Gravitymaster 0 #76 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhere did anyone get the idea that Cheney was drinking? Only in Cheney's statement that he had "a beer" at lunch. But he could have been lying just to disredit the vice president..... You do realize the shooting took place about 7am, don't you? Edited to add: I meant 7pm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #77 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhere did anyone get the idea that Cheney was drinking? Only in Cheney's statement that he had "a beer" at lunch. But he could have been lying just to disredit the vice president..... You do realize the shooting took place about 7am, don't you? Isn't that why they call those small bottles "breakfast beers"? "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #78 February 16, 2006 QuoteSo you don't have any evidence. OK, why not just say so instead of writing a long boring essay? It wasn't boring. You're just mean and all your responses to people lack substance in lieu of just petty sniping. I like it. and you have "lots of evidence" that people "in general" "wish" to retain theirs against the "depredations" of this administration right, I can see how that's so much more compelling when talking about a specific accident investigation in the news if you'd avoid the word evidence and just note that we are coming at this from different directions in terms of opinions only, then it would be more constructive Anyway - how about that hypothetical with the model plane accident - what would you do? can you answer it without picking about it in a futile way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #79 February 16, 2006 The shooting took place at 5:50 PM according to the Secret Service. Timeline of the incident & aftermath: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/16/america/web.0216timeline.php Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #80 February 16, 2006 QuoteYou do realize the shooting took place about 7am, don't you? Edited to add: I meant 7pm. you asked the question of where did I get the idea he was drinking. It was from his statement that he was drinking. Your honor, I only wish to note that Mr. Cheney has already admitted to having a 'drink' at lunch some hours earlier, thus setting up the expectation that he may also have had something at dinner or during the afternoon. I'd only like to explore this further to see if has any bearing in his actions later. Further, the delay in interview of 14 hours has completely eliminated any opportunity for substantive and objective evidence which could have determined conclusively his blood alcohol level at the time of the accident. Further, Mr. Cheney's prescription history may bear out that even a single drink some 6 hours earlier may have interactions with his medications that he might have been unaware of. Therefore, the only recourse remaining is through interview with the members of the hunting party and Mr. Cheney's staff and also discussions with various doctors and pharacists. I don't think that anyone "out to get" the VP (in the interests of protecting the civil rights of some stranger in Virginia) would say that working these questions is absolutely nuts. And, hey, if it turns out he's was completely clean by the time of the accident, at the least the news can run with this do whatever damage they can up to that point. Hell, the article noting he was completely clean wouldn't even have to make the paper or news services at all. We just have to keep Fox from finding out. the other news agencies will hide it without our asking. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #81 February 16, 2006 QuoteThe shooting took place at 5:50 PM according to the Secret Service. http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/16/america/web.0216timeline.php you can't trust the secret service. they aren't cops. Nor are they watchmakers. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #82 February 16, 2006 whatever. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #83 February 16, 2006 Quotethe point is, delaying the interview because of having a beer at lunch or while hunting is very likely advised for anyone (priveleged or not) smart enough to get counsel before notifying the police - because drinking and hunting is wrong. It seems to mean it would only be advisable if there was enough alcohol in your blood to be detected in a breathalyzer. If Cheney only had a beer during lunch, it's unlikely that there would be any detectable alcohol at 7PM. Why should there be a need for delay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #84 February 16, 2006 QuoteIt seems to mean it would only be advisable if there was enough alcohol in your blood to be detected in a breathalyzer. If Cheney only had a beer during lunch, it's unlikely that there would be any detectable alcohol at 7PM. Why should there be a need for delay? I'm not saying I believe the theory, just that it's not that big a deal that people are asking about it. As far as the 14 hour delay to interview. Let's look at the timeline and see how nuts it is. These are just guesses people: 5:50 (whatever) guys gets shot - Since a doc is on hand there is likely some medical attention applied in the field for a bit, it takes what, a half hour for that and another hour to or so to get to the hospital? 6:15 at the hospital - check in even in the emergency room takes forever. 7:00 guy sees a doctor. At this point, the local cops are called now that the victim is being treated (the first priority is covered) 7:30 the report is taken by the cops - likely given by Cheney's lawyer. It's now the middle of the evening, and the local cops probably have the administrative staff at home. It's an accident, so they aren't all gung ho to come in to take a statement. Set up an appoinment for first thing in the morning. Say 8:00 am (this is a small town so people get up earlier than those in the big cities) 8:00 am statement given let's see the math here - 6 pm the accident happens. 8 am statement given. That about what? 14 hours or so. Nope, doesn't check out. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #85 February 16, 2006 QuoteThe shooting took place at 5:50 PM according to the Secret Service. Timeline of the incident & aftermath: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/16/america/web.0216timeline.php I should have known better than to believe CNN. They had it at 6:50 PM. Quote6:50 p.m While aiming for a quail, Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter Harry Whittington, striking him in the face, neck and chest with numerous pellets of birdshot. Medical staff, Secret Service agents and members of the hunting party administer first aid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #86 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt seems to mean it would only be advisable if there was enough alcohol in your blood to be detected in a breathalyzer. If Cheney only had a beer during lunch, it's unlikely that there would be any detectable alcohol at 7PM. Why should there be a need for delay? I'm not saying I believe the theory, just that it's not that big a deal that people are asking about it. As far as the 14 hour delay to interview. Let's look at the timeline and see how nuts it is. These are just guesses people: 5:50 (whatever) guys gets shot - Since a doc is on hand there is likely some medical attention applied in the field for a bit, it takes what, a half hour for that and another hour to or so to get to the hospital? 6:15 at the hospital - check in even in the emergency room takes forever. 7:00 guy sees a doctor. At this point, the local cops are called now that the victim is being treated (the first priority is covered) 7:30 the report is taken by the cops - likely given by Cheney's lawyer. It's now the middle of the evening, and the local cops probably have the administrative staff at home. It's an accident, so they aren't all gung ho to come in to take a statement. Set up an appoinment for first thing in the morning. Say 8:00 am (this is a small town so people get up earlier than those in the big cities) 8:00 am statement given let's see the math here - 6 pm the accident happens. 8 am statement given. That about what? 14 hours or so. Nope, doesn't check out. The fact remains that if you, I, or anyone else on the forums were a shooter in a hunting accident or a driver in a car accident where someone was seriously hurt, the police would want to interview us right away. They wouldn't just take our word for it that alcohol or other contributing circumstances were not involved. True, if we were privileged enough to have a lawyer who could get us a delay, we could get away with it. However, whenever that happens there are always lingering questions as to what really happened. The problem with this incident is a lot of people's logic is clouded by the politics involved (on both sides). To try to get away from that, just try visualizing the incident with someone non-political as the shooter and someone you really cared about as the person shot. You'd want to know if alcohol was involved there, wouldn't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #87 February 16, 2006 Hmmmm http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/general/licenses/ A NON-RESIDENT is any person who does not meet the requirements listed for qualification as a Texas resident. It is unlawful to: hunt or fish without a valid license, or a permit and stamp endorsement on your person and available for inspection by a game warden, unless exempt by age, program or a reciprocal agreement with another state. And the PDF at http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/nonpwdpubs/media/outdoor_annual_2005_2006.pdf Has the information on the stamp at the very top of the page. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/general/penalties/ Criminal Penalties and Civil Value Recovery If you violate fish and wildlife laws, in addition to civil restitution you may: be fined (Class C - $25-$500; Class B - $200-$2000; Class A - $500-$4000; State Jail Felony, $1500-$10,000); It is interesting to note ... that NOWHERE in the Texas regulations did I find any mention about hunting under the influence. Here in WA.. right in the regualtions it is so stated that it is prohibited. The courts will yank your ability to hunt for a few years if you are caught hunting while intoxicated in even the slightest way. This one is a pet p[eeve of mine since I got shot by a drunk when I was a kid. Imparied judgement after having a few drinks/beers is a known factor in way too many hunting" accidents" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #88 February 16, 2006 It's been legal to drink while driving in Texas. As long as you weren't drunk, or something like that. Personally, I still think it was handled about how a similar injury among people who knew each other would be handled. In Texas. If the shooter didn't know or wasn't hunting with the shootee, then they might not wait. If the shootee were fatally injured, then they might not wait. That doesn't make me like Cheney any better, but that whole thing about rights are only worth something if the people you disagree with deserve them also. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #89 February 16, 2006 Quote The fact remains that if you, I, or anyone else on the forums were a shooter in a hunting accident or a driver in a car accident where someone was seriously hurt, the police would want to interview us right away. They wouldn't just take our word for it that alcohol or other contributing circumstances were not involved. They may want but they may not go out of their way to do so. I am not sure about Texas but I know that in other places the police would be content to wait until morning a case like this. That is two friends hunting together and one gets hit with bird shot. It is sad to say but from time to time someone hits their dog of buddy with bird shot. Quote The problem with this incident is a lot of people's logic is clouded by the politics involved (on both sides). To try to get away from that, just try visualizing the incident with someone non-political as the shooter and someone you really cared about as the person shot. You'd want to know if alcohol was involved there, wouldn't you? Then I would be content to ask the person who was shot about it. And if they were drunk I could tell them how stupid they were. If the friend that shot him was drunk, then the guy who got shot it just as stupid for hunting with him imo. And if one was drunk there is good chance they both were drinking. Remember these were buddies. Even if it was my Wife that was shot I would not be furious that the cops did not interview right away. I would ask my wife what the fuck happened and if she said they were drinking I would handle it. How do we go from a beer at lunch to being drunk hours later anyway? This is stupid thread That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #90 February 16, 2006 QuoteThe fact remains that if you, I, or anyone else on the forums were a shooter in a hunting accident The "facts" remains is we have no idea what would happen if one of us was in the same situation with that particular police department in that particular town and that instant in time. you're assuming, so am I QuoteTrue, if we were privileged enough to have a lawyer who could get us a delay, we could get away with it. However, whenever that happens there are always lingering questions as to what really happened. Which anyone could do if they had the money. So it's not special treatment is it? It a personal resource/experience/knowledge thing. QuoteThe problem with this incident is a lot of people's logic is clouded by the politics involved (on both sides). To try to get away from that, just try visualizing the incident with someone non-political as the shooter Totally agree with that. But why can't you put yourself in the place of both the victim AND the shooter and emphathize that way. Most of the liberals here would emphathize with the shooter and protect his civil rights. In fact, why do we have to "emphathize" with either person at all instead of just looking at the facts and following the law? Why do we need to think the only way to understand something is try and make and emotional connection to one of the participants? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #91 February 16, 2006 QuoteThis is stupid thread best comment so far (but it still remain fun to debate with city boys on issues of how accidents hunting and on the farm and in the woods are handled by small town cops - I think the idealism in some of the comments are admirable if a bit out of touch for some areas) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #92 February 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis is stupid thread best comment so far (but it still remain fun to debate with city boys on issues of how accidents hunting and on the farm and in the woods are handled by small town cops - I think the idealism in some of the comments are admirable if a bit out of touch for some areas) Believe me, I have just as much fun with you slack jawed yokels! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 February 16, 2006 Quotebut it still remain fun to debate with city boys . . Believe me, I have just as much fun with you slack jawed yokels! I am so glad we got that part straight. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #94 February 16, 2006 QuoteHow do we go from a beer at lunch to being drunk hours later anyway? That's funny, I asked myself that exact same question last St. Patrick's day. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #95 February 17, 2006 been there! That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #96 February 17, 2006 QuoteDo you know the difference between Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton? They both tried to shoot someone in the face but Clinton missed. illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #97 February 17, 2006 QuoteWell, that's OK then, isn't it. Happens all the time. No problem. Um, do you need me to repeat it? Yeah, there's no problem in the sense that what happened w/ Cheney and his bigger idiot of a friend happens a lot and thus there should not be a fuss made about Cheney's when there's not a fuss made about every other one that happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #98 February 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow do we go from a beer at lunch to being drunk hours later anyway? That's funny, I asked myself that exact same question last St. Patrick's day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #99 February 17, 2006 "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy ." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #100 February 17, 2006 QuoteHow do we go from a beer at lunch to being drunk hours later anyway? What kind of man are you to have to ask that question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
