illogical nuclear weapon stance?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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We both know that's not analogous.

Religious leaders play a significant role in the Iranian government. They play virtually no role here.

Well other than your president claiming that the voice in his head was God telling him he made the right decisions invading Iraq.

[Andy9o8 2]

OK, how about this logic:
Nuclear weapons are abhorrent. There should be universal nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation, and the U.S. will disarm its nukes in conjunction with, and at the same proportional rate as, the other nuclear nations doing the same. But universal disarmament can only take place if there is universal non-proliferation. Therefore, in the meantime, to maintain an environment in which this can be done, and until such time as universal nuclear disarmament has been achieved, the US and other nuclear (weapons) nations will actively oppose the spread or acquisition of nuclear weapons technology to/by any other nations.

[narcimund 0]

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OK, how about this logic:

The problem with your solution is that some believe a stockpile of bombs is necessary to deter other countries from secretly making and using their own.

The solution is to move all weapons out of the hands of individual countries into a multilateral force. Then require concensus of 5 or more world leaders to use them.

Or maybe 10 would be a better number. Or maybe 50% + 1.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Andy9o8 2]

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The problem with your solution is that some believe a stockpile of bombs is necessary to deter other countries from secretly making and using their own.

They're probably right.

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The solution is to move all weapons out of the hands of individual countries into a multilateral force. Then require concensus of 5 or more world leaders to use them.

Or maybe 10 would be a better number. Or maybe 50% + 1.

Utopian, but not realistic. Virtually no country would agree to let other countries have a veto on its ability to defend itself rapidly if the situation warranted it.

[narcimund 0]

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Utopian, but not realistic.

Of course it is. And so was your plan that I was referring to. We're both smart enough to know THAT!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[ExAFO 0]

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The problem with your solution is that some believe a stockpile of bombs is necessary to deter other countries from secretly making and using their own.

They're probably right.

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The solution is to move all weapons out of the hands of individual countries into a multilateral force. Then require concensus of 5 or more world leaders to use them.

Or maybe 10 would be a better number. Or maybe 50% + 1.

Utopian, but not realistic. Virtually no country would agree to let other countries have a veto on its ability to defend itself rapidly if the situation warranted it.

"Utopian?" What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking, and what color is the sky in your world??

I worked for STRATCOM in my last career. No fucking way should any other country have any voice in how we manage our strategic defense assets.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Utopian, but not realistic. Virtually no country would agree to let other countries have a veto on its ability to defend itself rapidly if the situation warranted it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Utopian?" What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking, and what color is the sky in your world??

I worked for STRATCOM in my last career. No fucking way should any other country have any voice in how we manage our strategic defense assets.

If you take a deep, deep breath and re-read my post, you'll see that that was exactly my point.

Jeez.

May I recommend the decaf?

[narcimund 0]

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What color is the sky in the severely deluded world you live in?

Your personal attacks are so pretty.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[warpedskydiver 0]

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What color is the sky in the severely deluded world you live in?

Your personal attacks are so pretty.

Narci quit misquoting will ya? TYVM!!!!

[narcimund 0]

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Narci quit misquoting will ya? TYVM!!!!

I didn't misquote. The post I replied to was deleted.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Narci quit misquoting will ya? TYVM!!!!

I didn't misquote. The post I replied to was deleted.

Cool NP I retract my statement!!!

Thanks

[ExAFO 0]

Gee, sorry if I redacted my post to avoid the Thought Police, whose definition of "Personal Attack" is based on the sensibilities of the most thin-skinned of us.

Back to the topic, unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[narcimund 0]

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unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

You all heard the man! Unless you've been authorized to think about this topic by ExAFO you are all hereby ordered to return to your homes and sit quietly.

ExAFO will be happy to fill your heads with all the approved ideas you need.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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ExAFO will be happy to fill your heads with all the approved ideas you need.

Isn't this what GWB's been telling people for years?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Andy9o8 2]

Guys? Can I respectfully request that we simply stay on topic? Please?

[ExAFO 0]

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unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

You all heard the man! Unless you've been authorized to think about this topic by ExAFO you are all hereby ordered to return to your homes and sit quietly.

ExAFO will be happy to fill your heads with all the approved ideas you need.

...And unless you subscribe to every whack-job whiny-ass microminority flaming liberal moronic load of shit that Narci spews, you're a terrible homophobe christo-facist monster.

Dude, stop fucking whining so much...It's hard to not get irritated at someone with "Professional Victim" on their resume, as you seem to have...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[narcimund 0]

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...And unless you subscribe to every whack-job whiny-ass microminority flaming liberal moronic load of shit that Narci spews, you're a terrible homophobe christo-facist monster.

Dude, stop fucking whining so much...It's hard to not get irritated at someone with "Professional Victim" on their resume, as you seem to have...

You might want to delete this one too. Quickly -- before the "thought police" see it.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[narcimund 0]

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Guys? Can I respectfully request that we simply stay on topic? Please?

Apparently not, but it was a good try.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

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Back to the topic, unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

Better go inform Kenneth Waltz.

Not sure I trust the jackasses that got our stockpile over 10,000 - explain to us how that ever was necessary or beneficial. Sounds like a bad combination of a god complex and pork barrel spending.

---
universal disarmament isn't in the cards. Best case scenario is to get every power down to a credible counterforce - probably means a minimum of 100 nukes with at least two different delivery methods of the sub, missile, bomber triad. Still a nice place to get to - less $$ spent, less potential MUF, less of them for poorer powers to think about selling or losing.

[lawrocket 3]

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The theory of MAD is that both sides have equal capacity to counter-strike thus preventing (inhibiting) both sides from initiating a first-srike.

From the Soviet point of view, SDI was a first stike weapon because the "enemy" was eliminating the barrier to an initial first strike. In war games circles the best tactical choice for the Soviets was to launch their nukes first if the status quo changed. I.E. USA confirmed a working prototype for a space based ABM system.

This was also part of the reasoning behind the SALT I and SALT II (ABM) treaties.

In a country loaded with people who are all the willing to die as martyrs, MAD has an exception.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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The solution is to move all weapons out of the hands of individual countries into a multilateral force. Then require concensus of 5 or more world leaders to use them.

By looking at the UN voting history, Israel probably would have been destroyed 40 years ago if this was the case.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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In a country loaded with people who are all the willing to die as martyrs, MAD has an exception.

the leaders seem quite less willing to die. They like being in power, so the usual rules still apply.

When someone like bin Laden or Hussein are willing to strap on a suicide vest or a 747, I'll worry more. But so far, it looks like American style greed is just as common in Arabia as it was in Moscow.

[miked10270 0]

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Back to the topic, unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

And for the avoidance of doubt, the populations of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, c.1945, have never been in uniform or worked for The DoE! As such, they patently know NOTHING about Nukes, their implications etc...

Now that we've dealt with that... ANYONE who was awake & not militarily brainwashed during The Cold War became, of necessity, knowledgeable about nukes.

The fundamentally defensive nature of nuclear weapons has already been discussed to death, as has how possession of nuclear weapons has perforce changed the attitudes of every national leader from Truman onwards as they came to possess them.

Interestingly, placing America's Nukes under international control was first proposed by President Truman in 1945! Later thinking, with the emergence of Deterrence by Mutual Assured Destruction discredited the concept of international control in favour of an understanding of Clausewitz's concept of total (& therefore unwinnable) war.

Of course, none of this will change the American & Western attitude that Iran trying to acquire nuclear weapons is a problem... Once they HAVE acquired nuclear weapons, they then become part of the solution! As an example of this, look at The US administration's current policies towards India & Pakistan!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Jasmin 0]

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unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled

HAHAHA!!!
Yeah, one of your best mate!!


Kudos to nuke navy operators and special research, but since when does the average American AJ or AF-jockey have a clue???!!!

I think there's a lot of NA, enrichment and fuel specialists, not to mention Rx operators & engineers, who'll happily inform you that 99% of uniforms know "absolutely fuck-all" about nuclear, its implications, the NPT and how to handle a critical assembly!!??

edited to add:There's more to nuclear than being shown a simulation of how to arm a nuclear trigger.

[kallend 2,148]

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Gee, sorry if I redacted my post to avoid the Thought Police, whose definition of "Personal Attack" is based on the sensibilities of the most thin-skinned of us.

Back to the topic, unless you've been in uniform or worked for the DoE, you know absolutely fuck-all about Nukes, their implications, and how they should be handled.

I've worked for DoE (Los Alamos and Argonne) and I disagree with you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.