peacefuljeffrey 0 #51 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuotePoverty always breeds violence and corruption. I tend to think violence and corruption breed poverty first. Then maybe the poverty reinforces the violence. Thats about all the insight that I have. Of course I have been drinking. So let me know if this makes any sense. If poverty always breeds violence and corruption, how do we explain rich people who murder and steal? Kenneth Lay -- was he POOR before he embezzled billions? Was O.J. Simpson POOR before he cut the throats of two innocent people? I mean, get real. If people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, not an issue of whether they resent being poor and have had enough of it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #52 February 8, 2006 QuoteIf poverty always breeds violence and corruption, how do we explain rich people who murder and steal? Kenneth Lay -- was he POOR before he embezzled billions? Was O.J. Simpson POOR before he cut the throats of two innocent people? I mean, get real. If people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, not an issue of whether they resent being poor and have had enough of it. Maybe I drank too much too post. OH wait you were agreeing with me, i think. Err, okay, better go lay down before i read into this too much. Wow rough day at work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #53 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotePoverty always breeds violence and corruption. I tend to think violence and corruption breed poverty first. Then maybe the poverty reinforces the violence. Thats about all the insight that I have. Of course I have been drinking. So let me know if this makes any sense. If poverty always breeds violence and corruption, how do we explain rich people who murder and steal? Kenneth Lay -- was he POOR before he embezzled billions? Was O.J. Simpson POOR before he cut the throats of two innocent people? I mean, get real. If people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, not an issue of whether they resent being poor and have had enough of it. - It is a fact that crime against others, whether fatal or not, is most likely to be caused by someone from a lower economical class7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #54 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis is good... Moscow museum to exhibit Mohammed cartoons MOSCOW, Feb. 7 (UPI) -- A Moscow museum has announced it will exhibit the entire series of cartoons of Mohammed that have caused riots throughout the Islamic world. Yury Samodurov, director of the Sakharov Museum and Public Center, said on Russian television that the center was ready to organize a public exhibition of the cartoons satirizing the founder of Islam that originally were published in a Danish newspaper, Pravda.ru reported Monday. And an update from our news correspondents in Russia: The Sakharov Museum and Public Center was leveled today by four coordinated suicide bomb blasts which destroyed the building, killed 175 people and maimed 214 others, and severely damaged numerous nearby buildings, as well as vehicles. Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the attack, which was directed at the museum for having the audacity to exercise freedom and criticize the homicidal predisposition of muslims around the world. - I think that sums it up.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #55 February 8, 2006 QuoteIf poverty always breeds violence and corruption, how do we explain rich people who murder and steal? ... I mean, get real. If people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, not an issue of whether they resent being poor and have had enough of it. - QuoteIt is a fact that crime against others, whether fatal or not, is most likely to be caused by someone from a lower economical class Seems like a chicken-or-the-egg issue. Are they criminals before they end up poor? Or are they poor before they turn criminal? When you consider that there are plenty of well-to-do criminals who still murder or steal; and when you consider that there are plenty of impoverished people who still toil for a meager existence and lead noble and virtuous lives; it can make you wonder why people claim axiomatically that poverty causes crime. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #56 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf poverty always breeds violence and corruption, how do we explain rich people who murder and steal? ... I mean, get real. If people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, not an issue of whether they resent being poor and have had enough of it. - QuoteIt is a fact that crime against others, whether fatal or not, is most likely to be caused by someone from a lower economical class Seems like a chicken-or-the-egg issue. Are they criminals before they end up poor? Or are they poor before they turn criminal? When you consider that there are plenty of well-to-do criminals who still murder or steal; and when you consider that there are plenty of impoverished people who still toil for a meager existence and lead noble and virtuous lives; it can make you wonder why people claim axiomatically that poverty causes crime. - http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/301/301lect07.htm "For example, when unemployment goes up 1%, there's a 4% increase in homicides, a 6% increase in robberies, a 2% increase in burglaries, and measurable effects on rape and other crimes." Quoteeems like a chicken-or-the-egg issue. Are they criminals before they end up poor? Or are they poor before they turn criminal? If they were criminal before poverty occured, these statistics would stay the same. But they dont. Increase in poverty caused an increase in crime. QuoteIf people are maladjusted, they will entitle themselves to power and wealth that they do not deserve. It's an issue of their mental state and their character and their moral sense, And so this is a good excuse?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #57 February 8, 2006 Hell NO it's not a good excuse. People are using poverty as an excuse for their behavior, and I condemn it. Saying that poverty causes crime is half way toward saying that it excuses crime -- because the solution is always offered as, "If you want to stop crime, get rid of poverty." Well, yeah, we all want to get rid of poverty because none of us actually wants others to suffer its discomfort. But I'll be damned if I accept the notion that we should not be able to address crime by law enforcement, and the expectation that people should live within the bounds of the law. Otherwise, it's as though criminals are extorting us to make sure that they are economically taken-care-of. Sorry, criminals, you gotta fuckin' struggle and work for what you want just like the rest of us. In other words, we should not have to accept the notion that crime is going to accompany poverty unless we are to accept the notion that poverty strips people of their humanity, their souls, their morality, and their compassion for other people. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #58 February 8, 2006 Not always PJ, but in general poverty does breed violence and crime. Where would you rather take a stroll at 10pm on any given night, in Beverly Hills or Compton. There are also aholes in this World. Lay would rob is mom blind and murderers, well every socioeconomic class has them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #59 February 8, 2006 QuoteNot always PJ, but in general poverty does breed violence and crime. Where would you rather take a stroll at 10pm on any given night, in Beverly Hills or Compton. There are also aholes in this World. Lay would rob is mom blind and murderers, well every socioeconomic class has them. That's exactly my point. I don't think that the difference between Beverly Hills and Compton is explained by, "Oh, Compton's people are poor, and that made them criminals." Maybe crime and criminals are a disease that make a place be poor. Maybe the crime comes first. We already see that plenty of poor folk don't commit crime, and plenty of rich folk do. That flies in the face of the "poverty causes crime" theory. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #60 February 8, 2006 QuoteThe whole discussion on why people decide to kill them selves for a cause they believe in i don't care if they kill themselves. its the part where they murder dozens of others while doing so which is the problem. QuoteWow so embarrassment in front of your coworkers is the same as having your children murdered, your house destroyed and so on. so where do you draw the line ? who decide how bad of a life is an acceptable reason to blow up a bus ? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #61 February 8, 2006 Quotewho decide how bad of a life is an acceptable reason to blow up a bus? It's not acceptable behavior, at least amongst civilized societies. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #62 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuotewho decide how bad of a life is an acceptable reason to blow up a bus? It's not acceptable behavior, at least amongst civilized societies. Buuuuut, it's very clear that it's not acceptable to condemn muslims for turning to it whenever they want something... ...even though they are the foremost identifiable group using bombings and violence to attain their political goals in the world today. No one dares exclaim that "the emperor has no clothes" because it's not politically correct to "profile." --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #63 February 8, 2006 QuoteI think your right. It doesn’t show Muslims in a great light at all. And personally I wouldn’t care what is printed as a Joke or whatever. As I said before in another thread IMHO the best reaction would have been no reaction at all. Who cares what anyone thinks or says about your beliefs when it comes down to it is your beliefs, and if your fait is strong you should not worry about small things that don’t even matter. I think it is absolutely stupid to show such a violent reaction to just a fucking drawing. The only thing I tell my self is that maybe it is because of the times, and Muslims feel the whole world is against them. I also think that most Muslims feel that their beliefs are not taken seriously. There is also a feeling that no is there to fight for them. Most Islamic countries have the worst governments you can imagine. That is also another reason why so many find leadership elsewhere. But all that aside it is still the worst possible reaction you can have. They are just drawings. We Muslims need to pick our fights and a drawing is defiantly not a fight I would have picked. Darius, thanks for your open and frank repsonse. Your response got me thinking. Where is all the violence happening? What countries is that violence happening in? Could it be that the violence has more to do with local cultures then religion? I think it has become increasingly easy to blame the religion, while it may not be the religion at all. We have previously established that certain cultures are more prone to violence than others. Looks like many muslims around the world have been able to either shrug it off, or protest peacefully. So, I think I will adjust my statement accordingly. I think all this has shown that many middle eastern cultures are prone to violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #64 February 8, 2006 QuoteI think all this has shown that many middle eastern cultures are prone to violence. not more or less than any other culture in the world at some point in history. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #65 February 8, 2006 QuoteLooks like many muslims around the world have been able to either shrug it off, or protest peacefully. There are well in excess of 1 billion Muslims worldwide. I think we can safely say that as far as we know very nearly all of them have shrugged it off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #66 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote The Palestinian method is the only method they have. They target civilians as the Israeli government and military is very good at protecting them selves. I bet if they were capable of hitting the military they would. man my boss pissed me off today and embarresed me in a meeting. Since I can't get back at him officially, I'm gonna go kill his children. With a bomb. Its the only method I have. That ok with you darius? I'm done with this thread. too many lies and bs just pisses me off. Wow so embarrassment in front of your coworkers is the same as having your children murdered, your house destroyed and so on. You must really love your job. And if you see BS or any misinformation point them out you will do all of us good, but then again you love your work so much I am sure your too busy LOL Darius please go join the Jihad will ya? I mean sending your money and making excuses simply isn't enough!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #67 February 8, 2006 "There are well in excess of 1 billion Muslims worldwide. I think we can safely say that as far as we know very nearly all of them have shrugged it off." I think a lot of people need to bear this in mind right now.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #68 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote The Palestinian method is the only method they have. They target civilians as the Israeli government and military is very good at protecting them selves. I bet if they were capable of hitting the military they would. man my boss pissed me off today and embarresed me in a meeting. Since I can't get back at him officially, I'm gonna go kill his children. With a bomb. Its the only method I have. That ok with you darius? I'm done with this thread. too many lies and bs just pisses me off. Wow so embarrassment in front of your coworkers is the same as having your children murdered, your house destroyed and so on. You must really love your job. And if you see BS or any misinformation point them out you will do all of us good, but then again you love your work so much I am sure your too busy LOL I was sickened and horrified that a muslim would kill a fellow muslim because they commited the haneous crime of feeding an "infidel" it still haunts me to this day. I have been the recipient of both muslim charity and muslim jihad so don't lecture me on this one ok? please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwtom 0 #69 February 8, 2006 Quote I acutely think the Nazis are a great comparison to the Israelis. They both treated people of different fait as 2nd class citizens. They both killed indiscriminately the one of different fait. They both have more power and guns then the people they treat as 2nd class citizens. They also stole there homes You can’t see the difference? You apparently have not the first idea what a systematically planned and executed genocide of 6 Mio people means. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #70 February 8, 2006 Quotenot more or less than any other culture in the world at some point in history. very true, I guess I should have clarified that I was speaking of current situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #71 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote The Palestinian method is the only method they have. They target civilians as the Israeli government and military is very good at protecting them selves. I bet if they were capable of hitting the military they would. man my boss pissed me off today and embarresed me in a meeting. Since I can't get back at him officially, I'm gonna go kill his children. With a bomb. Its the only method I have. That ok with you darius? I'm done with this thread. too many lies and bs just pisses me off. Wow so embarrassment in front of your coworkers is the same as having your children murdered, your house destroyed and so on. You must really love your job. And if you see BS or any misinformation point them out you will do all of us good, but then again you love your work so much I am sure your too busy LOL Darius please go join the Jihad will ya? I mean sending your money and making excuses simply isn't enough!!! As soon as you join some redneck militant groupI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #72 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuote I acutely think the Nazis are a great comparison to the Israelis. They both treated people of different fait as 2nd class citizens. They both killed indiscriminately the one of different fait. They both have more power and guns then the people they treat as 2nd class citizens. They also stole there homes You can’t see the difference? You apparently have not the first idea what a systematically planned and executed genocide of 6 Mio people means. Cheers, T I mentioned before that I was not comparing the crimes in magnitude but as in some of the methods used. But I see no one can say any of my comparisons are wrong they just call me anti-Semitic and try to change the focus and make me look like a raciest. WhateverI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #73 February 8, 2006 QuoteBut I see no one can say any of my comparisons are wrong i think that most here did exactly that, including myself... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #74 February 8, 2006 I have attached cartoon evidence of Mohammed meeting with a certain well-known American figure: edited to add second one: an incident not mentioned in the Koran: Camel Trouble. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #75 February 15, 2006 Mmm... I just had a raspberry Rose of the Prophet Mohammad for breakfast."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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crwtom 0 #69 February 8, 2006 Quote I acutely think the Nazis are a great comparison to the Israelis. They both treated people of different fait as 2nd class citizens. They both killed indiscriminately the one of different fait. They both have more power and guns then the people they treat as 2nd class citizens. They also stole there homes You can’t see the difference? You apparently have not the first idea what a systematically planned and executed genocide of 6 Mio people means. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #70 February 8, 2006 Quotenot more or less than any other culture in the world at some point in history. very true, I guess I should have clarified that I was speaking of current situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #71 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote The Palestinian method is the only method they have. They target civilians as the Israeli government and military is very good at protecting them selves. I bet if they were capable of hitting the military they would. man my boss pissed me off today and embarresed me in a meeting. Since I can't get back at him officially, I'm gonna go kill his children. With a bomb. Its the only method I have. That ok with you darius? I'm done with this thread. too many lies and bs just pisses me off. Wow so embarrassment in front of your coworkers is the same as having your children murdered, your house destroyed and so on. You must really love your job. And if you see BS or any misinformation point them out you will do all of us good, but then again you love your work so much I am sure your too busy LOL Darius please go join the Jihad will ya? I mean sending your money and making excuses simply isn't enough!!! As soon as you join some redneck militant groupI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #72 February 8, 2006 QuoteQuote I acutely think the Nazis are a great comparison to the Israelis. They both treated people of different fait as 2nd class citizens. They both killed indiscriminately the one of different fait. They both have more power and guns then the people they treat as 2nd class citizens. They also stole there homes You can’t see the difference? You apparently have not the first idea what a systematically planned and executed genocide of 6 Mio people means. Cheers, T I mentioned before that I was not comparing the crimes in magnitude but as in some of the methods used. But I see no one can say any of my comparisons are wrong they just call me anti-Semitic and try to change the focus and make me look like a raciest. WhateverI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #73 February 8, 2006 QuoteBut I see no one can say any of my comparisons are wrong i think that most here did exactly that, including myself... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #74 February 8, 2006 I have attached cartoon evidence of Mohammed meeting with a certain well-known American figure: edited to add second one: an incident not mentioned in the Koran: Camel Trouble. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #75 February 15, 2006 Mmm... I just had a raspberry Rose of the Prophet Mohammad for breakfast."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
