

Out of the sea came he,
Still hid in mist, and on the left
Went down into the sea.

The sun now rose upon the right
And the good south wind still blew behind,
But no sweet bird did follow,
Nor any day for food or play
Came to the mariners' hollo !
...

the rhyme of the ancient mariner. excellent use of it though, i must say...damn!
Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

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>Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?

You should set a timetable and try to meet it. If you fail, then you set another one and try to meet _that._ If you fail enough then you get someone else to do the job.

If you got a bill from the phone company, and they said "pay it whenever; there's no due date or late fees" when would you pay it?



Interesting comparison. Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation
>well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?

Well, let's see. Perhaps you could gather a group - say, 30 or so - of international experts, exiled Iraqis and US policymakers - and ask them to come up with a plan to figure out how to rebuild Iraq. You could spend a few million on this, perhaps create a dozen or so committees to figure out how to deal with everything from rebuilding infrastructure to transitioning the army over to setting up a justice system. Then act on their recommendations.

Except - wait a minute! - we did that. Of course the administration then ignored their conclusions and classified their report. An FOIA request finally got it released. Check it out below if you like. Good ideas, but now it's far too late to execute them.

The endless "what would you do if you're so smart?" thing is getting really old. We've been saying what we'd do for three years now, and every time we _do_ say something, we are ridiculed and scorned. ("Us" meaning liberals who are for peace.) Then, six months later when it turns out we were right, the refrain is "that's so last year. What will you do NOW?"

It puts me in mind of a guy who gets a woman really drunk and tries to do her. "Don't do that; it's a mistake" I tell him. He does it anyway. She gets pregnant. "Talk to her about it." He ignores me; calls me an idiot and her a bitch. She has the kid. "Go see her and work it out," I tell him. He calls me a suck-up and wonders aloud if I'm on her side. She sues him for child support. I tell him to pay it. He says I am a pathetic excuse for a man. He gets arrested and put in jail for nonpayment. I go and visit him.

"So what do I do NOW?" he asks. "How can I get a job when I'm in jail? Why can't you do anything but whine, bitch and complain? Why don't you give me some ANSWERS if you think you're so smart!"

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>Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation
>well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?

Well, let's see. Perhaps you could gather a group - say, 30 or so - of international experts, exiled Iraqis and US policymakers - and ask them to come up with a plan to figure out how to rebuild Iraq. You could spend a few million on this, perhaps create a dozen or so committees to figure out how to deal with everything from rebuilding infrastructure to transitioning the army over to setting up a justice system. Then act on their recommendations.

Except - wait a minute! - we did that. Of course the administration then ignored their conclusions and classified their report. An FOIA request finally got it released. Check it out below if you like. Good ideas, but now it's far too late to execute them.

The endless "what would you do if you're so smart?" thing is getting really old. We've been saying what we'd do for three years now, and every time we _do_ say something, we are ridiculed and scorned. ("Us" meaning liberals who are for peace.) Then, six months later when it turns out we were right, the refrain is "that's so last year. What will you do NOW?"

It puts me in mind of a guy who gets a woman really drunk and tries to do her. "Don't do that; it's a mistake" I tell him. He does it anyway. She gets pregnant. "Talk to her about it." He ignores me; calls me an idiot and her a bitch. She has the kid. "Go see her and work it out," I tell him. He calls me a suck-up and wonders aloud if I'm on her side. She sues him for child support. I tell him to pay it. He says I am a pathetic excuse for a man. He gets arrested and put in jail for nonpayment. I go and visit him.

"So what do I do NOW?" he asks. "How can I get a job when I'm in jail? Why can't you do anything but whine, bitch and complain? Why don't you give me some ANSWERS if you think you're so smart!"



Hell yes, I should have known you would have the perfect answer, throw around acusation and inuendo and in the end, not answer my question.

I am quite glad I do not live in your world........
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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So if you are not on the right or the left (as in democrat or republican), if you don't see the world in black and white, you are living in a world of bullshit?

Is that what you are saying?



I'd think you are surrounded by a world of bullshit. Piled high on your right and piled high on your left.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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....or did their negative thoughts cause it to happen????



That's exactly what gravitymaster said:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2097823;search_string=psychic;#2097820

Quote

It is said people can think the worst into being. Start thinking too much about a parachute malfunction and guess what.....it's bound to happen. Get too focused on avoiding the runway... guess what?

So congratulations to the efforts of those of the fifth column. All the media hype and hysteria about early withdrawl, berating our troops etc once again you have suceeded. I truely hope you are proud of yourselves. Here's a big pat on the back!!!



and I stand by the original meaning of it. Unfortunately, many without the ability to understand what I'm saying have chosen to morph it. Pretty normal to laugh and make fun of something you don't understand. We used to do it alot in High School.

If the US could get Bin Ladens Lieutenants and the Mullahs in Iraq to say the same things about Bin Laden that the left says about Bush, we could declare victory and leave.

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To borrow some Suicidal Tendencies lyrics, "Just because YOU don't understand it, don't mean it don't make no sense...."

Is that what you're saying??? I think I got your meaning to begin with. I just think it's silly. Kinda like all those people who kept hounding Clinton about his affairs caused him to get that famous blow job....lol. Then you called him dishonest and caused him to lie about it. Heh....

linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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To borrow some Suicidal Tendencies lyrics, "Just because YOU don't understand it, don't mean it don't make no sense...."

Is that what you're saying??? I think I got your meaning to begin with. I just think it's silly. Kinda like all those people who kept hounding Clinton about his affairs caused him to get that famous blow job....lol. Then you called him dishonest and caused him to lie about it. Heh....

linz



Apparently you still don't get it. But if you want to talk about Clintons BJ's instead, be my guest. Seems rather childish to me, though.

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>Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?

You should set a timetable and try to meet it. If you fail, then you set another one and try to meet _that._ If you fail enough then you get someone else to do the job.

If you got a bill from the phone company, and they said "pay it whenever; there's no due date or late fees" when would you pay it?



Interesting comparison. Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?



Eisenhower's invasion and its aftermath dwarfed this one. Of course, the French, Belgians and Dutch actually wanted to be liberated.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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GravityMaster has a history of blaming the left for this administration's inability to conduct this war effectively.



and you have a long history of blaming everything on Bush. Look at me as a counterbalance to the hysterical left.

Edited to add: Funny how in a thread about flip-flopping, you point out my consistency. :ph34r::ph34r:

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just goes to show you can't ever please liberals....

you leave the troops in, they're pissed.
you change you're mind to withdraw, they're still pissed.



Go to Congress with cherrypicked intelligence, they vote for it, then learn of the truth and impending horror and want it ended and they're pissed.

Can't please em all, huh?

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Keep in mind that not everyone sees things in black and white.




right, there are those that sit in the middle, doing nothing save taking pot shots at both sides.



Some issues are inconclusive with available info, so to decide you need to make a radical decision is irresponsible.

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>Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?

You should set a timetable and try to meet it. If you fail, then you set another one and try to meet _that._ If you fail enough then you get someone else to do the job.

If you got a bill from the phone company, and they said "pay it whenever; there's no due date or late fees" when would you pay it?



Interesting comparison. Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?



A massive question, but here goes.

Initially, decide why you as a leader are so prone to want to go to war. You're mad at an independant operative, so you want to conquer a leader. Does that make sense? Was there an ulterior motive? Are you just making a statement to the world?

Next, if you decide you need to attack, conquer, change the entire government, or whatever the agenda, you then need to establish the logistics of the mission. With this, you would establish the cost, the time, and the loss potential.

You need to establish whet the agenda is in order to establish any/all of what the protocol and logistics are going to be. Are we there for another Viet Nam? Are we there as a Gulf War action to correct and fly out?

Things aren't that simple so that we can just play em by ear and that's exactly what Bush did, he decided he wanted to go to war, then decided why and how long after we were in there. I believe Bush wanted to be a war president at whatever cost; even Reagan wasn't that arrogant.

But that is a general overview of how a president should responsibly go to war, mission, agenda, logistics, etc..... where were these?

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GravityMaster has a history of blaming the left for this administration's inability to conduct this war effectively.



and you have a long history of blaming everything on Bush. Look at me as a counterbalance to the hysterical left.

Edited to add: Funny how in a thread about flip-flopping, you point out my consistency. :ph34r::ph34r:



How is the left to blame for the gaffs of the last 5 years? Please list.

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>Hell yes, I should have known you would have the perfect answer . . .

And the cycle repeats.

"Oh yeah, if you're so smart, what should we do?"

"We should do X."

"OK, so X would work. Let's not do it. What do we do NOW? Why do you always criticize and badmouth without giving any ANSWERS?"

>I am quite glad I do not live in your world........

Indeed. The reality-based community is a scary place. Fortunately the community of Bush supporters has a rosier view of reality, one that's tailored to fit. From a 2004 story, quoting a Bush aide:

----------------
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. "
----------------

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>Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation
>well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?

Well, let's see. Perhaps you could gather a group - say, 30 or so - of international experts, exiled Iraqis and US policymakers - and ask them to come up with a plan to figure out how to rebuild Iraq. You could spend a few million on this, perhaps create a dozen or so committees to figure out how to deal with everything from rebuilding infrastructure to transitioning the army over to setting up a justice system. Then act on their recommendations.



Hell yes, I should have known you would have the perfect answer, throw around acusation and inuendo and in the end, not answer my question.

I am quite glad I do not live in your world........



What do you call that first paragraph in his response, if not an answer?

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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>Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?

You should set a timetable and try to meet it. If you fail, then you set another one and try to meet _that._ If you fail enough then you get someone else to do the job.

If you got a bill from the phone company, and they said "pay it whenever; there's no due date or late fees" when would you pay it?



Interesting comparison. Who would you suggest could plan and foresee this large of operation well enough to be able to plan good enough to satisfy your requirments?



A massive question, but here goes.

Initially, decide why you as a leader are so prone to want to go to war. You're mad at an independant operative, so you want to conquer a leader. Does that make sense? Was there an ulterior motive? Are you just making a statement to the world?

Next, if you decide you need to attack, conquer, change the entire government, or whatever the agenda, you then need to establish the logistics of the mission. With this, you would establish the cost, the time, and the loss potential.

You need to establish whet the agenda is in order to establish any/all of what the protocol and logistics are going to be. Are we there for another Viet Nam? Are we there as a Gulf War action to correct and fly out?

Things aren't that simple so that we can just play em by ear and that's exactly what Bush did, he decided he wanted to go to war, then decided why and how long after we were in there. I believe Bush wanted to be a war president at whatever cost; even Reagan wasn't that arrogant.

But that is a general overview of how a president should responsibly go to war, mission, agenda, logistics, etc..... where were these?



Wow, I did not know you could read minds?? I AM impressed............
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Just a friendly reminder to Bush supporters that it's time to 180 on the whole timetable thing. Summary -
June 2005: Timetable is bad, helps the enemy
January/March 2006: Timetable is set and is a good thing

-----------------
No Iraq withdrawal timetable - Bush
Olivier Knox
Sat, 25 Jun 2005
US President George W. Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari on Friday ruled out setting a date for pulling US forces out of Iraq amid a rising death toll and shrinking US support for the war.

. . .

"Why would you say to the enemy: 'Here's a timetable. Just go ahead and wait us out'?" Bush asked rhetorically. "It doesn't make any sense to have a timetable."
------------------
Bush Sets Target for Transition in Iraq
Country's Troops to Take Lead This Year

By Peter Baker
Tuesday, March 14, 2006; 11:36 AM

President Bush vowed yesterday to turn over most of Iraq to newly trained Iraqi troops by the end of this year, setting a specific benchmark as he kicked off a fresh drive to reassure Americans alarmed by the recent burst of sectarian violence.

------------------



As situations change should not a good leader adjust his/her position/time table/plan of attack? I am not talking just about Bush.

Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?



Very fair question; and yes, EVERYONE should remain open to change and the possibilities it offers. The problem is that this administration has executed so poorly and made such ineffective initial decisions, that they will not get out of the hole they are in.

Funny thing is, with such poor performance, real change could have been a way out; but instead they have dug in their heels with a stay-the-course mentality.

This has to be the worst administration in my lifetime when it comes to imposing their own personal values on our citizenry. I thought they were supposed to represent us; not say whatever it takes to get elected and then impose their divinely inspired personal goals on all of us.

It's very good to see the number of people fed up with it is growing.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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GravityMaster has a history of blaming the left for this administration's inability to conduct this war effectively.



and you have a long history of blaming everything on Bush. Look at me as a counterbalance to the hysterical left.

Edited to add: Funny how in a thread about flip-flopping, you point out my consistency. :ph34r::ph34r:



How is the left to blame for the gaffs of the last 5 years? Please list.



Is this Jenfly01? Something mighty familiar here and I noticed you just registered recently.

I'm not blaming the left exclusively. I'm saying they are complicit.

Here's a post a few down from the one Masterblaster attempted to mischaractrize me with:

Quote

I put a lot of blame on Bush. I'm pissed off about our border security and I'm pissed off about the way he has conducted the war. Were Bush able to run again, I probably wouldn't vote for him unless the Dems ran someone like Kerry or Dean again.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1799938#1799938



But back on topic. I have said this about 3 times so far and haven't gotten an answer yet. If every day when you got up you heard the Mullahs in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan saying what a dumb shit OBL is and how he was the worst leader the Muslim world has ever had, would you conclude we had won? Would you be encouraged to continue the fight because you knew it was only a matter of time before we defeated him? Or would you think we were losing and needed to pull our troops out?

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Just a friendly reminder to Bush supporters that it's time to 180 on the whole timetable thing. Summary -
June 2005: Timetable is bad, helps the enemy
January/March 2006: Timetable is set and is a good thing

-----------------
No Iraq withdrawal timetable - Bush
Olivier Knox
Sat, 25 Jun 2005
US President George W. Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari on Friday ruled out setting a date for pulling US forces out of Iraq amid a rising death toll and shrinking US support for the war.

. . .

"Why would you say to the enemy: 'Here's a timetable. Just go ahead and wait us out'?" Bush asked rhetorically. "It doesn't make any sense to have a timetable."
------------------
Bush Sets Target for Transition in Iraq
Country's Troops to Take Lead This Year

By Peter Baker
Tuesday, March 14, 2006; 11:36 AM

President Bush vowed yesterday to turn over most of Iraq to newly trained Iraqi troops by the end of this year, setting a specific benchmark as he kicked off a fresh drive to reassure Americans alarmed by the recent burst of sectarian violence.

------------------



As situations change should not a good leader adjust his/her position/time table/plan of attack? I am not talking just about Bush.

Or should you set a time table and stick with it even as things change?



Very fair question; and yes, EVERYONE should remain open to change and the possibilities it offers. The problem is that this administration has executed so poorly and made such ineffective initial decisions, that they will not get out of the hole they are in.

Funny thing is, with such poor performance, real change could have been a way out; but instead they have dug in their heels with a stay-the-course mentality.

This has to be the worst administration in my lifetime when it comes to imposing their own personal values on our citizenry. I thought they were supposed to represent us; not say whatever it takes to get elected and then impose their divinely inspired personal goals on all of us.

It's very good to see the number of people fed up with it is growing.


I start to read your post, I get to middle of the first pharagraph and I quit because I do not agree with your premise.........
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Is this Jenfly01?



if it is, then it's a kinder gentler Jenfly. Just as partisan, but at least with better and more courteous discussion - it's a good thing, don't knock it

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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