namgrunt 0 #1 March 2, 2006 this is not a smart ass question ..but rather wanting a good answer why is the US such a strong supporter of Isrial we give millions in military equipment and billions in cash aid. but why. it seams to really piss off the arabs and they got ALL the oil where does Isrial get its oil? ..59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #3 March 2, 2006 nearly illiterate? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hambone 0 #4 March 2, 2006 Quotethis is not a smart ass question ..but rather wanting a good answer why is the US such a strong supporter of Israel we give millions in military equipment and billions in cash aid. but why. it seams to really piss off the arabs and they got ALL the oil where does Israel get its oil? .. There it is all better, now back to the topic, IMHO, Its because it is the birthplace of christ and as much as we hate to admit it, we have to protect that, also they have the best intellegence unit in the world hands down, that is also nice to be able to use from time to time. We get stuff back but just not the stuff you are talking about.Yeah...You need to grow up. -Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 March 2, 2006 The only reason we support Israel is because of the huge Jewish influence that’s exists in the US. If you look at it from the perspective of a political move it is a bad one. You piss off every one to support a country that was built 1. On other peoples land 2. Have broken human rights laws by torturing prisoners and use of assassination tactics. 3. Israel is the inventor of preemptive attacks and on and on and on If any other country in the world treated its neighbors the way Israel has there would be an outcry from the whole world. I think because the Jewish people have been threw so many horrors them selves they have been able to get away with it for as long as they have. Sad really you would think they would be more sympathetic.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 March 2, 2006 Quote If you look at it from the perspective of a political move it is a bad one. You piss off every one to support a country that was built 1. On other peoples land 2. Have broken human rights laws by torturing prisoners and use of assassination tactics. 3. Israel is the inventor of preemptive attacks and on and on and on geez, the bullshit meter hit a new high with your #3, Darius. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #7 March 2, 2006 "where does Isrial get its oil? " From a pipeline that runs through Egypt. Oh yeah, I forgot. If things get ugly enough they have about 100 smallish nukes and the means to deliver them. So let's try and keep it conventional.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #8 March 2, 2006 QuoteQuote If you look at it from the perspective of a political move it is a bad one. You piss off every one to support a country that was built 1. On other peoples land 2. Have broken human rights laws by torturing prisoners and use of assassination tactics. 3. Israel is the inventor of preemptive attacks and on and on and on geez, the bullshit meter hit a new high with your #3, Darius. Really and why is that? Are you saying the Israelis don't use preemptive attacks? In the modern world I don’t think a single country has been responsible for more preemptive attacks then them. I am glad at least you’re not arguing their torture tactics and planned assassinations.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 March 2, 2006 QuoteIf you look at it from the perspective of a political move it is a bad one. You piss off every one to support a country... Yeah, we really ought to just sit back and do nothing, and let all of Israel's surrounding enemies wipe all those darn Jews off the face of the earth. Dang that America for standing up for beleaguered and outnumbered underdogs! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 March 2, 2006 Darius Darius Darius.... Both sides believe in that whole EYE for and EYE thing.....so what you are calling preemptive works out to actually going after the leaders who make the bombs and order the suicide attacks against CIVILIAN innocents( unless you believe any JEW is a legitimate target) The Hebrews/Jews have been there JUST as long as the "Palestinians.... you need some time reading the history of the Holy Land.( Holy to the Jews, Islam and Christianity) Even those who were escaping from Egypt under Rameses were going BACK to the land they had left.... where there were already others who had not been in slavery in Egypt. There were Jews there THRUOUT the last 5 millenia. When they tried to form a state AFTER WW II they were attacked over and over by the Arab League( Pretty stupid.. they got thier asses kicked each time they tried that and lost more land each time) Many of the European Jews.. that remained after the Holocaust wanted to get to that region after WW II and were hunted and put back into concentration camps when ever they were caught. Face it... ISLAM is just a new commer to the whole conflict that has been going on for 5 thousand years.. and until ALL of the SEMITES learn to get over who is the LEGITIMATE children of Abraham ( this stems from the whole pesky Ishmael- Israel thing) and who is not.. they will just keep on with the Eye for an EYE untill everyone there is blind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #11 March 2, 2006 Name one country that has not used torture or assassination. Israel has all the right to use those tactics. I'm sure you've heard of the Engineer. The man who invented the suicide vest. Israel assassinated him and they had all the right to do so. What were they supposed to do. Sit on their asses and wait for the guy to turn himself in or ask for forgiveness. Look at the Olympic games in Munich. What was Israel supposed to do. Sit down and wait for the World to catch the terrorists. Saddam was building a nuclear power plant back in the late 70s or early 80s. Who was the only country with the balls to stop him. It wasn't the USA or UK. Israel blew the crap out of that facility and thank God. They even planned to kill Saddam, but decided not to since the operation was too risky. What's your take on the six day war? Was Israel supposed to sit down, have a tea and wait for Syria, Jordan, and Egypt to declare war. First they prepare for an attack on Israel, then Israel kicks the crap out of them gaining the Occupied Territories. Now the Arabs are really pissed because not only did they lose but lost a lot of land. Come on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #12 March 2, 2006 I am familiar with the history of Israel. I have said this before if you want to go back in time go back 2500 years and just hand over the middle east to the Iranians after all it was mostly Persia any way. So that’s answer for your argument. I have also heard people say that they lost the war so to the winner gose the spoils. To them I ask are you in favor or against Jews who are trying and getting there homes and land back from German and other Europeans who took over there property or stole it once they fled? I think they have every right to get their property back, however I think that should be the case for every one who has wrongfully lost what was theirs. You can’t make a rule or have a belief and then only apply it biased on religion. To John. No John I don’t think every Jew is a target. If the Israelis were not Jewish and worshiped Ship and started a new religion I would still see them as the murders they are. I all so don’t see the difference in killing innocent people with an F15 or a suicide bomber. The result is the same.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #13 March 2, 2006 QuoteYeah, we really ought to just sit back and do nothing, and let all of Israel's surrounding enemies wipe all those darn Jews off the face of the earth. Dang that America for standing up for beleaguered and outnumbered underdogs! Fair enough, but then why the Jews? America certainly doesn't stand up for all the underdogs in the world. So why will they stand up for the jews? John, your statement doesn't say anything. We know the US is protecting the Jews...that wasn't the question. The question would be...why protect the jews? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #14 March 2, 2006 That’s what I don’t get. Why is there always sympathy for the Israelis even when they kill children "oh it was a mistake". When they arrest and torture teenagers who were throwing rocks at them "oh it’s ok". If the Palestinians or any other nation treated people the way they have done and still do there would be an outcry. The Palestinians are treated like dogs. I am a Muslim you don’t want to take my word for it fine. Search the diaries that Christians have written who have visited there just do a search and you will find many. Hate is not born. You see your friends get killed, you see children die, you see home get bulldozed, you see you are treated less then human then you have hate. For some reason you think Israeli should be allowed to do what they wish, even when other countries follow international law the Israel in your eyes are above the law. Sorry not in my book. I view all people the same until they give me a reason not to. I don’t think because I am Muslim I should get special treatment I don’t think any one should.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #15 March 2, 2006 QuoteI think they have every right to get their property back, however I think that should be the case for every one who has wrongfully lost what was theirs. You can’t make a rule or have a belief and then only apply it biased on religion. Ok Since I am a Seminole... I want all of FLORIDA BACK.... all you fucking immigrants get the fuck out... OK Since I am also Irish ( Northern Ireland) all you fucking English BASTAGES.. get the fuck out and go home to your OWN Island. Ok since I am Scottish( 300 years removed).... ok we kinda have our own country back Uh WRONG on the Persian bullshit.. the Hebrews had a viable country BEFORE the Persians.. the Assyrians etc... came and conquered it and put the people into slavery... PERSIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire The term Persian Empire refers to a series of historical empires that ruled over the Iranian plateau. The political entity which was ruled by these kingdoms has been known as Persia throughout history. Generally, the earliest entity considered the Persian Empire is Persia's Achaemenid Empire (648-330 BC) a united Aryan-indigenous Kingdom that originated in the region known as Pars (Persis) and was formed under Cyrus the Great. Successive states in Iran before 1935 are collectively called the Persian Empire by Western historians.[citation needed] Prior to this, Persia's earliest known kingdom was the indigenous proto-Elamite Empire whose rule was limited to western provinces of what is modern-day Iran, while the indigenous Jiroft Kingdom ruled the eastern provinces. In the 1st millenium BC, with the arrival of Indo-European Aryans on the Iranian plateau, indigenous kingdoms in Iran successively fell to the outnumbering Aryans in wars of settlement. The first kingdom founded by Aryans in Iran was the Median empire, which completely ruled the Iranian plateau. ISRAEL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel The earliest known mention of the name 'Israel', probably refering to a group of people rather than to a place, is the Egyptian Merneptah Stele dated to about 1210 BCE.[1] For over 3,000 years, Jews have held the Land of Israel to be their homeland, both as a Holy Land and as a Promised Land. The Land of Israel holds a special place in Jewish religious obligations, encompassing Judaism's most important sites — including the remains of the First and Second Temple, as well as the rites concerning those temples. [2] Starting around 1200 BCE, a series of Jewish kingdoms and states existed intermittently in the region for over a millennium. Recent archeological evidence suggests that the kingdoms of King David and King Solomon may have existed. [3] Under Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and (briefly) Sassanian rule, Jewish presence in the province dwindled due to mass expulsions. In particular, the failure of the Bar Kochba Revolt against the Roman Empire resulted in widescale expulsion of Jews. It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The Arabs conquered the land from the Eastern Roman Empire in 638 CE. The area was ruled by various Arab states (interrupted by the rule of the Crusaders) before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517. The first wave of Jewish immigration to Israel, or Aliyah (עלייה) started in 1881 as Jews fled persecution, or followed Socialist Zionist ideas of Moses Hess and others of "redemption of the soil". Jews bought land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders. After Jews established agricultural settlements, tensions erupted between the Jews and Arabs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #16 March 2, 2006 I don't think Israel should have a carte blanche to do what they please. But when a few countries vow to wipe your race and country off the face of the Earth what are you going to do. That region has a long and bloody history. I can see both sides of the issue and I do tend do support Israel most of the time. I don't agree with their tactics 100% of the time though. Again I got back to the six day war. Egypt had moved 100,000 troop and over 1000 tanks to the Sinai. Israel was well within its rights to launch a preemptive attack. Bottom line is the Egypt, Jordan and Syria got a royal ass kicking and lost a lot of land. Rather than accept that fact they whine about it and fail to recognize Israel's legitimacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #17 March 3, 2006 QuoteNo John I don’t think every Jew is a target. Darius, a sincere question. Do you see any jews as innocent of the atrocities you believe have occurred? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 March 3, 2006 Quote Oh yeah, I forgot. If things get ugly enough they have about 100 smallish nukes and the means to deliver them. So let's try and keep it conventional. Nothing small about them, and a lot more than 100. It's no coincidence that the neighbors stopped trying to invade since the Yom Kippur war of 1973 when Israelis came close to using those nukes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #19 March 3, 2006 QuoteThat’s what I don’t get. Why is there always sympathy for the Israelis even when they kill children "oh it was a mistake". When they arrest and torture teenagers who were throwing rocks at them "oh it’s ok". If the Palestinians or any other nation treated people the way they have done and still do there would be an outcry. The Palestinians are treated like dogs. I am a Muslim you don’t want to take my word for it fine. Search the diaries that Christians have written who have visited there just do a search and you will find many. Hate is not born. You see your friends get killed, you see children die, you see home get bulldozed, you see you are treated less then human then you have hate. For some reason you think Israeli should be allowed to do what they wish, even when other countries follow international law the Israel in your eyes are above the law. Sorry not in my book. I view all people the same until they give me a reason not to. I don’t think because I am Muslim I should get special treatment I don’t think any one should. Jews dont teach their children hate. Here is proof that Muslims do: http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Offensive_Cartoons.asp http://www.memri.org/video/ Check out the video of a 2 year old girl talking about how much she hates the Jews. What the hell does a 2 year old know about hating anything?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuote geez, the bullshit meter hit a new high with your #3, Darius. Really and why is that? Are you saying the Israelis don't use preemptive attacks? In the modern world I don’t think a single country has been responsible for more preemptive attacks then them. I am glad at least you’re not arguing their torture tactics and planned assassinations. Your story would fly a bit better if we could wipe out the history of 1948-1973. Lots of attacks by nations, some of which still do not recognize Israel's right to exist. Not aware that Israel has a similar stance on any of them. As for their tactics these days, it's a mixed bag. There's no question that they play hardball at a level that we at least pretend in the US isn't the norm. And it's also true that their opposition is hardly a church choir. The sort of folks that assassinated their own (Saddat) for aiming for peace, and quite content to attack the most defenseless in Israel. I think the moral plane is pretty level over there. Very low, but level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
debonair 0 #21 March 3, 2006 It's also worthwhile to remember that in the late 30s and during WWII very few countries relaxed their rules to allow more Jews to escape from the Nazis. Some even reduced or eliminated their immigration quotas. Part of remembering the Holocaust is NOT FORGETTING all that happened, while Israel exists Jews know there is a place they can escape to, a place where the doors will remain open. Unfortunately, history does have a way of repeating itself. Who is to say what the future holds. I'm not a strong believer in fighting fire with fire. But then, I also believe in man's greater good. I'd be one of those disbelievers, thinking my government would place more value in my legal citizenship, years of service and national loyalty than my religion. That as a citizen, my rights would protect me. But... in Europe, during WWII I would have been herded on a train and most likely eliminated. Also don't forget Israel is the only real democracy in that entire region. If the United States were surrounded by unfriendly nations the way Israel is, I doubt we'd bow and say come on in. We'd be saying no, way! We'll do what it takes to protect our borders and the American people. Don't Tread on Me! I think it's the same thing - they feel a great peril and are fighting to protect themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #22 March 3, 2006 QuoteThe only reason we support Israel is because of the huge Jewish influence that’s exists in the US. If you look at it from the perspective of a political move it is a bad one. You piss off every one to support a country that was built 1. On other peoples land 2. Have broken human rights laws by torturing prisoners and use of assassination tactics. 3. Israel is the inventor of preemptive attacks and on and on and on If any other country in the world treated its neighbors the way Israel has there would be an outcry from the whole world. I think because the Jewish people have been threw so many horrors them selves they have been able to get away with it for as long as they have. Sad really you would think they would be more sympathetic. In the west we did far worse things in our past to our native populations than Isreal has done to the Palestinians, yet I can walk down a street without fear of suicide bombings. Nobody denies that ther were human rights violations in the displacement of arabs during the creation of Isreal. The concern is that in the UN everything that is done to Isreal by terrorists is justified by excuses based on other wrongdoings yet every single act on the part of Isrealis who are trying to defend themselves is condemed. I am not trying to whine for them but try to see their perspective. They have been persecuted since the rise of christianity. When us christians got bored of trying to destroy them the uprising of muslims took our place. As nomadic people who had no homeland they had to settle in various countries to try to set up new lives. Whenever the governments in those host countries needed a scapegoat for internal problems they had to pack up and move. During Hitlers rise, extreme anti-semetism was prevalent in the west which is why most of the concerns of Jews were ignored by the west. When Jews were trying to escape persecution many western countries refused them based on anti-sematic beleifs including Canada (so much for our nice guy image). After 6 million were wiped out, the west who had ignored their plight claimed that they did not know what was happening to them over there (despite the fact that Hitler had refered to his final solution in his book). Upon getting a new country they were attacked by several countries in more than one war. After all that, they now find themselves geographically cut off from the west in the only place they can truly call a safe home base yet they are surrounded on every border by countries who have wet dreams about wiping them off the face of the earth. One can hardly begrudge them for being a wee bit zealous about their defence. In perspective, if the west loses a war our military would come home with it's tail between it's legs but we would get over it ( and oliver stone &michael moorer would capitalize on it). If Isreal loses the seemingly inevitable war that it is facing Isreal is gone...every man woman and child will be slaughtered in a massacre that would eclipse the holocaust. Isreal faces the most grave threats from it's enemies and has the right to take extreme measures in defending itself. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #23 March 3, 2006 QuoteI could be impressive if I wasn't so darned unimpressive Well, you might not be impressive, but that summary was. (just a note, though..if you really look at history, you'll find that the jews were persecuted far earlier than Christianity's beginnings.) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #24 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteI could be impressive if I wasn't so darned unimpressive Well, you might not be impressive, but that summary was. (just a note, though..if you really look at history, you'll find that the jews were persecuted far earlier than Christianity's beginnings.) Ciels- Michele Gracias Michele, Obvious error on my part missing the pre-christianity persecution. I guess I was mostly refering to the lack of homeland status, that seemed to take place after christianity. Nonetheless, I did omit that and appreciate your correcting me. Cheers, Richards. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #25 March 3, 2006 When Israel was created, the Arab nations chose to not participate, and promised to destroy it. They tried again and again, but have always failed. The Grand Mufti made the refugees by declaring that anyone in the path of his attack would be considered an enemy. Please take a look at the words from a former KGB man about Arafat as an operative: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=673688#673688People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
