rhino 0 #1 February 16, 2006 Bad for Aussies.. Just fucking pathetic.. This goes to show you how fucking useless and selfish news agencies are in general.. unfuckingbelievable.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #2 February 16, 2006 Link? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 February 16, 2006 I just simply choose not to do shit that I wouldn't want on the news. And rhino, who gave that stuff to the Aussies? Obviously someone connected with the military, and I'm not about to lable all military folk as fucking useless and selfish. This news agency needed help doing what it did, My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 February 16, 2006 The Australian press had to do something. The Danish press was getting all the attention. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #5 February 16, 2006 QuoteBad for Aussies.. Just fucking pathetic.. This goes to show you how fucking useless and selfish news agencies are in general.. unfuckingbelievable.. Rhino I agree... shit like prisoner abuse is bet kept behind closed doors..... Next time im down the local park beating up homeless people, in not taking my camera ... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #6 February 16, 2006 You can't pretend it didn't happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #7 February 16, 2006 but the prisoner abuse scandal has ALREADY been released. It wasn't kept behind closed doors at all. It was all over the news. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrion 0 #8 February 16, 2006 Quote Link? http://smh.com.au/ftimages/2006/02/15/1139890768716.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 February 16, 2006 Thanks, Tyrion. I was under the impression that this was a new case, not the old one being rehashed. Maybe that's what the media meant to portray, or perhaps I just didn't hear it right when there was a squib earlier. But I've got to say I'm relieved it's not new news... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #10 February 16, 2006 The ABC piece contained a large number of photographs that the DoD still refuses to release, despite a FOI ruling against DoD. This is not a simple case of a couple of guys getting stripped and beaten- some of these men were shot at with LIVE rounds whilst unarmed and within the prison, not just "non-lethal" ammunition. Most of these prisoners have been incarcerated for petty crimes, not aggravated or serious offences eg murder, attacking US troops etc. Cover ups help no-one, they merely allow a rotting wound to fester. And before anyone starts up, I'm not some tree-hugging anti-war hippy, I have friends serving too. But by denying freedom to those who seek it and by denying honesty and justice to the victims of the people who did this, we disgrace the very ideals we hold dearest and insult those who wear the uniform to protect those principles. Edited to add:Time changes but some things do not. Juvenal sums it up nicely- "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who will guard the guards?)xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #11 February 16, 2006 QuoteBad for Aussies.. Just fucking pathetic.. This goes to show you how fucking useless and selfish news agencies are in general.. unfuckingbelievable.. Rhino Do you not support freedom of speech and freedom of the press? It's not like they made it up. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 February 16, 2006 QuoteYou can't pretend it didn't happen. if you want to see what abuse is check out what the enemy does to anyone captured or wounded and caught. most of the so called abuse is nearly fraternity pranks by comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #13 February 16, 2006 This does not make it right. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #14 February 16, 2006 QuoteCover ups help no-one, they merely allow a rotting wound to fester. Speaking as an Irishman, the cover-up of Bloody Sunday was directly responsible for the radicalisation of much of the Catholic population of Northern Ireland, and led pretty directly to 30 years of war and over 3000 deaths. Cover ups help no-one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #15 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou can't pretend it didn't happen. if you want to see what abuse is check out what the enemy does to anyone captured or wounded and caught. most of the so called abuse is nearly fraternity pranks by comparison. So? What's that got to do with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #16 February 16, 2006 I think we're treading a very fine line; its more than a bit rich for us to violate and ignore the Geneva convention and then bemoan when our own are not afforded its protection. Some of the insurgent groups are doing horrific things, but we need to be ever mindful that we don't end up becoming the horror, that these people are proclaiming us to be.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #17 February 16, 2006 Apparently these pics are only being shown publicly now because the USDoD has lost a 3 year(?) legal battle to stop them being published! Of course, responsible news agencies are making it clear that the abuse is old news and THE story is the USDoD losing its legal battle. Unfortunately, some news agencies are feeding their markets. The BBC did an excellent piece concluding that the USDoD really should have allowed publication of ALL the pics at the time, taken the hit, and kept a reputation for honesty. The way these pics have finally been published is more damaging since it shows the USDoD to be duplicitous. This isn't helped by the results of their enquiry which resulted in only enlisted personnel being jailed, with only ONE senior officer being "reprimanded". It all smells of an ongoing cover-up. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #18 February 16, 2006 QuoteThis isn't helped by the results of their enquiry which resulted in only enlisted personnel being jailed, with only ONE senior officer being "reprimanded". This is what disgusts me more than anything about this whole thing. I will never get over the fact that these two enlisted soldiers took all the blame for this whole ordeal. I highly doubt that they took it upon themselves to do this stuff without orders. Plus, if I remember some of the pictures showed CIA officials in them whom I heard orchestrated these activities. These poor enlisted soldiers were damned no matter what just by being there. Punishing them was a way to ease the public and Iraq without showing that this stuff came from up top. I'm a right-winger that loves this country, but the injustice done to these two soldiers is sickening to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #19 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis isn't helped by the results of their enquiry which resulted in only enlisted personnel being jailed, with only ONE senior officer being "reprimanded". This is what disgusts me more than anything about this whole thing. I will never get over the fact that these two enlisted soldiers took all the blame for this whole ordeal. I highly doubt that they took it upon themselves to do this stuff without orders. Plus, if I remember some of the pictures showed CIA officials in them whom I heard orchestrated these activities. These poor enlisted soldiers were damned no matter what just by being there. Punishing them was a way to ease the public and Iraq without showing that this stuff came from up top. I'm a right-winger that loves this country, but the injustice done to these two soldiers is sickening to me. Finally someone has hit the nail on the head!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #20 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou can't pretend it didn't happen. if you want to see what abuse is check out what the enemy does to anyone captured or wounded and caught. most of the so called abuse is nearly fraternity pranks by comparison. Oh, well, that's OK, then. Carry on. As you were.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #21 February 16, 2006 QuoteI was under the impression that this was a new case, not the old one being rehashed. Maybe that's what the media meant to portray... Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered, as if to suggest that nothing was fixed the first time, and it's still been happening the same way all along. Any old media distortion will suffice as long as it makes the Bush administration look bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #22 February 16, 2006 It's somewhere between old news and new news. It's pictures of old stuff, but the new news is that these seem to confirm that the official word on the abuses (that they were minor, very limited in scope, and only a couple of people were involved) is largely bullshit. Apparently these pictures also show some new twists that weren't there in the original set. That's really unfortunate. The only good lie is one that stays lied. When there are pictures, there is no fucking way it will every stay lied. Lawrocket's plan is the best -- don't do stuff that you don't want to have to answer questions about later. That includes both torture, and lying about it. And this news story is why I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about the Pentagon, WTC, moon landing, or any of the others. Too many people want to get on Jerry Springer. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #23 February 17, 2006 QuoteIt's somewhere between old news and new news. It's pictures of old stuff, but the new news is that these seem to confirm that the official word on the abuses (that they were minor, very limited in scope, and only a couple of people were involved) is largely bullshit. Apparently these pictures also show some new twists that weren't there in the original set. That's really unfortunate. The only good lie is one that stays lied. When there are pictures, there is no fucking way it will every stay lied. Lawrocket's plan is the best -- don't do stuff that you don't want to have to answer questions about later. That includes both torture, and lying about it. And this news story is why I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about the Pentagon, WTC, moon landing, or any of the others. Too many people want to get on Jerry Springer. Wendy W. It's news because the Pentagon has been working very hard to prevent their publication.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #24 February 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteI was under the impression that this was a new case, not the old one being rehashed. Maybe that's what the media meant to portray... Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered, as if to suggest that nothing was fixed the first time, and it's still been happening the same way all along. Any old media distortion will suffice as long as it makes the Bush administration look bad. "Today, on the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, the United States declares its strong solidarity with torture victims across the world. Torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere. We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law. Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States and more than 130 other countries since 1984, forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control. Yet torture continues to be practiced around the world by rogue regimes whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit. Beating, burning, rape, and electric shock are some of the grisly tools such regimes use to terrorize their own citizens. These despicable crimes cannot be tolerated by a world committed to justice." George W. Bush, June 26, 2003.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jasmin 0 #25 February 17, 2006 Quote Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered. No. Wrong. Unlike you, I actually saw the ABC piece (& smh article) that this thread is about and they repeatedly stressed that these were not new pictures or new events. The focus of the piece was that the DoD still refuses to acknowledge or admit the extent of the violence/torture and that there is a systemic problem here (ie not just two "bad apple" soldiers,) that still hasn't been addressed.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." 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kallend 2,150 #20 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou can't pretend it didn't happen. if you want to see what abuse is check out what the enemy does to anyone captured or wounded and caught. most of the so called abuse is nearly fraternity pranks by comparison. Oh, well, that's OK, then. Carry on. As you were.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #21 February 16, 2006 QuoteI was under the impression that this was a new case, not the old one being rehashed. Maybe that's what the media meant to portray... Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered, as if to suggest that nothing was fixed the first time, and it's still been happening the same way all along. Any old media distortion will suffice as long as it makes the Bush administration look bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #22 February 16, 2006 It's somewhere between old news and new news. It's pictures of old stuff, but the new news is that these seem to confirm that the official word on the abuses (that they were minor, very limited in scope, and only a couple of people were involved) is largely bullshit. Apparently these pictures also show some new twists that weren't there in the original set. That's really unfortunate. The only good lie is one that stays lied. When there are pictures, there is no fucking way it will every stay lied. Lawrocket's plan is the best -- don't do stuff that you don't want to have to answer questions about later. That includes both torture, and lying about it. And this news story is why I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about the Pentagon, WTC, moon landing, or any of the others. Too many people want to get on Jerry Springer. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #23 February 17, 2006 QuoteIt's somewhere between old news and new news. It's pictures of old stuff, but the new news is that these seem to confirm that the official word on the abuses (that they were minor, very limited in scope, and only a couple of people were involved) is largely bullshit. Apparently these pictures also show some new twists that weren't there in the original set. That's really unfortunate. The only good lie is one that stays lied. When there are pictures, there is no fucking way it will every stay lied. Lawrocket's plan is the best -- don't do stuff that you don't want to have to answer questions about later. That includes both torture, and lying about it. And this news story is why I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about the Pentagon, WTC, moon landing, or any of the others. Too many people want to get on Jerry Springer. Wendy W. It's news because the Pentagon has been working very hard to prevent their publication.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #24 February 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteI was under the impression that this was a new case, not the old one being rehashed. Maybe that's what the media meant to portray... Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered, as if to suggest that nothing was fixed the first time, and it's still been happening the same way all along. Any old media distortion will suffice as long as it makes the Bush administration look bad. "Today, on the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, the United States declares its strong solidarity with torture victims across the world. Torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere. We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law. Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States and more than 130 other countries since 1984, forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control. Yet torture continues to be practiced around the world by rogue regimes whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit. Beating, burning, rape, and electric shock are some of the grisly tools such regimes use to terrorize their own citizens. These despicable crimes cannot be tolerated by a world committed to justice." George W. Bush, June 26, 2003.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #25 February 17, 2006 Quote Ding ding ding! You're a winner. These are old photos, that are just now being published. And they're trying to make it sound like it's new abuses that have been uncovered. No. Wrong. Unlike you, I actually saw the ABC piece (& smh article) that this thread is about and they repeatedly stressed that these were not new pictures or new events. The focus of the piece was that the DoD still refuses to acknowledge or admit the extent of the violence/torture and that there is a systemic problem here (ie not just two "bad apple" soldiers,) that still hasn't been addressed.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
