peacefuljeffrey 0 #1 February 3, 2006 Of course, it happened in the gun-free utopia of Massachusetts. So naturally, the only person with a gun was the attacker, and everyone is conditioned to run and hide, but fuck no, not to fight back. The CNN.com story QuoteAfter finishing the drink and ordering a second one, Philip (the bartender) said, the man moved to the back of the bar, watching a game of pool briefly before taking out a hatchet -- a small ax the size of a hammer, Phillip said. "He started swinging the hatchet on top of this customer's head," he said. The bartender said he called 911, trying to keep the phone from view, and urged patrons out the door. [Oooh, yeah, dial a fucking phone -- that'll save the guy who's in imminent danger of being dismembered!] Meanwhile, the attacker struck a second patron with the hatchet, pulled out a gun and shot the first victim in the face and the second twice in the head, Phillip said. A third person also was shot in the abdomen. [Where the FUCK was anybody with a goddamned set of balls, who might have come at the guy swinging a pool cue?! Okay, sure, I wasn't there, but it seems like everyone just fuckin' split, even though it seems like there was probably a chance to do something before the gun got taken out.] Phillip said he came face to face with the attacker at the bar door, and the man pointed a gun at his face and pulled the trigger but nothing happened. [Is this what it's come down to?: People are willing to just wait for the fuckin' hammer to drop?! What a fuckin' coward! ] "I thought I was done," he said. "It was as if I was watching a television, and somebody put it on mute, and I heard nothing." [You shoulda been "done," you fucking sissy. You waited for this guy to deal you your death, and only for some fuckup with the gun did you not get what you had coming. Maybe you'll find in yourself some reconstituted will to live after this -- and maybe learn some techniques for actually surviving...] Anyway, I think I am more sickened (can you tell?) by the attitudes of these people than I am about the maniac who attacked them. "Help! Help! Police! Come save us! WE can't possibly fight for our OWN lives!" Can you just fucking imagine seeing a guy standing over someone with a hatchet, and instead of rushing over to clobber the guy using anything that came to hand, you picked up a motherfucking TELEPHONE and started calling the police?! How the fuck could you face yourself after that, much less the guy you left to the maniac? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #2 February 3, 2006 Amen to that. If I'd been standing close to the attack I'd have taken any opportunity to clobber "Hatchet-Boy" if only to stop him before he decided to go for me! Too bad you're preachin' to the choir here PJ. Remember that skydivers have developed an ability to act DECISIVELY in high stress situations! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #3 February 3, 2006 This whole incident is just wrong. How could that fellow hate people so much that he'd never even met? Sick. Also sickening was the reaction of the crowd. They should have kicked his ass before he pulled out the gun. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #4 February 3, 2006 I'm just curious - the last time you came face to face with a nut with a hatchet and gun, and you were unarmed, did you rush over and decide to engage him, unarmed? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #5 February 3, 2006 It appears as though the man had already started striking a second victim before pulling out a gun. Is your statement an admission of your cowardness and willingness to run away? That's how I take it. Someone should have engaged. " No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his well-being, to risk his body, to risk his life, in a great cause." -Theodore Roosevelt That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #6 February 3, 2006 QuoteIt appears as though the man had already started striking a second victim before pulling out a gun. Is your statement an admission of your cowardness and willingness to run away? That's how I take it. Someone should have engaged. " No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his well-being, to risk his body, to risk his life, in a great cause." -Theodore Roosevelt I don;t know what i would have done, much as i'm sure no one would unless they were in that situation. To have a go at people who were inthat situation, seems both pointless and unjustifiably harsh to me. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #7 February 3, 2006 Oh for fuck's sake people it was a gay bar. Full of gay men. All this criticism that none of them were butch enough to tackle a guy with a gun and a knife is quite, quite ridiculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 February 3, 2006 Quote I don;t know what i would have done, much as i'm sure no one would unless they were in that situation. To have a go at people who were inthat situation, seems both pointless and unjustifiably harsh to me. Armchair valor. Gotta love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #9 February 3, 2006 QuoteOh for fuck's sake people it was a gay bar. Full of gay men. All this criticism that none of them were butch enough to tackle a guy with a gun and a knife is quite, quite ridiculous. That comment is completely off base, it was a gay bar which would probably mean that there were lesbians there to handle the rough stuff Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altichick 1 #10 February 3, 2006 Depends what source you read "The attacker shoved one of the men to the ground, then pulled a hatchet from his sweatshirt and began swinging it at the man's head, said the bartender, who asked to be identified only by his first name, Phillip, because of concerns about his own safety while the gunman is at large. The second pool player intervened, swinging at the assailant with his pool cue, but the attacker fended him off, the bartender said. Several other patrons tried to stop him, and he was knocked off his feet, sending the hatchet flying, Phillip said. The attacker then pulled out the handgun and shot one man, according to the bartender. He fired another bullet into the chest of a patron who was leaving the bathroom." ----------------------------------------------------------- So yes the people near the attack tried to stop this nutter... the bartender was behind a bar some distance away... calling the cops was probably a smart thing to do given where he was stood at the time... Personally I'm not sure that adding another gun(s) into a busy, dark bar would have reduced the injuries to innocent people. But I don't know much about guns (I leave that up to you crazy Yanks!) Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #11 February 3, 2006 the first man attacked was heard to say sure i'll let you split me in two big boy!!!...but I don't hink thats what he wanted...( sick humor ) what they needed is a mean looking Lesbian bouncer!!! the attacker wouldn't have dared try entering the bar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #12 February 3, 2006 Well, personally, there's no way in hell that I'd challenge a guy with a gun if I was only armed with a pool cue and had a way to avoid the confrontation. Confronting someone like that just increases the odds you're going to end up dead. If I had a gun, might be different. If people say "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" why the heck would someone want to bring a pool cue to a gun fight?! Chances are you'd break the cue before you broke his head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 February 3, 2006 QuoteI'm just curious - the last time you came face to face with a nut with a hatchet and gun, and you were unarmed, did you rush over and decide to engage him, unarmed? If someone started hacking up your friends at the DZ, would your reaction be to run away, rather than to try and stop the attack and save your friends? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 February 3, 2006 QuoteI'm not sure that adding another gun(s) into a busy, dark bar would have reduced the injuries... That depends upon whether you want a lot of injured innocent people, or just one injured perpetrator. Your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 February 3, 2006 Quotethere's no way in hell that I'd challenge a guy with a gun if I was only armed with a pool cue... What if he was pointing the gun at a friend, and you were behind him with a pool cue, a billiard ball, a beer bottle, or a bar stool and could whack him by surprise? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #16 February 3, 2006 If it was my friend/family/child, I'd probably do whatever I could with whatever I had. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #17 February 3, 2006 Until anybody is confronted with this situation, there is simply no telling what a person would do. Untrained people typically put self-preservation above all, unless it is to defend a VERY loved one. Several years ago, some dude started shooting up the White House. Only one person from the crowd, who were shown on video fleeing in droves, went in to tackle the shooter. His reason? He figured when the shooter reloaded he was going to kill him and his child, so better act now. I'd like to think I'd act up in that situation. But I'm man enough to admit that if I saw someone pulling a gun on a crowd in the bar, I'd most likely first try to seek cover (immediately protect my precious ass) until such time as I can figure out the safest way to get the hell outta there (thus protecting my precious ass). Once I determine that only by audacity will I save my precious ass, only then would I likely seek to neutralize the threat. But if my wife or kid is involved, yeah, I'd likely act more quickly so that they can get out safely. Better me than them. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #18 February 3, 2006 dude. You have been ON FIRE this week. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altichick 1 #19 February 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not sure that adding another gun(s) into a busy, dark bar would have reduced the injuries to innocent people... (what I said in my first post) That depends upon whether you want a lot of injured innocent people, or just one injured perpetrator. Your choice. I'm not sure what you mean - i'm not sure that in this case it would be an 'either' / 'or' choice. Let me explain what I meant... they just showed the bar on a news programme and it was a small, dark bar... I'm just saying that I'm not sure anyone would have / should have tried to use a gun against this guy in such small and (acording to the news report) busy place. In a noisey crowded bar....by the time you realised there was a disturbance, realised it involved a weapon, then realised it was a potentially lethal weapon (and remember people are already close enough to this guy to be trying to stop him and quite probably a lot of other people trying to get the hell out of there)... could you safely use a gun to stop his attack? Isn't two people shooting guns in a busy bar potentially worse than one?? At least you know which way to run if it's just one!! Like I said in my earlier post - I know very little about guns but I can't imagine a dark or crowded place is a good place for an armed have-a-go-hero to use for his (or her) target practice! Would you feel worse if you accidently shot a innocent bystander or worse for not trying to shot the bad guy?? When I say 'you' I don't mean you personally - I mean any person who could have been there! Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #20 February 3, 2006 Honestly, what would you think it would be better, having someone who is trying to harming stopped before doing so, or after?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #21 February 3, 2006 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- why do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps it has something to do with guns being banned in postal facilities. Nothing like feeling like killing people, and making sure to do it in a place where your victims aren't likely to have what they need to shoot back. In the thread (quoted above) about the postal worker who killed 7 people with a gun earlier in the week, you didn't bitch at all about the 40 other people in the post office and you didn't ask why none of them had disarmed her, did you? You argued that if they had been armed too, it may have been prevented, didn't you? This reeks of hypocrisy and bullshitOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #22 February 3, 2006 QuoteThis reeks of hypocrisy and bullshit It's a familiar smell. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 February 3, 2006 QuoteI can't imagine a dark or crowded place is a good place for an armed have-a-go-hero to use for his (or her) target practice! Suit yourself. If you are the one being beaten with an axe, feel free to shout to your rescuers with your last dying breathe that you do not want them to shoot your attacker. As for me, I'll be gasping: "Shoot the mutherfucker!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #24 February 3, 2006 QuoteI'm just curious - the last time you came face to face with a nut with a hatchet and gun, and you were unarmed, did you rush over and decide to engage him, unarmed? I'm just curious -- how would a person swinging a 5-foot-long cue stick at (at a guy who at the time had a hatchet the size of a hammer) qualify as "unarmed"? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #25 February 3, 2006 QuotePersonally I'm not sure that adding another gun(s) into a busy, dark bar would have reduced the injuries to innocent people. But I don't know much about guns (I leave that up to you crazy Yanks!) Do we know that the bar was "busy, dark"? If the attacker had such an easy time selecting and shooting victims, why would it be difficult for someone else with a gun to identify and shoot him? It seems pretty clear that anyone around knew exactly who the aggressor was... This seems like the argument that a gun won't do you any good for defense, because a criminal attacker will just "take it from you and use your own gun against you." Begs the question, "If it's so friggin' easy to take a gun away from someone, why wouldn't I be able to just snatch it right back?" --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
