If there is Video I guess it did happen

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Guess this whole thing shows how an administration will use someone else as the scapegoat. Seems to me that maybe Brown didn't deserve the linching he got.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SkyDekker 1,465]

you are right, he was really qualified for the position

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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you are right, he was really qualified for the position

It hasn't stopped Bush

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SkyDekker 1,465]

there is a difference between elected and appointed...you are smart enough to know that.

I agree that Brown was made a scape goat, it didn't help that he lied on his resume and wasn't qualified even with an altered resume.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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it didn't help that he lied on his resume and wasn't qualified even with an altered resume.

with all those lies he seems to fit in with the rest of the DC crowd or maybe CEO of a large organization

qualifications aside - bush lied, his admin spun the blame onto someone else. I want the same treatment that Brown got to be handed to the administration now.

seems Brown did his job:
Video footage of the Aug. 28 briefing, the final one before Katrina struck, showed an intense Brown voicing concerns from the government’s disaster operation center and imploring colleagues to do whatever was necessary to help victims.

“We’re going to need everything that we can possibly muster, not only in this state and in the region, but the nation, to respond to this event,” Brown warned. He called the storm “a bad one, a big one” and implored federal agencies to cut through red tape to help people, bending rules if necessary.

“Go ahead and do it,” Brown said. “I’ll figure out some way to justify it. ... Just let them yell at me.”

He even warned against using the Superdome.

Politics at it's finest. They lie and let people die.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[billvon 3,132]

>I don't understand where the idea comes from that if they missused
> the money before then they won't this time. Is that not a typical
> feeling?

Which money are you talking about? The $60 million they got from Congress? The few million the Army Corps of Engineers got for levee protection? The Army Corps money was spent on levee repairs, but was not enough. The $60 million went into a general fund IIRC, and a small part of that (a few million) went to levee reinforcement - and it clearly wasn't enough either. They screwed up there. Answer at the federal level is, in the future, to fund the Army Corps of Engineers, not the New Orleans general fund.

>any way you cut it you still have hundreds of thousands of people
>that refused to evacuate stuck in NO that they have to get out. (I am
> not trying to defend him mistakes that were made, we all know that
> mistakes were made. i think that what i am trying to say here is that
> basically it would seem as though he can do no right.

He did some things right. He fired Brown pretty quickly, which was a good step. He got other things wrong. We should admit them and fix them so we don't make the same mistakes again.

A lot of people see this as a partisan debate - if you can blame the mayor, the republicans "win." If you can blame the president, the democrats "win." And that is a very dumb way to look at this. We all lost, bigtime, when Katrina hit. The president made mistakes, FEMA made mistakes, the local governments made mistakes, and the people made mistakes. The best we can do is learn from the mistakes and correct them. The worst thing we can do is say "no one could have forseen this!" "We did everything we could." Because if we do that nothing gets fixed, and another thousand people die when the next one hits.

>but the fact that he can't do right by parts of the left no matter what
>he does irks me a little bit.

Oh, he can do right, he just does it very seldom. I don't really care what party he's in; I care what he _does._ Diesel emissions legislation? Good idea. Hiring a horse trader to run FEMA? Bad idea. Firing him fast after finding out how bad he was? Good idea.

> . . you can tell me that the mistakes that were made by Bush
> following Katrina were created be situations that could have been
> eleviated prior to landfall had the mayor not had his head up his
> ass.

And FEMA, and the local police. Yes; as I said there were a lot of screwups. We really needed someone to step up to the plate and use their power to get aid there quickly, to manage the evacuation, to deal with the levee situation quickly. No one did.

>He did use the money to build the convention center, you didn't
> dispute that.

If you mean that 60 million - then no, I don't. I have also never seen anything that said it was given to them solely for reinforcing levees.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

AP FRIDAY NIGHT CLARIFICATION ON BUSH/KATRINA VIDEO
Fri Mar 03 2006 19:48:29 ET

Clarification: Katrina-Video story
ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials.

The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.

The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing.

Please raise your hands if you feel stupid now.

(**chirp**chirp**)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun

ONe of the Discovery Channels shows on Katrina.. had sefveral engineere from the Corp there that explained in great detail how the levees and walls were constructed.... and showed animations of how they failed by being overtopped.. which washed out the footings of the concrete walls along the canals... which caused them to topple over allowing the water to rush into the city. They said this was one of the things they were worried about from the excercise earlier for the hypothetical Cat 3 storm that they had run the scenarios for. One of the things they wanted to do with the money that got cut was to reinforce those walls/levees... so the nightmare scenario would have been lessened.

So in conclusion.. same corp..... they new the outcome of the overrun.... the levees did not break... the concrete walls were overtopped.. washed out.. and hence breached...

Too bad you can only try to apologize over and over.... Come on Mr Rove, you can do better than that.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-01-water_x.htm

Suhayda helped with an emergency response exercise last year in which computer models showed that the levees and flood walls guarding the city would be overwhelmed by even a Category 3 hurricane they were designed to withstand. That exercise, run by local, state and federal officials in New Orleans, showed a fictitious Hurricane Pam with winds up to 130 mph leaving a path of destruction eerily similar to Katrina's — a million people evacuated and needing shelter for months, thousands awaiting rescue, up to 600,000 buildings destroyed

[Gravitymaster 0]

Which completely sidestep the original point you tried to make. You still remember it don't you?

[Amazon 7]

The Point GM was you were trying to say in your inimitable way.. that the Corp did not know and the Pres did not know


but on the contrary the Corp knew and the president was told and " we are prepared" the day before the event turned into "no one could have forseen this happening" jus 4 days later.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

The Point GM was you were trying to say in your inimitable way.. that the Corp did not know and the Pres did not know


but on the contrary the Corp knew and the president was told and " we are prepared" the day before the event turned into "no one could have forseen this happening" jus 4 days later.

Apparently discussing this with you is pointless since you seem to have trouble distinguishing the difference between topped and breached. The President was only warned the levees might overflow. This doesn't mean they will breach as anyone who has ever lived in an area with levees can tell you. But go ahead and believe what you want if it helps your ever so important esteem. I will continue to be entertained one way or another.