For those of you outside of New York, how many believe the following about your local Police?

[SuperKat 0]

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That is what most people believe. I have had this discussion with my nephew, Kansas City police officer. He says they have no right to detain a person unless they are actually investigating a crime and you are wanted for questioning.

In NY wanted for questioning does not allow Police to have custody of that person. A person is free to go unless they have committed a crime or a felony. Everyone has Miranda rights. Therefore, you're not obligated to speak.

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Or a well established suspicion of one. You are driving in a bdrug infested neighbourhood and refuse a search. I ams ure they will argue that they have grounds on your refusal alone. They have enough to detain you for an on-site questioning.

In NY this wouldn't fly. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. NY is big on not violating a person's constitutional rights. Unless you are committing a crime or have committed a crime, they cannot search your vehicle. If you consent to have the search done, then you just fried yourself.

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When you start driving away from that, you might just get yourself into more trouble. At least that is how it is here in Ontario

Well, when you're pulled over, for whatever reason, you really can't just drive away like that because they will chase you and you'll be arrested.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Thats a pretty naieve perspective (no offence intended) the police are taken from the public and as such are a microcosim of society. You'll get good cops bad cops and in between. Some days a cop can be all three, just like the rest of us.

The powers that be who hire cops onto a force are not obligated to just cut a cross-section out of society and give them badges.

Therefore, there is no reason to expect that a police force is going to (morally, ethically, racially, religiously, physically, or any other way) reflect the society as a whole.

There is every reason to believe, expect, demand that police forces hire only those people they expect to be the most competent, ethical, moral, upstanding among the applicants.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[freethefly 6]

Superkat, this happened in 1990, I was much younger and real cocky. I could had been cordial and not had told him to fuck himself. That didn't help the matter. But, he did pill me over, as I believe only on my looks, that and being in a drug area. Dawsons Engineering has been in Wellston since the 60's. Long before it turned ghetto. All I had to do is ask if I was under arrest. If he said no, then I could had just left. But, also being an asshole myself, I had to go and open my mouth and make matters worst. I should had just asked one simple question and left. Chances are that is as far as it would had went. For the record, these days it is "yes sir and no sir". Things go much smoother when you are being nice. They respect that. And there are some very fine people in law enforcement. One cop that I will never forget is Detective Fellows of the San Diego PD. More than 6 months after my beloved Les Paul got stolen when my house was robbed, he brought her back to me. He was actually actively looking for it. As for what happened in Wellston, well, it is Wellston and you would have to be familier with the area and the PD to understand how they are. The Wellston police department is an old apartment building on the second floor right above a liquor store . They are as kangaroo as they come and get the guys who could not get hired anywhere else. That being said, most cops I have met have not been bad or treated me like crap. Be nice to them and most likely you will walk away with no hassle.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Or a well established suspicion of one. You are driving in a bdrug infested neighbourhood and refuse a search. I ams ure they will argue that they have grounds on your refusal alone. They have enough to detain you for an on-site questioning. When you start driving away from that, you might just get yourself into more trouble. At least that is how it is here in Ontario

What you're arguing is that being present in a given area (a "bdrug area," apparently) is reason to suspect that a person is conducting illegal drug activities.

You're arguing that assertion and exercise of a right against unreasonable searches is exactly what makes a search reasonable.

I know most of the others here will recognize how absurd (and dangerous) such thinking is, and I am hoping you will be able to join them. Some day.

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I ams ure they will argue that they have grounds on your refusal alone. They have enough to detain you for an on-site questioning.

And you have every right to refuse to answer questions.

How do ya like them apples? The people have rights! Holy shit!

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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What you're arguing is that being present in a given area (a "bdrug area," apparently) is reason to suspect that a person is conducting illegal drug activities.

You're arguing that assertion and exercise of a right against unreasonable searches is exactly what makes a search reasonable.

I know most of the others here will recognize how absurd (and dangerous) such thinking is, and I am hoping you will be able to join them. Some day.

No I am saying how, in my opinion, many cops and some judges reason.

If you really want to test this. Next time you get pulled over....before the officer says anything..ask him if you are under arrest. When he says no, drive off...see what happens.

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And you have every right to refuse to answer questions.

Which is slightly different from the right to just walk away.

[SuperKat 0]

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Things go much smoother when you are being nice. They respect that.

I have to disagree with that. The only time you should be nice and apologetic is when you want to avoid getting a summons. However, if that's your demeanor, then by all means, keep doing it. You don't have to be nice to them so that they're nice to you. I say that because it's a police officer's job to make sure he doesn't violate your constitutional rights. If they do, you can complain about them. Don't get me wrong, everyone would love to be treated with respect. It would make an officers day go so much smoother and pleasant and happy to want to serve his community if people were nicer and respectful to them.

I'm just saying, this wouldn't fly in NY. All cops have to be respectful and can't violate someone's constitutional rights in NY. I'm just a little shocked it's not going that way outside of NY. I may be wrong, it may just be the individual but somethings wrong there. I haven't experienced running into cops outside of NY. Therefore, I can't give my opinion about them.

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More than 6 months after my beloved Les Paul got stolen when my house was robbed, he brought her back to me. He was actually actively looking for it.

You make it sound like he went above and beyond his duties as a police officer. He did his job and that's that. Some might not have been successful but he was. That's what their trained to do.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Skyrad 0]

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Thats a pretty naieve perspective (no offence intended) the police are taken from the public and as such are a microcosim of society. You'll get good cops bad cops and in between. Some days a cop can be all three, just like the rest of us.

The powers that be who hire cops onto a force are not obligated to just cut a cross-section out of society and give them badges.

Therefore, there is no reason to expect that a police force is going to (morally, ethically, racially, religiously, physically, or any other way) reflect the society as a whole.

There is every reason to believe, expect, demand that police forces hire only those people they expect to be the most competent, ethical, moral, upstanding among the applicants.

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Clearly then things are different in the UK. But surely then the most ethical, moral,and upstanding applicants do not come from only one section of society do they?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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What you're arguing is that being present in a given area (a "bdrug area," apparently) is reason to suspect that a person is conducting illegal drug activities.

You're arguing that assertion and exercise of a right against unreasonable searches is exactly what makes a search reasonable.

I know most of the others here will recognize how absurd (and dangerous) such thinking is, and I am hoping you will be able to join them. Some day..

No I am saying how, in my opinion, many cops and some judges reason.

Would you PLEASE learn to search for the PITH of my argument and then address IT, rather than obscure minutiae and fringe elements of my posts?

It's up there, in bold and red. Your reply hardly addresses that; it ducks it. You weren't just "telling me how cops/judges think," now were you. You seemed more to be advocating that line of reasoning; the ol', "If he insists on his right to privacy, he must have something he's hiding that we need to know about. No one who wasn't hiding something illegal would ever desire privacy."


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Airman1270 0]

...Things go much smoother when you are being nice. They respect that...
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I don't live a lifestyle that results in much contact with police, but on the few occasions I have interacted with them I have been firm and polite. There have been a few times where I could have received a ticket, but did not.

A few years ago I passed a Georgia Trooper while going about 72 in a 65 zone. I thought he was concentrating on the guy in front on him in the left lane and, besides, I had passed them at this speed while they were shooting radar at traffic and they never made an issue of it so I thought it was okay.

Yeah, he stopped me. Apparently he was surprised/pissed that I had the nerve to pass him. When he said I was doing 80mph I said, firmly and politely, that I DID exceed 70 but did not go 80. I told my son that I'd be getting a ticket and would have to go to court and pay money. Instead, when he returned he gave me a smile and a warning and told me NEVER to pass a trooper.

On another occasion back in 1997 I was stopped while going 45 in a 40 zone. I thought he was being a prick until he said his radar indicated 63! I later determined it was probably the Blazer speeding up behind me as we rounded the bend that caused the reading. Also, I was driving a Camaro, which didn't help matters.

Once it became clear he was going to cite me I stopped telling him I didn't do it and asked procedural questions. ("What happens now, what do you think my chances are," etc.) He responded helpfully, suggesting the judge might question why I was calling him a liar. I said "No. If you say your machine reads 63 I take you at your word. But I didn't make it do that."

After two court visits I was able to get the charge dismissed without hiring a lawyer, but I'm sure my clean record played a major role in that decision. If I'd had a string of convictions it might not have been so easy. The funny thing is that I'm sure I saw the cop in the hallway to the side of the courtroom. While I was waiting my turn he looked right at me. When my name was called I approached the judge with my paperwork with the circles and arrows and glossy photographs with the paragraphs on the back of each one, etc., ready to explain what I think happened. But she just said "The witness against you has not appeared and you're free to go." I almost said "No! He's back there, I just saw him!" But instead I just said thanks and left.

I ASSume these guys develop that sixth sense which enables them to ferret out a line of bull, and my story had the ring of truth. I also suspect this is the way they handle these situations, rather than allowing the prosecutor to rack up a string of acquittals. Perhaps our cop friends can tell us whether my ASSumptions are accurate.

By the way, while waiting in court I watched a string of people before me. Many of these people had accumulated quite a history in their short lives. Meanwhile, there I was, with a positive attitude, a clean record, and wearing my Rush Limbaugh "No Boundaries" tie, speaking quietly & politely with the prosecutor. Maybe it was just a bad day, but I stood out from the crowd. I don't know if this had any influence on these folks, but it couldn't have hurt my case.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[narcimund 0]

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Would you PLEASE learn to search for the PITH of my argument and then address IT, rather than obscure minutiae and fringe elements of my posts?

Oh, it is going to be SO MUCH FUN to use this quote back at you over and over and over and over again...

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[JohnnyD 0]

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In NY you can't be a bad cop.

The absurdity of that statement is flat out staggering.
Are you not the same guy who came on here soliciting ways to screw over the company you were working for in case you couldn't make it through the academy?
Take some free advice from annuls of AggieDave and PhillyKev: Keep your work life off dz.com. It could return to haunt you.

[SuperKat 0]

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The absurdity of that statement is flat out staggering.
Are you not the same guy who came on here soliciting ways to screw over the company you were working for in case you couldn't make it through the academy?
Take some free advice from annuls of AggieDave and PhillyKev: Keep your work life off dz.com. It could return to haunt you.

My friend, that was old news. I wasn't trying to screw anyone over. I was told to protect myself incase things didn't work out. I didn't realize that my actions were going that route until people here made me realize that. And I didn't end up doing that so why are you hanging me for it? I'm sorry I made a mistake and I corrected it before it even happened. If you still want to hang me for it, then that's your call.

Please tell me what am I doing wrong by mentioning that you can't be a bad cop in NY? It's what we're taught. How is that saying anything bad about the NYPD? Please explain.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[JohnnyD 0]

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Please tell me what am I doing wrong by mentioning that you can't be a bad cop in NY?

If you honestly believe this, there is nothing I could possibly say to make you think any differently. I also gave you some free advice. Take it or don't. Good luck to you.

[SuperKat 0]

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Please tell me what am I doing wrong by mentioning that you can't be a bad cop in NY?

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If you honestly believe this, there is nothing I could possibly say to make you think any differently. I also gave you some free advice. Take it or don't. Good luck to you.

I understand what you are saying. I never said that a bad cop doesn't exist. Don't read between the lines. I just said you can't be a bad cop because they don't teach you to be a bad cop. Bad cops don't get away scott free. There's no chance of that even happening.

You also brought up a topic that was way off base from the thread. In reference to what I have posted in the past for something I haven't even done. It's like looking down on me for thinking about making a low turn under canopy with you directly underneath me but I don't even attempt it. I just thought about it. Why judge me for something I haven't even done? I was misdirected by others and people here put me in the right direction to not even take that approach. And I didn't take that approach. So that chapter is closed, let's leave it closed. Agreed?

I appreciate the free advice. I know you mean well. I appreciate it. I honestly don't think I'm saying anything bad about NY or any other states local police force. I may not realize I am but since you may have noticed I did, then I'll stop. I was just curious, that's all. Thanks again.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[rhys 0]

Here in new zealand cops are generally good naturd people.

however as in all aspects of life there are corrupt individuals that ruin it for the rest. but having said that the further up the chain you go the more corrupt it seems to get.

i can see how joe bloggs who wants to join the force so he can help society can be corrupted with power! people are corrupted by power. once they get to use it they like it and use it even more. if they have no reason, then thay make a reason.

this is just my opinion. from observation.

I have been harassed by a DRUNK cop for no reason who was driving and not wearing his number. I made an appointment to meet with the senior sergant to make an official complaint. befor i could say anything he told me because i am dutch(by name and blood only, i have never set foot in europe!) i am arrogant and ignorant and blah blah blah. i leaned over his desk gave him an earfull of curses and saliva and stormed out feeling lost. i was going to comlain to the police complaints authority but decided it is too small a town to have fuckwits like that against you.

i still respect most police, without them it would be chaos, it just sucks how power corrupts (not unlike dropzone owners, soldiers, businessmen etc.)

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix