Why you Cannot Reason with Political Hardliners

[lawrocket 3]

This was a column by Dan Walters a couple of days ago.

It was about research at Emory University. "Drew Westen assembled a panel of 30 men evenly divided between those who identified themselves as committed Democrats or Republicans...Researchers found that when confronted with facts that conflicted with their beliefs about either of the two candidates, the men essentially shut down the reasoning portions of their brains, rejecting any input that undercut their preconceived assumptions."

Mr. Walters points out that the large proportion of people in this country and world are not committed to either party. But their reasoning is lost in the process because, well, those hardliners drown it out.

Julian Bond of the NAACP really believes what he says. Facts and reason are ineffective with him. And those who most strenuously support him (or hate who he hates) are also likely to not have their opinions controverted or changed by facts. On the flip side, those who oppose Julian Bonds and his statements most strenuously would lack the ability to figure out where he is coming from and find some reason why he believes what he believes.

This, of course, is a prime example of what's wrong with political groups. You really shouldn't have organizations whose leadership is blinded to facts and logic. Hell, we see it with the Bush Admin, too. Actually, I think we find it in every polity.

So, don't get too upset at posters here who are all-encompassed in ideology. Research suggests that not only do they become incapable of reason and logic, but they get a certain rush from blinding themselves to facts and reason. "Feeding the trolls" is exactly that, only they don't know that they are troling.

Still, you can put out your logic and reasoning for others to see.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Exactly!!!

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[warpedskydiver 0]

It's a shame in the US when believing in our constitution gets branded far right hardliner!

I mean damn what an offense that is!

I don't see things in that manner at all I am all for helping the downtrodden while not infringing upon the rights of others in the process.

I belive those who would legislate our rights away deserve truly to suffer from the erosion of those rights.

However nice that our elected officials actually do not obey the rules they impose upon us.

TED KENNEDY ARE YOU LISTENING?

[GTAVercetti 0]

I think the replies to this thread are going to be awesome. I think they will encompass this notion:

Definitely, and that is why I am not a hardliner. I can be reasoned with. Its just the other side that are morons who cannot see the facts.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[wmw999 2,584]

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Definitely, and that is why I am not a hardliner. I can be reasoned with. Its just the other side that are morons who cannot see the facts.

How'd you know what I was going to say?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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Definitely, and that is why I am not a hardliner. I can be reasoned with. Its just the other side that are morons who cannot see the facts.

How'd you know what I was going to say?

I was trying to compose the same thought myself.

I think people shut down when presented with opposing viewpoints because very few political viewpoints can be distilled down to anything more logical than an (loud and outraged) appeal to emotion. So what's the point of weighing either side.

Better to just sit down, watch an episode of the A-Team and eat a sammich.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm a hardliner. I'm well aware everyone else is less intelligent than me.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[SkyDekker 1,465]

so what happens when you believe that not one party is better than the other. When you believe that change is good and sometimes conservatives should be in power and sometimes liberals should be in power?

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I'm a hardliner. I'm well aware everyone else is less intelligent than me.

You mean everyone except me, right?

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rasmack 0]

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It's a shame in the US when believing in our constitution gets branded far right hardliner!

I mean damn what an offense that is!

Someone just may have a different interpretation than you, not to mention a different set of norms and values in the context of which the constitution is naturally understood differently from your reading of it.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[dropoutdave 0]

I'll never understand that, I love to be proved wrong, except when i'm right.

------------------------------------------------------
May Contain Nut traces......

[lawrocket 3]

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It's a shame in the US when believing in our constitution gets branded far right hardliner!

Only a hardliner would brand someone else a hardliner for such a vague thought.

I believe in the Constitution. I've sworn to protect it on five separate occasions. Logical discussion about what that means does not make a hardliner. But, stating things like, "Ted Kennedy's view of the Constitution is that of a paper towel to be used to clean up his hangover vomit." Well, that's not really a supportable position.

A hardliner is someone who takes viewpoints that cannot be supported by fact. "Cheney shot somebody." That's a factual position. "Cheney almost killed somebody." That's a factual position. "Cheney tried to murder somebody." Whoa, now. Step back. We don't know that yet. "Cheney wishes that he could go quail hunting at the Democratic National Convention." Again, a statement not based in fact.

State opinions and facts to support them, and you won't be a hardliner. Listen to opposing facts and reasoning and you won't be a hardliner. But if you state facts and opinions without paying attention to other facts that may indicate that your facts may be incorrect or misconstrued, then you'll be a hardliner.

Nobody who engages in rational discussion will be a "hardliner." Billvon is a great example of this. I disagree with him often, but damn, it's hard to ever find a time when he is wrong. And when he is wrong, and he gets called on it, he owns up to it. I tip my hat to that.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NWFlyer 2]

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so what happens when you believe that not one party is better than the other. When you believe that change is good and sometimes conservatives should be in power and sometimes liberals should be in power?

I didn't say I believed in anything other than everyone else is less intelligent than me.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm a hardliner. I'm well aware everyone else is less intelligent than me.

You mean everyone except me, right?

You, too.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

lol, I wasn't really replying to you in particular

[wmw999 2,584]

The best thing about not being able to reason with hardliners (it goes beyond politics) is that you can reason at them. That lets you feel all superior to them, and it's free . Then you can repeat the "don't try to reason with pigs" saying, and feel even better.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Darius11 12]

That explains a lot.

I have noticed even when you sit people down and show them facts. Hard Facts they will still not change there view or admit they are wrong.

It is actually really sad to hear about this study. We all have beliefs and we all have beliefs that we believe in very strongly. So I guess no matter what there is something’s for every one that no matter what the facts say will never change and that makes me sad.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Nightingale 0]

The same could probably be said about anyone who believes anything despite significant evidence to the contrary.

[miked10270 0]

The important thing to note is that this was a study of AMERICAN MEN!

Therefore, since there's absolutely NO evidence to the contrary... GIRLIES and NON-AMERICANS can be reasoned with.

Is this REALLY supposed to come as any sort of a surprise?

Mike.

Edited to append the caveat; "Three out of Four weeks" to GIRLIES! Now... All we only hav eto establish which three weeks!

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[lawrocket 3]

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So I guess no matter what there is something’s for every one that no matter what the facts say will never change and that makes me sad.

99 percent of the time, I think that this is accurate. But I also have to think that there are visionaries who have bettered our society and world by thinking outside the box. After all, it was an accepted fact that the 4:00 mile was unbreakable. It's now been broken thousands of times.

Often, the facts are based on our limitation of knowledge. Humans have limits, and what may be wrong now might be right in 10, 20 or 50 years, once we view things differently.

But, these are not matters of pragmatism. There are times when people are just plain wrong. So much of it is pride. It takes a lot more balls to apologize for something than it does to do the thing that is worthy of apology.

Unfortunately, politically, each person who will say such things has hundreds, thousands or millions who will listen. Dan Walters cited Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore (which is ironic because I think Walters did the forward for one of Rush's books). These are two people who will say what people want to hear, and often times, screw the facts.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wmw999 2,584]

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The important thing to note is that this was a study of AMERICAN MEN!

Therefore, since there's absolutely NO evidence to the contrary... GIRLIES and NON-AMERICANS can be reasoned with.

Awesome

With chocolate, some girlies can be bought. But not bought off the right to vote

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[warpedskydiver 0]

I concur

[rehmwa 2]

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With chocolate, some girlies can be bought. But not bought off the right to vote

Those poor, poor women. In constant suffrage, won't someone help stop the suffraging?

Isn't there compassion in the world anymore?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants