sundevil777 102 #51 March 3, 2006 QuoteBIG HUGE difference...... and you should KNOW better Darius Hamas and Islamic Jihad and all the other terrorist groups do not target the Israili leadership OR the Military, the SPECIFICALLY target CIVILIANS..... buses... cafes... etc.... The innocent children killed by the Israelis are ALMOST ALWAYS accidental while trying to get the LEADERSHIP of those groups.. or the asshats who are making and sending the bombers....to SPECIFICALLY target children and civilians.. I would say that makes the difference. A HUYGE DIFFERENCE. Quite right. I would say that the attack on the Pentagon is in a different class than the attack on the Trade Center precisely because it was an attack on a military target. It is still an act of war worthy of a violent response, but not at all so easily defined as terrorism. Of course the attack on the Pentagon also had to involve the death of lots of non-military civilians, but it was not really different than a traditional military surprise attack that might start a war. I don't find the term terrorism very useful anymore, it is just a different style of warfare, and must be fought against like it is a war.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #52 March 3, 2006 QuoteI would say that the attack on the Pentagon is in a different class than the attack on the Trade Center precisely because it was an attack on a military target. beside the fact that it was a civilian aircraft... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #53 March 3, 2006 QuoteBIG HUGE difference...... and you should KNOW better Darius Hamas and Islamic Jihad and all the other terrorist groups do not target the Israili leadership OR the Military, the SPECIFICALLY target CIVILIANS..... buses... cafes... etc.... The innocent children killed by the Israelis are ALMOST ALWAYS accidental while trying to get the LEADERSHIP of those groups.. or the asshats who are making and sending the bombers....to SPECIFICALLY target children and civilians.. I would say that makes the difference. A HUYGE DIFFERENCE. you are right at least the Israeli Army claims that it wasn't a civilian target.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #54 March 3, 2006 QuoteWhen was the last time a Jewish teenager strapped on a suicide vest*** I couldn’t let this one pass. They don’t need to there army is very capable of murder. As mentioned a 100 times before. In my book if you kill inocent children you are guilty no matter if your method was a bomb from an F15 or a suicide bomber. Explain to me how the process of brainwashing works to tell someone that if they blow themselves up they will bring good to the world. How do you rationalize that? What kind of a normal society would teach that? (I'm not talking about muslims...I m talking extremest.) Would you let your kids blow themselves up? How much money is paid to the families to make it okay for a mothe to tell her kid to go ahead and go through with it. I dont understand that.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #55 March 3, 2006 QuoteIn my book if you kill inocent children you are guilty no matter if your method was a bomb from an F15 or a suicide bomber. In Palestine isnt it the kids who are straping bombs on themselves. Arent they being told by their own people to do that. Arent Palestinians killing their own children?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #56 March 3, 2006 QuoteIn Palestine isnt it the kids who are straping bombs on themselves. Arent they being told by their own people to do that. Arent Palestinians killing their own children? Further, aren't the Palestinians killing Israeli children? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 March 3, 2006 Quote Do you think all land should be given to the people who were there first? If your answer is yes then a lot of countries need to start moving. If you think the spoils of war should be kept to the winners then we will have war forever. At this point is seems pointless to debate what was done in 1948. It's a done deal. So a stance that all Israelis should be killed or expelled is not really a defendable position for another nation to take. Israel exists, and it has the bomb. A successful attempt to take the country will result in a very large atomic blast in that part of the world. So it's time to move forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #58 March 3, 2006 QuoteFair enough, but then why the Jews? America certainly doesn't stand up for all the underdogs in the world. So why will they stand up for the jews? John, your statement doesn't say anything. We know the US is protecting the Jews...that wasn't the question. The question would be...why protect the jews? Why? Because they are a people that a lot of others want to exterminate, and no race, creed or religion of people deserves to be exterminated, as long as they are peaceful and minding their own business, as Israel is trying to do. America has stood up for a lot of underdogs, but we aren't all-powerful and capable of doing it all. We do what we can. And Israel happens to be one of the most severely threatened. Do you think that America should abandon all support for Israel? What effect do you think that would have on the region? If your family home was under attack on all sides by vicious enemies, wouldn't you want the toughest guy in the neighborhood to step forward and help you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sitflybaseboy 0 #59 March 4, 2006 Magellan, Do you actually go to school? Or do you just post on here 24/7? You really like these guys alot better than your home DZ people. Too bad you chose to leave IH.....your loss! I heard you are not going to jump anymore. True or false? 321CYA SitflybaseboyBASE 1043 Night BASE 160 BASE is to skydivers as skydiving is to whuffos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #60 March 4, 2006 QuoteToo bad you chose to leave IH.....your loss! I heard you are not going to jump anymore. True or false? What does that have to do with supporting Israel or not? The villiage is looking for you .... Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #61 March 4, 2006 The reasons for the support of Israel is well documented in the King James Bible, Book of Revelation Chapter 12. The woman descibed, is Israel, and the 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel. The being pained to be delivered of a child, is the birth of Jesus Christ. The depiction of Satan, the Devel, is that GREAT RED DRAGON. This "great RED Dragon, is a metaphor for China in the last days of this world. And Israel brought forth a manchild ( Jesus) who was to rule all nations., and he was caught up unto God and to His throne, when Jesus was crucified, and ascended unto the Father God. And the woman ( Israel) fled into the wilderness where God provided a place of security to her. Woe unto the inhabitants of the earth, for the Devil is come down among you, having great wrath, because he knows he has only a short time to deceive you , (until the end of this world ). That short time is soon to be concluded, and Jesus will be the judge of all nations. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle ( The United States of America) for protection, that she might fly into her place....the nation of Israel, where she will be nourished for a time from Satan, the Serpent, who cast out of his mouth a greatflood ( of anti-semitism) after the woman ,that he might cause Israel to be carried away with the flood. UNQUALIFIED SUPPORT AUTHORIZED FROM THE USA TOWARD ISRAEL, BY GOD . And ther dragon was angry with Israel, and went to make war against the remnant of her seed, ( The Jewish People), and those Christians who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The United States will soon fall, and will no longer be there to help Israel, and she will be at the mercy of millions of Arabs that reside all around her. However, Satan and his followers, which include almost every nation on earth today, will soon attack Israel, in the Battle of Armageddon. And it shall come to pass that in all the land, saith the Lord, TWO parts therein ( of Israel's people) shall be cut off and die, but the third part hall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried, and they shall ( finally) call upon my name, and I will hear them: I will say It is MY people, and they shall say, THE LORD IS MY GOD. Notice too, how the USA is found unto this day, in its relationship with the Capital of Israel, in the very center of the Capital Jer USA lem And much to the chagrin of many on this website, The Lord God does NOT work in coincidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #62 March 4, 2006 QuoteDo you think all land should be given to the people who were there first? If your answer is yes then a lot of countries need to start moving. If you think the spoils of war should be kept to the winners then we will have war forever. Ok, that makes sense. Common ground has to be reached via compromise. QuoteIf you are lacking in common since and can not see the difference between an on going war and what happened 3000 years ago then your on your own. I always bring up Cyrus or Korosh as it is properly pronounced to show how stupid it is to say oh the Jews were there 3000 years ago so the people who did live there 50 years ago have no rights. I really don’t need a lesson in history specially when it comes to my own country. I am sick of people who always see the pain of one side. Again that makes sense. Too many people justify their hatreds on events that are long past. QuoteThe Jews yes they have goon threw a lot, but that does not excuse them from tutoring Palestinian youth? No-one ever said that it did (including the Isrealis). They are not however randomly torturing palestinian youth. QuoteThe sympathy most of the world feels for what the Jews have been threw does not give them a license to attack who ever they want when they want. It does not mean they are allowed to brak and nor respect basic human rights. They are not attacking randomly. They do have the right of self defence (as did Britain during the blitz), and unfortunately the cowards who terrorize innocent Isreali citizens hide amongst civilians intentionally. Every time Isreal hits a schoolyard or hospital while aiming bombs at a legitimate military target the world go's nuts but fails to ask the following question..."why does the hamas leadership always "coincidentally" place their high value targets right beside a scholyard or hospital, when they know that Isreali counterstrikes will likely cause harm to the abovementioned non-military targets?" In the middle east our troops don't place their high value targets right beside hospitals. Isreali's do not put their command centres right beside daycare centres. Why? because they know that that places civilians at risk yet Hamas always places their high value military targets right beside civilians so that when they hit Isreal, Isreal cannot possibly respond without creating collateral damage and thus upsetting the world. Should Israel not respond? They have no choice if they wish to survive as a nation. They are being placed in a lose-lose situation. Furthermore our western media has an anti-Isreali mentality to it and while they are more than willing to condemn isreal's actions they overlook the following facts. The Isreali goivernment does place high emphasis on avoiding civilian casualties (contrary to popular misconception), and have on numerous occasions court-martialed their own officers when they have broken the law in that respect (how many Hamas members have been tried by Palestinian courts for attacking Isreali citizens). Furthermore, several Isrealis have opposed certain military interventions and refused to follow orders when they felt those orders were unethical und unneccessarily harmfull to the palestinians (how many Hamas members have done the same). Whenever the Isreali military has gone too far Isreali citizens have actually protested on the streets on behalf of the palestinians (do palestinians hit the street and protest when Isreali kids are killed). Many of the Jewish people I know have been very objective on the issue, and while they obviously have thier own viewpoint on the issue they are empathetic to the palestinian perspective and are willing to acknowledge fault in the Isreali government when the situation merits it. To a man (or woman) every arabic/muslim person I have talked to has vehemently insisted that it is all Isreals fault and only seen the pain from their side, and do not concede either fault on the palestinian side nor empathy for the isreali perspective. Furthermore as I have stated before, the UN seems to have that same anti-Isreali bias. QuoteIf you were in a concentration camp you have my sympathy but that does not mean you are allowed to bring pain to others. It is that simple. Isreal has never claimed that it does. QuoteIt is to see the other side. Loyalty is a great thing but as long as it does not blind you. Very true. Many people pledge alleigiance to their own perspective and willingly blind themselves to other viewpoints. QuoteLooking at others and seeing them as your self not lower because of there religion or the color of there skin. I am sure no on sees them selves as a racists but if you can easily say oh 9 Palestinians kids have been killed oh well, but then have a strong reaction to one Israeli child getting killed then wake up you are a racist. It is not that simple. In the west we do see that Isreal has gone to great lengths to address past wrongs and acheive a lasting peace. As a result when an Isreali kid gets killed we in the west are irate for two reasons a) Isreal does not want this war, b) The kid was probably not collateral damage, but the actual target. When Palestinian kids are killed it is unintentional (the idea of deliberately targetting children is more reprehensible than kids dying unintentionally during a legitimate strike), so people realize that it was a tragic consequence rather than a deliberate atrocity. Furthermore they realize that Isreal had no choice but to respond. They are also more disgusted because they realize that the palestinian leadership deliberately placed the kids in the line of fire (it's like me shooting a gun at you and barricading myself deliberately behind my own children and screaming about what a monster you are when they get hit as you fire in self defence), so they realize that Isreal cannot be condemned for this. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #63 March 5, 2006 QuoteIf any other country in the world treated its neighbors the way Israel has there would be an outcry from the whole world. There is a constant outcry of Israels treatment of the palestinians, it usually takes place at the U.N where it is quickly vetoed by the U.S.A and never reported by mainstream media. I think the resolutions against Israel have numbered somerwhere in the hundreds in the last forty years of occupation of arab lands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #64 March 5, 2006 QuoteThere is a constant outcry of Israels treatment of the palestinians, it usually takes place at the U.N where it is quickly vetoed by the U.S.A and never reported by mainstream media. Of the 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel. 21 members of the UN are Arab countries, and 52 members represent Islamic countries. this makes the UN far from an unbiased body. the US veto is keeping it relevant at least to a certain degree. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #65 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf any other country in the world treated its neighbors the way Israel has there would be an outcry from the whole world. There is a constant outcry of Israels treatment of the palestinians, it usually takes place at the U.N where it is quickly vetoed by the U.S.A and never reported by mainstream media. I think the resolutions against Israel have numbered somerwhere in the hundreds in the last forty years of occupation of arab lands. People seem to think that this issue has only existed since the end of the Six Day War in June 1967, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. Yet there were few, if any, pre-June 1967 UN resolutions which condemned the facts that: 1. Between 1948 & 1967 (i.e., before the Israeli occupation), cross-border terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians, mostly from Jordan and Egypt, were at least a weekly occurrence; 2. Between 1948 & 1967 (i.e., before the Israeli occupation), the West Bank was part of Jordan, Gaza was part of Egypt, and the ethnic Palestinians were forced (by Jordan and Egypt) to live in abject squalor in "refugee camps" and deprived of civil rights rather than being integrated into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Also, between 1948 & 1967, Palestinian aspirations for statehood were harshly suppressed by police state tactics in Jordan and Egypt. The floodgates of UN resolutions only opened after the June 1967 war. There was no international outcry against Egypt and Jordan to let the Palestinians have their own state prior to June 1967. Maybe there should have been. In any event, the double-standard is obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
