smiles 0 #1 February 1, 2006 http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=12951c1c-1159-431d-8d9e-582923f6474c&k=61121 The man accused of being Canada's worst serial killer, Robert Pickton-56 is facing first-degree murder charges in the disappearance of 27 women, mostly sex-trade workers, from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. January 30, 2006 not-guilty pleas were entered on the 27 charges in B.C. Supreme Court. The B.C. government has put a mortgage worth $10 million on accused serial killer Robert Pickton's notorious pig farm to cover his publicly funded defence. It's astonishing that it has taken years to even begin the trial on crimes that began in the 1980s when prostitutes began to disappear off the streets of Vancouver. Like in the Green River murder case in Seattle, Vancouver law enforcement took its time even admitting that a serial killer was operating. Finally in 2002, police went to the Pickton farm and began to dig up the victims buried there. The most expensive murder investigation in Canadian history (over $70 million.) Police and forensic investigators spent more than 18 months sifting through soil at Pickton's - 17 acre pig farm near Port Coquitlam, Vancouver B.C. finding human remains. Police brought in heavy excavation equipment to sift through the soil, including two 50-foot flat conveyer belts and two dump trucks. The investigation team was made up of 91 people: 30 to 40 police and 52 forensic and archeological experts. Several archeological students were hired to help go through the dirt as it passes by on the conveyer belts and identify remains. Other forensic experts focused on reconstructing the crime scene by looking at how the bones were scattered around the farm. Investigators found 3,000 pieces of evidence in the top levels of the dirt on the Pickton farm. http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/robert_pickton/1.html A song recorded as a tribute to women missing from Vancouver's downtown east side titled: "The Streets Where You Live" included top Canadian musicians such as Tragically Hip (Gord Downie,) Barenaked Ladies (Steven Page,) Blue Rodeo's (Jim Cuddy,) Bif Naked, Colin James and David Usher. All of the song's royalties go to the non-profit Buried Heart Society who runs a treatment centre for female drug addicts. SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpusPilotus 0 #2 February 1, 2006 If you jump at Pacific Skydivers in Pitt Meadows, you can see the farm. The Cessna always takes off using runway 26R, so If you jump out of the Cessna, you'll fly right over the farm about 10 seconds after take off._________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 February 2, 2006 A pig farm with a mass murderer... Well, that's certainly an off-limits area for an "out" landing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #4 February 2, 2006 A fascinating detail about this case: All of the victims were prostitutes. The photographs that have been circulating of the victims are all their mugshots from when they'd been arrested at various times. So whenever you see a photo of one of the victims it's a demeaning, humiliating, disheveled police photograph. It makes them look horrible, guilty, broken-down, and even unworthy of pity. So a bunch of artists got together to draw portraits of all the victims based on the mugshots, but drawing smiles on their faces, pretty makeup, clean clothes, and healthy looks in their eyes. A few weeks ago the Vancouver Sun ran a several-page gallery of all 27 mugshots next to the 27 portraits. It really turns the whole appearance of this situation around. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #5 February 2, 2006 Remember the Homolka case where the woman helped her husband drug, rape, and murder young girls (including the womans sister ) ? She did 12 years and got released. When she was released, she wouldn't tell any of her plans because she didn't want people to bother her. (Like anyone is concerned about her feelings.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #6 February 2, 2006 QuoteIt really turns the whole appearance of this situation around. My understanding is that Robert Willie Pickton regularly picked up prostitutes from East Van. for the bikers parties (Hell's Angels Party House "The Piggy Palace" on the Pig Farm)....of course their pay would be drugs- and the Angel's had their "party girls." Pickton drove a converted bus with deeply tinted windows, "It was Willie's pride and joy." You are right the mug shots are demeaning-- More than 80 percent of the prostitutes were born and raised outside Vancouver. In 1998 they averaged one death per day from drug overdoses, the highest rate in Canadian history. 54 women, vanished between 1983 and 2001, with 85 investigators assigned to the case. Canada's Violent Crime Linkage System did not track missing persons without some evidence of foul play, and task force investigators were empty-handed. In the absence of a corpse or crime scene, even a specific date for most of the disappearances, forensic evidence was nonexistent. Regardless of their drug addiction, these women were "loved ones." SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #7 February 2, 2006 QuoteRemember the Homolka case where the woman helped her husband drug, rape, and murder young girls (including the womans sister ) ? She did 12 years and got released. When she was released, she wouldn't tell any of her plans because she didn't want people to bother her. (Like anyone is concerned about her feelings.) Cases like this scream advocacy for the viewpoint of the death-penalty supporters. In a world where some schmuck bleeding-heart judge/jury/court/justic system can give someone who took part in such heinous crimes a mere 12 years in prison -- and a chance at a life afterward -- the only true justice really would be execution for such a criminal. Sicker than these disgusting murderers is the fact that some people out there consider them to be worthy human lives, people to be loved, understood, protected, championed -- just as much as those who were killed by them (or sometimes more so ). Some people's priorities are ass-backward, and they care for criminals, rather than for their victims. I think that as long as we let people who are soft on such vicious degenerates run things, we will suffer more at their hands than if we took an iron-fisted approach to dealing with them. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #8 February 2, 2006 QuoteIn a world where some schmuck bleeding-heart judge/jury/court/justic system can give someone who took part in such heinous crimes a mere 12 years in prison -- and a chance at a life afterward -- the only true justice really would be execution for such a criminal. IIRC, it was a plea deal w/ Karla to testify against her husband. IIRC further, video tapes came to light which showed Karla to be far more participatory than had originally been discussed (and the deal struck upon). However, the prosecution felt that they'd have a difficult time convicting Paul, the husband, without her testimony, so the deal stood. IMHO, that was one of the worst plea deals ever struck, and to me shows that unless you are VERY clear that the person you're dealing with is a witness or at most a minor player, plea deals just don't work. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #9 February 2, 2006 The guy is serving two life terms. She was actually the murderer in her 15 yo sisters case. She got the tranquilizer from the vet office where she worked. Invited the sister over. Spiked her drink, then held the tranq-soaked cloth over her mouth. The "details" are terrible. Rape, torture, murder (of two other teenage girls also). One was strangled while holding a teddy bear. (All on video, no doubt of it) The sister asphyxiated. Vomiting, but couldn't get it out because of the cloth. She also set up the whole scenario, just before Christmas. According to the video, the sister was a "present" to the guy. She did 12 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #10 February 2, 2006 Like I said, the system is ill. 12 fuckin' measly years for murdering her own sister for depraved sex acts. Great. Let's keep going easy on demented, violent criminals. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #11 February 2, 2006 QuoteIIRC, it was a plea deal w/ Karla to testify against her husband. You're talking sense but no one's listening. Like I've said here before, it's like feeding priceless paintings to a goat. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #12 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteIIRC, it was a plea deal w/ Karla to testify against her husband. You're talking sense but no one's listening. Like I've said here before, it's like feeding priceless paintings to a goat. Your "wisdom" is analagous to a priceless painting?! If only I had known before I ate it and shitted it out! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #13 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteIIRC, it was a plea deal w/ Karla to testify against her husband. You're talking sense but no one's listening. Sense? I listened. I read some articles. The plea deal is so lenient that it is a slap in the face to the victims. That is the part that makes no sense. 12 years ? How about 25/30 for a deal ? How about the prosecutors doing their job ? That makes sense. I don't think that he could have been repeatedly committed murder in the house and her not have some knowledge. That defines complicity. No deal for that. She planned it out. She obtained the tranquilizer. She got the girls to come over. She was in on the torture. It wasn't just him raping the girls (yes, even her sister). She's one dangerous person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #14 February 2, 2006 The interesting aspect, to me, is that until Karla got involved, Paul Bernardo was "only" a rapist...now, granted, escalation occurs often with rapists to murder, but what was the additional factor here? Karla... Once one has read enough about Karla, you really get a good feel for her manipulation, and her willingness to kill. She is now involved with an incarcerated murderer (Jean Paul Gerbet, iirc), who killed his first wife. Yup, Karla's making some really good choices with her life. Read some of the latest interviews/articles on her (especially on her release from prison), and you'll see how easily, and adeptly, she manipulates people; for instance, her moving to Quebec simply because apparently the French Canadian media was a bit more sympathetic to her is something that is telling... The plea deal was known as "The Deal With The Devil," and many, many thousands of people were hurt, offended, and appalled at the deal. Especially once the video tapes came to light, the outrage was enormous. But the deal had been made, and had to be kept. Paul Bernardo recieved life in prison, although I don't know if that means 'life' or something else. I am unfamiliar with Canadian penal sentencing and law. One of the things that this situation points out to me is the absolute lack of understanding and comprehension that women are capable of just as heinous a crime (or series of crimes) as men are. Often, women are percieved as not so bad, or the victim (as in Karla's case...she's been screaming victim for a very long time...and she is NO victim...), or the lesser of two evils. That is, frankly, a global perception of things rather than simply a western/Canadian/American view...and it allows women far more leeway to commit crimes and literally get away with them than men. And that is totally wrong. Narcimund, I don't think that no-one is listening. They may not have picked up on all that I say (often I'm subtle....NOT! LOL), but that's all right. I definitely don't equate it with priceless paintings before swine (isn't that pearls before swine? ). If someone doesn't listen to wisdom from whereever it appears, then it's an issue for them, and not the speaker. Hope you are having a good time in your new native land. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #15 February 2, 2006 QuoteThe interesting aspect, to me, is that until Karla got involved, Paul Bernardo was "only" a rapist...now, granted, escalation occurs often with rapists to murder, but what was the additional factor here? Karla... Once one has read enough about Karla, you really get a good feel for her manipulation, and her willingness to kill. She is now involved with an incarcerated murderer (Jean Paul Gerbet, iirc), who killed his first wife. Yup, Karla's making some really good choices with her life. If only she were a convicted pedophile priest, instead of just a depraved torturer/rapist/murderer... 'cause then we could feel good about putting a lifer up to the task of strangling her in jail... But she's just a torturer/rapist/murderer. We'd just feel too bad about bringing her life to an early end... --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #16 February 2, 2006 QuoteOne of the things that this situation points out to me is the absolute lack of understanding and comprehension that women are capable of just as heinous a crime (or series of crimes) as men are. The oddest time was a few years ago when the governor asked for a review of womens sentencing for murder. Two were released by using PMS as a defense (seriously). "If you were PMSing during the murder, you can be released. Were you?" "Ummm...yes." It is the weird theory that women are competent to be the CEO of a company, but incapable of deciding if murder is a bad idea. I call it the "The Terrible Man Controlled Me" defense. That was Karlas defense. The video told another story, too late though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #17 February 2, 2006 Quote But the deal had been made, and had to be kept. Paul Bernardo recieved life in prison, although I don't know if that means 'life' or something else. I am unfamiliar with Canadian penal sentencing and law. Bernardo has also been named a "Dangerous Offender" which allows the Crown to hold him indefinitely. He will never see the light of day as a free man again.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #18 February 2, 2006 QuoteIt is the weird theory that women are competent to be the CEO of a company, but incapable of deciding if murder is a bad idea. Kinda makes you wonder if a woman should be entrusted with "the Button." --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #19 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt is the weird theory that women are competent to be the CEO of a company, but incapable of deciding if murder is a bad idea. Kinda makes you wonder if a woman should be entrusted with "the Button." - Considering male CEOs and male murderers CVs, I highly doubt a woman would be less qualified to be incharge of "the button" than a man would. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #20 February 2, 2006 QuoteKinda makes you wonder if a woman should be entrusted with "the Button." Kewl , I see you are adding a bit of mysogeny to your repetoire.... be sure to bring that up at the Boogie this weekend and see how far it gets you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #21 February 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteKinda makes you wonder if a woman should be entrusted with "the Button." Kewl , I see you are adding a bit of mysogeny to your repetoire.... be sure to bring that up at the Boogie this weekend and see how far it gets you. creeeeeaaaaaaak... --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
