mnealtx 0 #76 March 9, 2006 Illegal combatants are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #77 March 9, 2006 > Illegal combatants are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. Right on cue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #78 March 9, 2006 QuoteIllegal combatants are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. As it should be...don't wear a uniform then you are not a Soldier, who shall receive fair treatment if captured. Being afforded any decent treatment at all after being captured on the field of battle when ununiformed is a nicety a Illegal Combatants should be appreciative of...summary execution used to be the way those individuals were dealt with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #79 March 9, 2006 QuoteRight on cue. Peel back the blinkers, Bill. The initial post in THIS thread stating the info was about 20 posts up. The post of mine that I copied that from was from last year.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #80 March 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteIllegal combatants are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. As it should be...don't wear a uniform then you are not a Soldier, who shall receive fair treatment if captured. Being afforded any decent treatment at all after being captured on the field of battle when ununiformed is a nicety a Illegal Combatants should be appreciative of...summary execution used to be the way those individuals were dealt with. Sort of like what they do with the infidels they capture or kidnap?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #81 March 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteIllegal combatants are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention. As it should be...don't wear a uniform then you are not a Soldier, who shall receive fair treatment if captured. Being afforded any decent treatment at all after being captured on the field of battle when ununiformed is a nicety a Illegal Combatants should be appreciative of...summary execution used to be the way those individuals were dealt with. Sort of like what they do with the infidels they capture or kidnap? You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #82 March 9, 2006 >The initial post in THIS thread stating the info was about 20 posts up. Read the previous 2 posts. About 15 minutes ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #83 March 9, 2006 >Sort of like what they do with the infidels they capture or kidnap? Do you think the US should have better moral standards than terrorists? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #84 March 9, 2006 Obviously, we already do. Not that we couldn't be doing better, mind...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #85 March 9, 2006 >Obviously, we already do. I agree, but the distinction is starting to blur. Every time we torture another prisoner to death (and we do that regularly) that line blurs a little more. And whatever reason we have given people to hate terrorists applies to us just a little more. One of the biggest problems we will have in Iraq is that, despite a lot of glad-handing and euphemisms, a lot of Iraqis are starting to hate our guts. We torture them. We kill them. We say things like "who cares if a bunch of Iraqis kill each other?" We make excuses as to how their dead kids aren't our fault, at all. Unavoidable civilian casualties. Our news shows do stories on "Iraq civil war - a good thing?" We take over their city to "liberate" them, and the people living there see it descend into lawlessness and militia wars. We talk about the US getting money back from Iraq for their 'liberation.' When we leave, we are going to set the stage for an anti-american dictator to take over, using the simple rallying cry of "No more Americans!" And that would be very bad news for us. Because they didn't have WMD's this time - but next time, they will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #86 March 9, 2006 There is no such thing an "illegal combatant." There are 2 categories of detainees: criminal, and prisoner of war. Period. Criminals have to be charged and brought to trial. Prisoners of war must be accorded Geneva Convention protections. Doing neither is a violation of law. If a prisoner who is an "illegal combatant" is not categorized as a POW, then he MUST, by default, be categorized as a criminal. Once so categorized, he has the right to be charged, to consult privately with counsel and to be brought to trial promptly. The Bush administration has invented this "3rd category" as cover to avoid giving the prisoners legal classifications. And while a few may not admit it openly, every goddam lawyer in the world, liberal or conservative, knows it. The US has heralded itself since 1776 as an international champion of the rule of law. With the current administration's abuse of the "illegal combatant" label, it lowers itself into the same category as a two-bit banana republic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #87 March 9, 2006 Quote>Obviously, we already do. I agree, but the distinction is starting to blur. Every time we torture another prisoner to death (and we do that regularly)GOT PROOF BILL? that line blurs a little more. And whatever reason we have given people to hate terrorists applies to us just a little more. One of the biggest problems we will have in Iraq is that, despite a lot of glad-handing and euphemisms, a lot of Iraqis are starting to hate our guts. We torture them. We kill them. We say things like "who cares if a bunch of Iraqis kill each other?" We make excuses as to how their dead kids aren't our fault, at all. Unavoidable civilian casualties. Our news shows do stories on "Iraq civil war - a good thing?" We take over their city to "liberate" them, and the people living there see it descend into lawlessness and militia wars. We talk about the US getting money back from Iraq for their 'liberation.' When we leave, we are going to set the stage for an anti-american dictator to take over, using the simple rallying cry of "No more Americans!" And that would be very bad news for us. Because they didn't have WMD's this time - but next time, they will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #88 March 9, 2006 I can't speak as for "categories" of detainees. Illegal combatants, however, are NOT an invention of the Bush administration - read the Geneva convention.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #89 March 9, 2006 >GOT PROOF BILL? Yep, and I've posted it about a dozen times. Do a search. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #90 March 9, 2006 QuoteEvery time we torture another prisoner to death (and we do that regularly)... Please cite your examples. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #91 March 9, 2006 QuoteThere is no such thing an "illegal combatant." (way back when... they were called SPIES and shot dead on site, and sometimes after a gruesome torture)There are 2 categories of detainees: criminal, and prisoner of war. Period. Criminals have to be charged and brought to trial. Prisoners of war must be accorded Geneva Convention protections. Doing neither is a violation of law. If a prisoner who is an "illegal combatant" is not categorized as a POW, then he MUST, by default, be categorized as a criminal. Once so categorized, he has the right to be charged, to consult privately with counsel and to be brought to trial promptly. The Bush administration has invented this "3rd category" as cover to avoid giving the prisoners legal classifications. And while a few may not admit it openly, every goddam lawyer in the world, liberal or conservative, knows it. The US has heralded itself since 1776 as an international champion of the rule of law. With the current administration's abuse of the "illegal combatant" label, it lowers itself into the same category as a two-bit banana republic. LOOK IT UP! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #92 March 9, 2006 QuoteYep, and I've posted it about a dozen times. Do a search. Ahh. The "I have a strong belief based on something or other I am not at this time willing to make even the slightest effort to substantiate" retort. Brilliant!!! FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #93 March 9, 2006 >Please cite your examples. Here are just a few, if you don't want to be bothered searching: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140012006 http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/taguba_report.htm http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:MaU9b0QnJRgJ:www.baltimoresun.com/news/custom/attack/bal-te.detainees13feb13,0,1578944.story%3Fcoll%3Dbal-attack-headlines+report+on+torture&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #94 March 9, 2006 Excellent attempt at misdirection! While one of your posts does depict a homicide (by U.S. hands...which resulted in a court-martial) which most here would believe to be disgusting, none of your links even hints at anything regarding a regular killing of prisoners by torture. You failed. Try again. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #95 March 9, 2006 QuoteExcellent attempt at misdirection! While one of your posts does depict a homicide (by U.S. hands...which resulted in a court-martial) which most here would believe to be disgusting, none of your links even hints at anything regarding a regular killing of prisoners by torture. You failed. Try again. FallRate How regular do you want it to be before it becomes unacceptable. If you murder someone would you use the defense that you are not a serial killer so you should be released? It is hard for me to believe that you are unaware of all the hard evidence of torture in Iraqi detention centers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #96 March 9, 2006 >none of your links even hints at anything regarding a regular killing of prisoners by torture. Call it whatever you want. We regularly torture prisoners to death. Excuses as to how "oh, that's a homicide; it's not really like torturing someone to death" are really pretty lame. If China shot down a US surveillance plane, took the crew captive in a military prison, then tortured several of them to death after discovering the secrets of the aircraft - would you buy it if a Chinese leader said "Oh, sorry - that wasn't us, it was just an unscrupulous lieutenant, we have since fired him" ? I suspect not. We should hold ourselves to the same standards we expect of others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #97 March 15, 2006 >Despite the media wanting a civil war in Iraq it did not happen. More news from the non-civil-war: ---------- BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi authorities discovered at least 87 corpses — men shot to death execution-style — as Iraq edged closer to open civil warfare. Twenty-nine of the bodies, dressed only in underwear, were dug out of a single grave Tuesday in a Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad. The bloodshed appeared to be retaliation for a bomb and mortar attack in the Sadr City slum that killed at least 58 people and wounded more than 200 two days earlier. ---------- BAGHDAD -- Senior Iraqi officials confirmed Sunday for the first time that death squads composed of government employees had operated illegally from inside two government ministries. "The deaths squads that we have captured are in the defense and interior ministries," Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said during a joint news conference with the minister of defense. "There are people who have infiltrated the army and the interior." --------- Thank goodness there's nothing to worry about! I mean, as long as government death squads are only executing dozens of people at a time, things are peachy. Heck, that stuff happens in New York city all the time. I can't believe unscrupulous media types would call that "nearing a civil war." Next thing you know, they'll be saying that some Iraqis aren't happy with the US! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #98 March 15, 2006 Quote>Despite the media wanting a civil war in Iraq it did not happen. More news from the non-civil-war: ---------- BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi authorities discovered at least 87 corpses — men shot to death execution-style — as Iraq edged closer to open civil warfare. Twenty-nine of the bodies, dressed only in underwear, were dug out of a single grave Tuesday in a Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad. The bloodshed appeared to be retaliation for a bomb and mortar attack in the Sadr City slum that killed at least 58 people and wounded more than 200 two days earlier. ---------- BAGHDAD -- Senior Iraqi officials confirmed Sunday for the first time that death squads composed of government employees had operated illegally from inside two government ministries. "The deaths squads that we have captured are in the defense and interior ministries," Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said during a joint news conference with the minister of defense. "There are people who have infiltrated the army and the interior." --------- Thank goodness there's nothing to worry about! I mean, as long as government death squads are only executing dozens of people at a time, things are peachy. Heck, that stuff happens in New York city all the time. I can't believe unscrupulous media types would call that "nearing a civil war." Next thing you know, they'll be saying that some Iraqis aren't happy with the US! You just proved the point that the media WANTS a civil war. Your point seems to be that people are dying over there so there must be a civil war They were dying long before we got there. The shit going on over there is in a few small areas (realative) and appears to me to be the last chance efforts of a loosing team"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #99 March 15, 2006 > The shit going on over there is in a few small areas (realative) and >appears to me to be the last chance efforts of a loosing team . . . Yep! Mission Accomplished! We're turning the corner. The insurgency is in its last throes. It might last six more days, six weeks - I doubt six months . . . It worked for a long time, but all those lies (sorry, "incorrect statements" in GOP-speak) ain't working no more. The administration can only blow smoke up people's asses for so long before they start to realize that all they care about is the _image_ of what's happening in Iraq. Who cares who kills who, as long as they can pat themselves on the back and say "Yep, in its last throes again! It would all be good news if not for that meddling press!" People no longer buy it. See the latest poll numbers. About the only way they can pull themselves out of this one is to start being honest with the public - and that certainly isn't going to happen. They will keep spinning the situation in Iraq as a great positive thing, hoping somewhere someone believes them. (And if posters here are any indication, some people do indeed buy any story they put out.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #100 March 15, 2006 Quote> The shit going on over there is in a few small areas (realative) and >appears to me to be the last chance efforts of a loosing team . . . Yep! Mission Accomplished! We're turning the corner. The insurgency is in its last throes. It might last six more days, six weeks - I doubt six months . . . It worked for a long time, but all those lies (sorry, "incorrect statements" in GOP-speak) ain't working no more. The administration can only blow smoke up people's asses for so long before they start to realize that all they care about is the _image_ of what's happening in Iraq. Who cares who kills who, as long as they can pat themselves on the back and say "Yep, in its last throes again! It would all be good news if not for that meddling press!" People no longer buy it. See the latest poll numbers. About the only way they can pull themselves out of this one is to start being honest with the public - and that certainly isn't going to happen. They will keep spinning the situation in Iraq as a great positive thing, hoping somewhere someone believes them. (And if posters here are any indication, some people do indeed buy any story they put out.) The truth is not hard to by, but if you are any indication,........it is easy to ignore"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
