Who is the worst US president in recent history

[SkyDekker 1,465]

The title says it all.

Am wondering who people will pick as the worst US president in recent history. Please provide an explanation for your choice.

[masterrig 1]

I wanted to vote for two. Nixon, for all he 'pulled' and Ford for pardoning Nixon.


Chuck

[wmw999 2,589]

Nixon would have been a really good president had he not had that dishonest core. I didn't care for many of his policies, but they were well thought-out, and weren't all about bolstering our power at the expense of others.

But man, that dishonest core was a doozy.

It's hard to judge someone the worst for a single facet or event (e.g. pardoning Nixon, which actually I agree with -- he was thoroughly disgraced, and we did move on in retrospect).

I'd have to put GWB down (no surprise here). The one-sidedness of his apparent world view, his willingness to ignore evidence that doesn't agree with his world view, and his willingness to surround himself with people who aggressively agree with him in this one-sidedness seem to indicate someone who would rather live in his own little world rather than deal with the world he lives in.

As President of the US, he can try to make the world into what he would like it to be, but it's not going to stay made. Just because people would like the world to be a particular way (i.e. like the mid-50's for middle-class suburban whites in the US) doesn't mean it will happen. No matter how hard they wish. And pandering to that heartfelt wish is not the sign of a good President.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mnealtx 0]

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And pandering to that heartfelt wish is not the sign of a good President

Strongly agreed - unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course for all politicians for the last 20 years or so.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Thanks Wendy, as usual a very wel written response from you. I agree with you as well.

I would like to hear the argument from the people who have voted for others, as to why they believe that person was the worst president.

[racer42 0]

GWB without a doubt. Wendy is right the rest of the world will refuse to conform to his idea of the way things should be.

This is the danger of the current administration and their inability to see beyond their own narrow view of "rightousness".

Even Nixon at his most paranoid wasn't this dangerous.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[rickjump1 0]

Johnson.I believe Johnson and his cronies were responsible for the needless deaths of Americans in Vietnam. I believe he did it for money and I believe he was an idiot for trying to run the war from his desk with friends like Robert McNamera. I also wonder what part he played in the assination of President Kennedy.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[lawrocket 3]

Goodness, this is actually a tougher poll than I thought it would be.

I tend to view FDR with a particular contempt. More than any POTUS, FDR set the stage for the mafia-boss POTUS, the massive centralization of government, and the modern class warfare system that put special interests ahead of everything else. Our modern life of governmental interference, tax structure, and "entitlement" mentality find a solid foundation with this POTUS.

I'd also count Johnson as a tough one for his leadership in the massive development of the welfare state in America. While his civil rights legislation deserves kudos, his taking of FDR's centralized government power system to a higher level does not sit well with me. Furthermore, his mismanagement of the Vietnam conflict and foreign policy was a lowlight of history.

Bush, Jr. He almost came in first. Take the worst of Johnson's warmaking with the worst of FDR's expansive government, Johnson's warmaking and Nixon's "president is king" mentality and GWB's administration appears.

Guys I won't include:
I did not include Nixon. Despite his numerous and large faults, the guy did an awesome job with foreign policy. He got us out of Vietnam and reached out to China.

Clinton. I thought he was worse than Nixon in some ways (Nixon lied to protect his friends and Admnistration - Clinton got his Adminstration and friends to lie to protect him). But Clinton did an acceptable job. In may ways he lucked into an economy due to timing. He was also lucky enough to have a Republican Congress after 1994 - remember that Republican landslide was the result of Clinton's unchecked power grab with Dems in Congress. Had Clinton been up for reelection in 1992 he would have lost. 1994 turned Clinton into a pragmatist. A mob boss, but a pragmatist who did well in that role.

Carter - some of the worst economic policies of a president. But other than that, he was relatively harmless. A guy who went into the presidency an idealist and emerged a reluctant realist. Perhaps he was too smart for his own good.

Truman - I disagree with his attempts to federalize steel production assets, but a generally harmless guy (we can't view his authorizing of the A-bombs with our present-day armchair quarterbacking).

Ike - was actually a better POTUS than he is credited for.

Kennedy - not a half-bad POTUS. A great guy for bringing national unity.

Bush, Sr. - not a bad POTUS. He did set the model for presidential warmaking. The economy? Well, it wasn't that great but also was not exactly as bad as people made it out to be.

Reagan - the greatest, in my opinion. Not the smartest dude, but smart enough to realize that he wasn't. So he surrounded himself with people who were like minded and some of the smartest around. We just felt good about Uncle Ronnie.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[racer42 0]

Interesting take on FDR. The man who was saddled with the worst economic situation since Reconstruction. His methods of dealing with the Depression in hindsight are often credited with the things you mention. Massive centralization and the class warfare.

Class warfare has always existed in this country and will likely remain that way for sometime. Price we pay for a "free market " society.

However, I do disagree with the massive centralization of Government. I certaintly agree that the New Deal was perhaps the genesis of the current size of government, but I also think that the Cold War and the Great Society had much larger and longer lasting effect and will continue to do so.

Both political parties have deeply entrenched constituents that now require the continuation of a massive Federal government.

In addition the American people now require it also.

Anyway, at least we can sit here and carp at each other's political opinions and not get jailed for it.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[lawrocket 3]

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Interesting take on FDR. The man who was saddled with the worst economic situation since Reconstruction. His methods of dealing with the Depression in hindsight are often credited with the things you mention. Massive centralization and the class warfare.

There are many who argue (and I believe) that his policies greatly extended the Depression by preventing the market correction from stabilizing. Indeed, it took WWII to bring us out of it.

FDR and his thinkers thought business was to blame for the Depression, due to their profits and unequal power. So FDR empowered great federal regulation (why can you be pinched by the feds for buying pot in a state that allows it to be legally prescribed? Thank FDR) to control the economy. He also implemented Keynes's idea to increase deficits when the economy is slow to aid employment.

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I do disagree with the massive centralization of Government. I certaintly agree that the New Deal was perhaps the genesis of the current size of government, but I also think that the Cold War and the Great Society had much larger and longer lasting effect and will continue to do so.

It started with FDR, and later POTUSes merely expanded on it. LBJ did greatly with it. Heck, GWB's expansion is outright nightmaric. But FDR was the first to really try to implement the commerce clause to do it, and I find that to be a shame.

The rise of the commerce clause is, to me, one of the worst developments of the law in the US.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,151]

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Nixon would have been a really good president had he not had that dishonest core. .

And if my Aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I did not include Nixon. Despite his numerous and large faults, the guy did an awesome job with foreign policy. He got us out of Vietnam and reached out to China.

More soldiers died during the Vietnamization process than prior. And if you're going to harp on FDR for expanding the presidency, why does Nixon get credit for conduction the war in Cambodia without Congressional involvement?

Kallend had it right. This glorification of Nixon dating back to before his death is bullshit. He was the worst, hands down. Just look at the 74 elections to get a sense.

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and those who would put Clinton first either have to admit they're voting on politics, or need to pull their head out of their ....
He presided over a healthy economy, balanced the budget, blah blah. If you need to pick a Democrat, you have Carter for ineffective leadership, and LBJ for Vietnam and the Good Society.

[racer42 0]

Agreed. Keynesian economics was the answer to everything in the thirties, but to a large degree irresponsible and shortsighted business has always cost us in the long run.

I'm not sure how much I would have trusted "market forces" in the thirties to stabilize. Some of the regulation of the thirties has contributed to stability today. The Federal Reserve, FDIC, etc.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[rhys 0]

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And if my Aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle.
...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[miked10270 0]

OK. I voted "Dubya". Then again, he labours under the handicap that he is the current president! In the 80's I would have voted for Reagan simply because Iat that time I lacked perspective on what he achieved & was focussed on what he was doing at the time.

Similarly, with a historical perspective, Nixon's utter lack of morals was a major flaw, AND a strength. I doubt that a morally upright president would have been able to open a dialogue with Maoist China. Johnston's weakness in allowing himself to become embroiled in Vietnam - to be blackmailed by such a regime into defending it, is balanced by Mao & Stalin's similar weakness toward Ho-Chi-Minh.

ALL the recent presidents have had their strengths & their flaws. All too often, their strengths and skills haven't become apparrent until they've been out of office for about 10 years. Each in his turn has bee "Worst-President-Ever". Irresponsible. Dishonest. Feckless. Incompetent. Senile. Inflexible. Dishonest. Stupid. That neatly summarises the view of successive American Presidents AT THE TIME! The view only changes once they leave office and their achievements & failures are examined in total.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[kallend 2,151]

With 119 votes counted, George W. "Dubya" Bush holds a commanding lead with twice as many votes as all other post Depression presidents combined.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,120]

In a recent poll, more than 50% of americans think Bush should be impeached for violations of the fourth amendment. So the sentiment isn't confined to this board.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

There has bene some great explanations for people's choices. I am still waiting for people to come up with a reasoning for naming Clinton as the worst president. I can see the point of view of the other's....just would like to hear an argument for that choice.

[pirana 0]

I voted W because he is running the country like it is his own personal belonging. He doesn't OWN the country - he is supposed to be administering, not operating for personal gain.

Abortion is a great example. Even though roughly 3 out of 4 citizens think abortion should be legal, he is doing everything he can to enable the anti-abortion foes to make it illegal.

Also, his actions based on religious conviction are only one-step short of the Reagan's consulting an Astrologer.

Reagan comes in a close 2nd also for thinking launched nukes could be recalled. Can you believe we had an Alzheimers patient with his finger on the button, who thought the missles could be recalled?!

Why don't more people see that the conservative accumulation-of-wealth wackos are just as dangerous as the liberal whirled-peas wackos?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Why don't more people see that the conservative accumulation-of-wealth wackos are just as dangerous as the liberal whirled-peas wackos?

If one side is bad, the other automatically has to be good...if not, life gets too complicated.

[rehmwa 2]

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Why don't more people see that the conservative accumulation-of-wealth wackos are just as dangerous as the liberal whirled-peas wackos?

I don't think accumulation of wealth is anything wrong - but there should be a good cliche for the nuts on the right too.

But we all agree that the extreme wackos on both sides keep coming from a "we have to do it MY way for the good of everyone else" perspective. Closet Aristocrats are very dangerous and when the ones on the left are put next to the ones on the right, I can't tell the difference.

As soon as both parties stop letting these types run their shows, ......

wait, nevermind, won't happen.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

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Why don't more people see that the conservative accumulation-of-wealth wackos are just as dangerous as the liberal whirled-peas wackos?

If one side is bad, the other automatically has to be good...if not, life gets too complicated.

Life, and life, is complicated. Pretending it is simple, and that there are simple answers (especially from people who think they have them all) is the root of all evil.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[skydyvr 0]

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In a recent poll, more than 50% of americans think Bush should be impeached for violations of the fourth amendment. So the sentiment isn't confined to this board.

In another recent poll, Dubya was voted the greatest president in US history.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,120]

>In another recent poll, Dubya was voted the greatest president in US history.

Polling the FOX editorial board again? Or did you do a personal poll and discover that there was one vote for "best president ever" and no votes for "worst president ever?"

[crwtom 0]

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Guys I won't include:
I did not include Nixon. Despite his numerous and large faults, the guy did an awesome job with foreign policy. He got us out of Vietnam and reached out to China.

was that Nixon or Kissinger ?

Cheers, T

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