Police Chiefs, on the Right to Own Guns

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hey Andy I will say this to you with no malice whatsoever..

If you do not like the Second Ammendment why is it the one after the Right to Free Speach and the The
Right of Assembly?

TO ENFORCE THE RIGHT OF THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

and always remember if you don't like the rights provided by our constitution, you can always leave, you have that right too

[AggieDave 6]

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No, but in all fairness, cars and other potentially dangerous things (like steak knives, baseball bats, nail guns, etc.) can be used to harm people

I've see items such as those hurting more people then I've seen guns. I've also seen those sorts of items carried MUCH more often then guns.

"Hey, whats with the bat?"
"I was playing baseball..."
"at 3am?"

Of course, a samuri-sword can be added to that list as well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

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T What % of gun related crimes occur w/ a weapon legally purchased by the criminal using that weapon in a crime?

what % of guns (legal or illegal) were at some point in their
existence legally manufactured and sold - about 99%?

since there are at least as many guns as people, we're already at the 99.9% level for guns not being involved in crime.

But I've no doubt that if you measure the number of guns used in crime that are legally obtainable, the number is far less than 999 in 1000.

Two years ago a San Francisco cop was shot by a gun with an AK-47. Can't recall if it's semiautomatic or auto, but those haven't been legally obtainable in a long while. But any fashionable weapon will show up in the criminal element. It's hardly surprising that the sort of people that will smuggle in hundreds of kilos of narcotics can also smuggle in weapons.

[kallend 2,175]

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No, but in all fairness, cars and other potentially dangerous things (like steak knives, baseball bats, nail guns, etc.) can be used to harm people

I've see items such as those hurting more people then I've seen guns. I've also seen those sorts of items carried MUCH more often then guns.

"Hey, whats with the bat?"
"I was playing baseball..."
"at 3am?"

Of course, a samuri-sword can be added to that list as well.

How about homicides? What implement is used more than guns in US homicides? How many homicides were committed with Samurai Swords or steak knives last year?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

Tell you what John. Believe what ever you wish to believe sitting in your office and lecturing your students.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 2,175]

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Tell you what John. Believe what ever you wish to believe sitting in your office and lecturing your students.

Don't want to answer the question, do you? I know you know the answer, just like I do.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

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Don't want to answer the question, do you? I know you know the answer, just like I do.

Not quite. Its that you're trying to use statistics and I'm trying to use the real world. Seeing how your career and life choice keeps you sheltered from the reality of the situation, I choose not to continue the arguement. It would be a waste of my time, since you will simply refuse that what is presented is truthful without any consideration to the contrary.

Besides, its time to go to the gym if I'm going to be able to do so prior to going to work.


Sheep, sheepdogs and wolves.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 2,175]

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Don't want to answer the question, do you? I know you know the answer, just like I do.

Not quite. Its that you're trying to use statistics and I'm trying to use the real world. Seeing how your career and life choice keeps you sheltered from the reality of the situation, I choose not to continue the arguement. It would be a waste of my time, since you will simply refuse that what is presented is truthful without any consideration to the contrary.

Besides, its time to go to the gym if I'm going to be able to do so prior to going to work.


Sheep, sheepdogs and wolves.

irony score 9.8

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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I just like to point that position of his out, because on the one hand he says he supports gun ownership, but then virtually every single post he ever makes in any gun discussion is to argue against it. He never criticizes any of the anti-gun arguments, only the pro-gun arguments.

I just find that odd for someone who professes to care so much about the truth.

Apparently lockstep is required, independent thought is strongly discouraged.

Your conclusion does not follow from what I said. I'm not suggesting that you should march in lock step.

However, there is a hypocritical inconsistency in the way you claim to be concerned about the truth, yet spend all your time criticizing only one side of the issue - the pro-gun side. If your concern for the truth was genuine, you would spend just as much time criticizing the many bogus arguments put forth by the anti-gun folks. Yet we never see you do that. One has only to read your posts in this thread to see the truth in that.

[rehmwa 2]

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Seeing how your career and life choice keeps you sheltered from the reality of the situation,

oooohhh, the academia are not in the "real world" tactic

These are the BEST threads

(damn, I'm out of popcorn)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

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How about homicides? What implement is used more than guns in US homicides?

um, automobiles?

Speed Racer
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[JohnRich 4]

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Most (even if not all) handguns and military-style assault weapons were invented to shoot people with, and not targets or game.

First of all, that isn't necessarily true. The most common rifle in High-Power shooting competition in which I compete, is the AR-15 - which the anti-gun folks call an "assault weapon", while it's main purpose is only to punch tiny holes in pieces of paper.

Second, even if what you say were true, the guns would be intended to shoot people only when legally permissable in self-defense. They are not manufactured for the sole use of criminals in violent crimes.

So your argument fails on both points.

[kallend 2,175]

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Seeing how your career and life choice keeps you sheltered from the reality of the situation,

oooohhh, the academia are not in the "real world" tactic

These are the BEST threads

(damn, I'm out of popcorn)

Too silly.

When I jumped out of the plane on Sunday, the World coming at me sure looked real.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 3]

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your argument fails on both points.

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Aha! You must be against the 2nd Amendment, you pinko

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Love it or leave it (and so's yo momma)!

It wan't an argument at all. It was a suggestion of debatable fact, to demonstrate that the facts themselves are not black or white. But in SC, it's generally presumed that if a poster isn't squarely with you, he must be squarely against you. No middle ground, right? (Uh, wrong.)
And so it goes.
Really, guys (especially warpedguy), I didn't insult your ancestry or anything.

[JohnRich 4]

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Most (even if not all) handguns and military-style assault weapons were invented to shoot people with, and not targets or game.

your argument fails on both points.

It wan't an argument at all. It was a suggestion of debatable fact, to demonstrate that the facts themselves are not black or white.

Regardless of the original reason for which they were invented, the variety of uses for guns since then has blossomed into many non-warfare, recreational pursuits.

Computers were originally designed to do complex math calculations for governments with millions of dollars to spend on them, but now we can sit here thousands of miles apart and use them to talk to each other for an investment of just a few thousand dollars. That doesn't mean that we are mis-using our computers. They've evolved.

Bows and arrows were invented as an instrument of warfare and for
hunting, but no-one uses them in modern war anymore. Would you say that Olympic archery competitors are "training to kill"? Or would you recognize that archery is a sport unto itself nowadays, just for the skill of hitting a target, or a deer?

And gunpowder, which comprises the "fire" in "firearms" and makes them what they are, was invented by the Chinese to make pretty fireworks displays in the night sky. It wasn't until the 1400's in Europe that some began to use gunpowder for weaponry. Hand held gunpowder weapons didn't come to be until the 16th century.

So if I was to use your strict definition of claiming the purpose of
a modern object is always that for which the original object was
invented, then modern firearms must be "designed to make pretty
fireworks".

Let's recognize that things evolve in many directions, and that not all of the derivatives serve the same purpose as the original invention.

[ViperPilot 0]

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what % of guns (legal or illegal) were at some point in their
existence legally manufactured and sold - about 99%?

Ah, the age old "argument" that if we get rid of all guns, the criminals won't have any to steal so there won't be any to commit crimes with...oh wait a minute, what about the thousands of weapons illegaly imported each year? Not to mention that number will go up 10 fold if guns become illegal. Good thinking, you just squashed the pro-gunners! Oh wait...