Dick Cheney/ Quail Hunting/Our Vice President.

[happythoughts 0]

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The bigger issue is how long it took for the police to interview Cheney. 14 hours. That's how he was treated differently than an ordinary citizen.

Some people flee the country to avoid arrest. I basically doubt that there is a danger of that.

Actually, he isn't an ordinary citizen. But I agree that he should have been a little more prompt anyway, if for no other reason than the press crap that follows.

I think that he is not an "aware" hunter. Carrying a gun is too serious to just wander around.

When hunting in a line, birds often fly towards the hunters and through the line. Idiots will swing towards the line. A person who is too far forward can put themselves in danger.

Quail are one of the fastest flyers and people get too jumpy when they come up. Perhaps he is getting a little unsafe and should re-think his participation.

[likearock 2]

In any accident scenario, whether it be a car accident or gun accident, the appropriate action is for the shooter/driver to be interviewed as soon as possible by the police (and no, the Secret Service is not equivalent to the police no matter how many time GM repeats it). This is done for a number of reasons not the least of which being to dispel questions of negligence or any other activity that could make the incident more than just an accident. And if the shooter were anyone else, you'd have no problem seeing the importance of this policy.

I'm not suggesting that there was anything wrong that Cheney had to worry about in this particular case so spare me the strawman arguments that I'm saying he was drunk or some other thing. However, he should have submitted to a police interview that same night just as anyone else would have had to. He shouldn't have gotten a pass just because he's Vice President.

[Amazon 7]

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He shouldn't have gotten a pass just because he's Vice President.

DUDE.. if this was Clinton or Kerry.. all these same people saying no big deal... would be looking congressional investigations... and special prosecutors.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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It's not clear to me. Was it 14 hours before the police knew about it? or just 14 hours before the police interviewed him? or just 14 hours before the whitehouse press corps was notified?

I'd think notifying the cops and an interview are completely different things. And if it was an accident, I'd not think about the cops at all, I'd be thinking about the hospital. And hospitals are required to report shooting injuries (accidental or not) to the police. So why isn't any delay in notification of a shooting injury the legal responsibility of the hospital.

If a gun is a tool, why report an accident. if you accidentally slice you hand with a kitchen knife, do you call the cops? What's the law say? I don't really know.

(the average Joe could commit murder, and get a lawyer PRIOR to confessing, and that process could take a long time too and still be legal. Really, I saw it on Quincy ME a couple decades ago).

I didn't give a damn about this story until this thread. but.. here goes.

From what I have read, the Sheriff was notified about an hour after the shooting, they interviewed Cheney about 14 hours later, and the press was notified the next day. The story seems to be a kind of retaliation from the press because the owner of the ranch notified a local paper instead of the MSM.

I haven't been able to find anything that suggests that the interview of Cheney by the Sheriff, 14 hours after the shooting was anything out of the ordinary. You and I both know if there was something odd about it, we would be reading it everywhere. But I can't find anybody except Likearock who thinks it's unusual.

[masterrig 1]

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It's not clear to me. Was it 14 hours before the police knew about it? or just 14 hours before the police interviewed him? or just 14 hours before the whitehouse press corps was notified?

I'd think notifying the cops and an interview are completely different things. And if it was an accident, I'd not think about the cops at all, I'd be thinking about the hospital. And hospitals are required to report shooting injuries (accidental or not) to the police. So why isn't any delay in notification of a shooting injury the legal responsibility of the hospital.

If a gun is a tool, why report an accident. if you accidentally slice you hand with a kitchen knife, do you call the cops? What's the law say? I don't really know.

(the average Joe could commit murder, and get a lawyer PRIOR to confessing, and that process could take a long time too and still be legal. Really, I saw it on Quincy ME a couple decades ago).

I didn't give a damn about this story until this thread. but.. here goes.

From what I have read, the Sheriff was notified about an hour after the shooting, they interviewed Cheney about 14 hours later, and the press was notified the next day. The story seems to be a kind of retaliation from the press because the owner of the ranch notified a local paper instead of the MSM.

I haven't been able to find anything that suggests that the interview of Cheney by the Sheriff, 14 hours after the shooting was anything out of the ordinary. You and I both know if there was something odd about it, we would be reading it everywhere. But I can't find anybody except Likearock who thinks it's unusual.

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Hunting accidents happen every season. Incidents 'might' get a small 'blurb' on the back page of the local newspaper. Because, the Vice President is involved, it's a big deal. The press is pissed because they didn't get the story first. Now, there's a big deal about booze being involved because, the V.P. had a beer with his meal. a couple hours before the incident. I can't believe that there was any intent on the V.P.'s part. It was an unfortunate accident. Some folks are screaming 'cover-up' on the part of the V.P. and all kinds of ridiculous crap. I am quite certain, the V.P. is feeling quite badly about all this. I think too, there is just a bunch of the typical 'knee-jerk' thing going on and everybody is getting all riled up about it. Too many folks with a 'lynch-mob' mentality wanting too much over a damned accident. i say, let it drop. We have bigger things to worry about.


Chuck

[rehmwa 2]

1 - I agree that the SS is not the police. That's weak, but what's the point of arguing with GM on it.

2 - I don't think the theory of him having a few drinks so he used (every legal means) to delay an interview is a strawman. I think it rather likely. But the only point is whether the delay between notification of the local law (immediate) and the delay for the interview (14 hours) was in any way illegal or inappropriate. I don't see anything unusual with the delay.

I think anybody who understands their rights and has good legal advice would also have been able to wait 14 hours. So no special consideration happened. He just had better counsel. That's not illegal and 'anyone else' could likely also done it if in his shoes.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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NO - people wish their rights would be respected the same way his were.

You say "NO", but then the following statement is exactly in agreement to my post you quoted.

So can I infer from your statement that you also think Cheney's rights should NOT be respected?

Do you sometimes check peoples homework wrong when they get it right?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[likearock 2]

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2 - I don't think the theory of him having a few drinks so he used (every legal means) to delay an interview is a strawman. I think it rather likely.

Are you saying that it's okay to go out hunting after a few drinks? How many?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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1 - I agree that the SS is not the police. That's weak, but what's the point of arguing with GM on it.

Indeed.

***Role

Secret Service Special Agents (foreground) protect the President of the United States.
Secret Service countersniper team
Secret Service White House policeThe Secret Service has primary jurisdiction over the prevention of counterfeiting of U.S. currency and U.S. treasury bonds and notes, and protection of the President, Vice President, their immediate families, other high ranking government officials, past presidents and their spouses, certain candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, and visiting foreign heads of state and government (all called "protectees"). It also investigates a wide variety of financial fraud crimes and identity theft and provides forensics assistance for some local crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service

[kallend 2,150]

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NO - people wish their rights would be respected the same way his were.

You say "NO", but then the following statement is exactly in agreement to my post you quoted.

So can I infer from your statement that you also think Cheney's rights should NOT be respected?

Do you sometimes check peoples homework wrong when they get it right?

Please don't try partially quoting me to misrepresent what I wrote.

You wrote:
Cheney is resented not because anything illegal happened, but because he is rich and powerful and people resent that and wish that Civil Rights could be deleted for those like him.

I disagree, which is why I wrote "NO". People don't want his rights deleted, they want to be sure their rights are respected. Cheney's administration has been instrumental in diluting the rights of the average person.

Is that clear now?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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1 - I agree that the SS is not the police. That's weak, but what's the point of arguing with GM on it.

Indeed.

***Role

Secret Service Special Agents (foreground) protect the President of the United States.
Secret Service countersniper team
Secret Service White House policeThe Secret Service has primary jurisdiction over the prevention of counterfeiting of U.S. currency and U.S. treasury bonds and notes, and protection of the President, Vice President, their immediate families, other high ranking government officials, past presidents and their spouses, certain candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, and visiting foreign heads of state and government (all called "protectees"). It also investigates a wide variety of financial fraud crimes and identity theft and provides forensics assistance for some local crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service

Well, that settles it, the SS is NOT the police.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ViperPilot 0]

Just another thought...this happens ALL THE TIME. I have a friend who peppered his buddy in the face last month hunting quail. He feels terrible about it obviously, but the other dude was a complete idiot and went into the bushes w/o telling my buddy...of course the bird my friend went for flew right across that bush...bam. Cheney did make a mistake of swinging quickly w/ the line and just firing, but unfortunately that's a mistake that's made by hundreds of hunters. As long as everyone in the group ensures everyone else knows their position, the risk goes down a ton. This lawyer guy didn't tell Cheney where he was, so when Cheney fired, he didn't expect the guy to be there. This scenario has happened a million times...everyone should just drop this ridiculous crap.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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1 - I agree that the SS is not the police. That's weak, but what's the point of arguing with GM on it.

Indeed.

***Role

Secret Service Special Agents (foreground) protect the President of the United States.
Secret Service countersniper team
Secret Service White House policeThe Secret Service has primary jurisdiction over the prevention of counterfeiting of U.S. currency and U.S. treasury bonds and notes, and protection of the President, Vice President, their immediate families, other high ranking government officials, past presidents and their spouses, certain candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, and visiting foreign heads of state and government (all called "protectees"). It also investigates a wide variety of financial fraud crimes and identity theft and provides forensics assistance for some local crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service

Well, that settles it, the SS is NOT the police.

Define Police.

[rehmwa 2]

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Is that clear now?

I suspect there are those that really would like to see the 'privileged' have fewer rights than the 'regular' guy. Here's why>

Since all these "other people" you talk about that simpley want their rights respected aren't the subject of this particular altercation, then "THEIR" rights aren't the ones in question at all - Joe Normal in New Jersey isn't in the spotlight, so his rights aren't the issue. It's not about their rights, it's about Cheney's rights. So the only conclusion to draw is they are resenting his treatment regardless of whether it's legal or not.

It's a complete digression to say it's about Joe Normal's rights. Joe Normal didn't fire the gun and has NOTHING to do with this case. So if you make it about Joe Normal's rights, then the only reason would be resentment.

So your "NO" is incorrect. I suspect the rest of your answer is just fine.

Is that clear now? They say that only 3 or 4 repetitions is necessary for those with above average intelligence.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

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Just another thought...this happens ALL THE TIME. I have a friend who peppered his buddy in the face last month hunting quail. He feels terrible about it obviously, but the other dude was a complete idiot and went into the bushes w/o telling my buddy...of course the bird my friend went for flew right across that bush...bam. Cheney did make a mistake of swinging quickly w/ the line and just firing, but unfortunately that's a mistake that's made by hundreds of hunters. As long as everyone in the group ensures everyone else knows their position, the risk goes down a ton. This lawyer guy didn't tell Cheney where he was, so when Cheney fired, he didn't expect the guy to be there. This scenario has happened a million times...everyone should just drop this ridiculous crap.

Well, that's OK then, isn't it. Happens all the time. No problem.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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Is that clear now?

I suspect there are those that really would like to see the 'privileged' have fewer rights than the 'regular' guy. Here's why>

Since all these "other people" you talk about that simpley want their rights respected aren't the subject of this particular altercation, then "THEIR" rights aren't the ones in question at all - Joe Normal in New Jersey isn't in the spotlight, so his rights aren't the issue. It's not about their rights, it's about Cheney's rights. So the only conclusion to draw is they are resenting his treatment regardless of whether it's legal or not.

It's a complete digression to say it's about Joe Normal's rights. Joe Normal didn't fire the gun and has NOTHING to do with this case. So if you make it about Joe Normal's rights, then the only reason would be resentment.

So your "NO" is incorrect. I suspect the rest of your answer is just fine.

Is that clear now? They say that only 3 or 4 repetitions is necessary for those with above average intelligence.

What evidence do you have that suggests anyone wants Cheney to lose his civil rights? I have lots of evidence that people in general wish to retain theirs against the depredations of this administration.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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2 - I don't think the theory of him having a few drinks so he used (every legal means) to delay an interview is a strawman. I think it rather likely.

Are you saying that it's okay to go out hunting after a few drinks? How many?

Why are you advocating drinking and hunting? I disagree with your position. Drinking and hunting is a bad idea. If you think that's a good idea, then I have to rethink all the stuff I've agreed with you in the past.

{seriously, is that REALLY what you took from that post? or are you just being obtuse to make a point later on? the point is, delaying the interview because of having a beer at lunch or while hunting is very likely advised for anyone (priveleged or not) smart enough to get counsel before notifying the police - because drinking and hunting is wrong. Why do you think Teddy hid after killing that girl? Same scenario. Only difference here is Dicky boy was surrounded by SS and doctors, etc. Teddy was alone. So it's less likely Dicky was drunk because no matter how loyal your staff is, there were too many to really think any kind of coverup would work. But I don't think asking the question of did he drink, how much, and when, is out of line/strawman.)

My post was completely in support of yours really.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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2 - I don't think the theory of him having a few drinks so he used (every legal means) to delay an interview is a strawman. I think it rather likely.

Are you saying that it's okay to go out hunting after a few drinks? How many?

Why are you advocating drinking and hunting? I disagree with your position. Drinking and hunting is a bad idea. If you think that's a good idea, then I have to rethink all the stuff I've agreed with you in the past.

{seriously, is that REALLY what you took from that post? or are you just being obtuse to make a point later on? the point is, delaying the interview because of having a beer at lunch or while hunting is very likely advised for anyone (priveleged or not) smart enough to get counsel before notifying the police - because drinking and hunting is wrong. Why do you think Teddy hid after killing that girl? Same scenario. Only difference here is Dicky boy was surrounded by SS and doctors, etc. Teddy was alone. So it's less likely Dicky was drunk because no matter how loyal your staff is, there were too many to really think any kind of coverup would work. But I don't think asking the question of did he drink, how much, and when, is out of line/strawman.)

My post was completely in support of yours really.

WOW, talk about thread drift. Where did anyone get the idea that Cheney was drinking? Only place I've seen that is on a few wacko left-wing websites and I mentioned it just to get the lefties stirred up.

[rushmc 23]

Looking on those websites did you see the posts suggesting that shooting his friend was planned?



I love these guys!!! This is more fun than watching 24!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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What evidence do you have that suggests anyone wants Cheney to lose his civil rights? I have lots of evidence that people in general wish to retain theirs against the depredations of this administration.

I understand now. You're off on a non-pertinent tangent. I'll try to join in.

1 - I agree that there are people that worry about their rights (some justified, some are just nuts). It has nothing to do with this case. I wish them the best and support their efforts in most cases.

2 - If you don't think there are a group of people that would love to see Cheney destroyed REGARDLESS of the facts, then you haven't paid much attention, have you, even here. So THIS CASE, means that due process is required for those individuals involved, specifically to the aspects of THIS CASE only, regardless of past actions, political position of the individuals, stock portfolio, or general content or discontent of the populace at large, also not to be distracted by some fake intellectual discussion about how this relates to a bunch of other self involved weirdos somewhere.

scenario - John K has a couple beers with lunch. A couple hours later, he accidentally flies his model airplane into some guy at the park who stepped into his zone.

John happens to be flying his plane with a doctor friend and a lawyer friend (he hangs out with lots of professional types). The doctor helps out the hurt guy, John is really feeling bad. They get the guy to the hospital. The lawyer friend advises John to let him call the cops and report the accident and to go home and rest. The cops say thanks for the info, collect personal information, find out which hospital the stranger is in and tells the lawyer to have to have John stick around. The lawyer then notes it was traumatic and he wants to set an appointment so John can voluntarily give a statement later tomorrow morning (about 20 hours later). Cop says that's reasonable for an accident and makes the appointment.

What does John do?

1 - Relax slightly, his lawyer took care of the details and he's really too stressed to deal with making a statement for an accident report.

2 -Chews out his lawyer friend for violating the civil rights of 'NORMAL' people everwhere by not insisting the cop comes right over, right now and giving John the breatalyzer test he so desparately wants to provide.

I know you'd pick #2. Good for you.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Looking on those websites did you see the posts suggesting that shooting his friend was planned?



I love these guys!!! This is more fun than watching 24!!

They also say this is a warning to Scooter Libby that be better not talk.

[rehmwa 2]

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Where did anyone get the idea that Cheney was drinking?

Only in Cheney's statement that he had "a beer" at lunch. But he could have been lying just to disredit the vice president.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

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Where did anyone get the idea that Cheney was drinking?

Only in Cheney's statement that he had "a beer" at lunch. But he could have been lying just to disredit the vice president.....

He is a sneaky one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[IanHarrop 43]

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Looking on those websites did you see the posts suggesting that shooting his friend was planned?



I love these guys!!! This is more fun than watching 24!!

It was planned (or at least on purpose) according to Jay Leno
"I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wiretapping illegal?'" --Jay Leno

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[kallend 2,150]

So you don't have any evidence. OK, why not just say so instead of writing a long boring essay?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.