Man, it must be hard being a Democrat...

[Gravitymaster 0]

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- They lost the presidential election TWICE

Actually not..but anyway at it is not a democracy anymore, you can say what you want!

Nope, they did in fact lose in 2000. It was essentially a dead heat, but with the processes we have in place, Bush won fairly. Had it been on the other foot, the Democrats wouldn't be apologizing for winning. Of course, Nader was one of many factors that got him there that had nothing to do with a better message or ideology.

I wonder how many Democrats would support Gore in 2008, knowing what they do about him now?

[Andy9o8 2]

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- They lost the presidential election TWICE

Actually not..but anyway at it is not a democracy anymore, you can say what you want!

Nope, they did in fact lose in 2000. It was essentially a dead heat, but with the processes we have in place, Bush won fairly.

Well, he won non-violently, with no tanks in the street. Let's leave it at that.

[sundevil777 102]

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- They lost the presidential election TWICE

Actually not..but anyway at it is not a democracy anymore, you can say what you want!

Nope, they did in fact lose in 2000. It was essentially a dead heat, but with the processes we have in place, Bush won fairly.

Well, he won non-violently, with no tanks in the street. Let's leave it at that.

Even the multiple newspapers and such that did their own recount confirmed the result of the florida recount.

The US Supreme Court asked the Florida Supreme Court to explain their decision (that was overturned). The Florida Court chose not to reply.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

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I wonder how many Democrats would support Gore in 2008, knowing what they do about him now?

Is there anything new that is important?

He has a history of losing. No more needs to be said.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Even if what you say is true, it's a cycle. How can you not see that? In a few years you will be eating your words.

No, you're missing my main point:

The Left has been saying, through six years of the Bush administration, that the majority of Americans actually DO, NOW want what the Left is selling -- and somehow despite this clear fact the legislatures and the courts are doing all they can to give the American people the opposite of what they are clamoring for (Leftist policy as law).

So they are saying that when we have a Leftist administration, it's because the country wanted it and voted for it and got it...

...and when we have a Rightist administration, it's in SPITE of the fact that the country wanted a Leftist one.

In fact, according to Democrats, the majority of GUN OWNERS support GUN BANS.

And I'm wrong for thinking they're fucking nuts?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[KidWicked 0]

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Even if what you say is true, it's a cycle. How can you not see that? In a few years you will be eating your words.

No, you're missing my main point:

The Left has been saying, through six years of the Bush administration, that the majority of Americans actually DO, NOW want what the Left is selling -- and somehow despite this clear fact the legislatures and the courts are doing all they can to give the American people the opposite of what they are clamoring for (Leftist policy as law).

So they are saying that when we have a Leftist administration, it's because the country wanted it and voted for it and got it...

...and when we have a Rightist administration, it's in SPITE of the fact that the country wanted a Leftist one.

In fact, according to Democrats, the majority of GUN OWNERS support GUN BANS.

And I'm wrong for thinking they're fucking nuts?

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Okay, so do you think there won't be a swing towards the left? Because you are the one living in fantasy land if you believe that.

It is inevitable and unstoppable.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Okay, so do you think there won't be a swing towards the left? Because you are the one living in fantasy land if you believe that.

It is inevitable and unstoppable.

Of course there can and probably will be, at some future point in history, a "swing toward the left."

It's just that even NOW, as we are experiencing a swing toward the right the Left is calling it a swing toward the left -- as though even despite everyone wanting Leftist government, we are being served Rightist government.

The delusion is incredible to behold.

Just imagine for a second that you are a gun owner, never been polled about your feelings on gun ownership, and then someone comes out with an alleged poll result that says, "60+% of gun owners support [insert draconian gun control law that will do nothing to curb crime here]"! What would you think?

You'd think they belonged in the loony bin, that's what you'd think.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I wonder how many Democrats would support Gore in 2008, knowing what they do about him now?

Is there anything new that is important?

He has a history of losing. No more needs to be said.

I agree he's a loser, but one only has to hear some of his speeches to realize what a very bad President he would have been. BTW, you do know Gore would have invaded Iraq don't you? Probably sooner than Bush did.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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BTW, you do know Gore would have invaded Iraq don't you? Probably sooner than Bush did.

It would have been a high-tech attack, though.

He would have crippled Iraq's vast, advanced, automated, computer-driven infrastructure by injecting a software virus into their matrix via that "Internet"-thingie he invented.

Bloodless battle -- just like a humanity-loving leftist pacifist ought to fight.


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Gravitymaster 0]

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BTW, you do know Gore would have invaded Iraq don't you? Probably sooner than Bush did.

It would have been a high-tech attack, though.

He would have crippled Iraq's vast, advanced, automated, computer-driven infrastructure by injecting a software virus into their matrix via that "Internet"-thingie he invented.

Bloodless battle -- just like a humanity-loving leftist pacifist ought to fight.


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In some respects, it's too bad Gore didn't win. Wouldn't it be fun to bash the lefties because Gore invaded Iraq?

[racer42 0]

Democracy is messy business isn't it. It takes more than one point of view to make it work at all.

Maybe after the mid terms we should all take a deep breath and see if there is any common ground left to work on.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Democracy is messy business isn't it. It takes more than one point of view to make it work at all.

Maybe after the mid terms we should all take a deep breath and see if there is any common ground left to work on.

I disagree. I think that if everyone was of the same mind about issues, things would go exceedingly smoothly, and stuff would get done as it should, and there would be little or no strife, and elections would be quite simple both to conduct and to predict.

There is nothing inherent in the notion of democracy that says there must be discord in order for it to work. There doesn't even have to be disagreement, or even variety. Just people voting for what they want.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[racer42 0]

My point is simple civil discourse. Your point is one party rule. That tends to be very efficient.

Good Night.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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My point is simple civil discourse. Your point is one party rule. That tends to be very efficient.

Good Night.

I did not say anything about "one party rule." I simply said, "What if everyone just happened to agree? That would not result in a system that collapsed. In fact, everyone would probably be really happy."

Don't forget that in the hypothetical I'm talking about, there wouldn't BE anyone who wasn't getting their way.

If you chartered a tour bus for 50 people, and ALL of them wanted to go to the same place, NO PROBLEM. Hey, let's get this bus movin'!

But if 15 of them wanted to go to Biloxi and see some shows, 5 wanted to go to Nashville, 10 wanted to go to New Orleans, and 20 wanted to head all the way to Las Vegas, when they vote on where to go, how many are gonna be pissed off? 30. How many will be happy? 20.

That's a wonderful system. I recognize that in the REALITY state, where there WILL be disagreement and different goals and visions of happiness and contentment, it's the best we can manage.

But please don't make the mistake of suggesting that a society in which everyone managed to agree totally would be some sort of hell on earth. It would be a lot more peaceful than the shithole we've got for a world.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kelpdiver 2]

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I agree he's a loser, but one only has to hear some of his speeches to realize what a very bad President he would have been. BTW, you do know Gore would have invaded Iraq don't you? Probably sooner than Bush did.

Well, part of the reason I didn't vote for him was a fear that he would jack up spending, which is always harder to step back from then ill advised tax cuts. Whoops, he couldn't have created more deficit spending than Bush did.

I think his Administration would also have used the opportunity provided by 9/11 to take out Saddam. And good chance the GOP would be the ones bitching about the costs and the lives lost, much as they did when Clinton ordered bombing strikes on Iraq before.

[rushmc 23]

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Democracy is messy business isn't it. It takes more than one point of view to make it work at all.

Maybe after the mid terms we should all take a deep breath and see if there is any common ground left to work on.

It would have to be common ground right to work on!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,589]

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There is nothing inherent in the notion of democracy that says there must be discord in order for it to work. There doesn't even have to be disagreement, or even variety. Just people voting for what they want.

It's not in the nature of democracy, it's in the nature of people.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sixtysevengt5oo 0]

What the "left" is saying, in fact has always said, and beleieved, is that most americans want what the democratic party offers, unfortunately most of them arent politically active enough to know what it is that the democratic party offers. If you were to ask an of the homeless families living in the ghetto, chances are you would find that they would like lower taxes a stronger welfare system and more equal distribution of wealth and freedom (different subject all together), but most of them probably couldnt tell you which party would try to make those things happen. Secondly what is the one thing that is most feared by citizens. The unknown, change, making things different then they are now. If it aint broke dont fix it is how most americans think, they just dont realize how broke it really is, and opt for the regressive non-responsive republican party, over trying something new that might work or might fail. Thirdly The republican party is very smart in that they know how to garner support through fear, fear of the outside world, fear of people of a different religion or language, fear of a state in the middle east having the ability to use nuclear weapons, when we are the biggest hippocrits, believing that we are the god chosen police of the world. When you see all these facts, lack of political knowledge, fear of change and dominearing with fear, coupled with the fact that only about 20% of the population actually votes in any given election, it is a very logical assumption that the people actually want what the "left suggests" but opt to vote otherwise.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

The problem as has been observed is that the better the welfare system -- the more money it has available to give to the poor and homeless -- the more likely it is to establish an entire "culture" of welfare recipients who don't want to bother getting a job because they're fine and dandy living off the welfare they get.

So what do we do? Maybe it's time for tough love? I don't profess to have "the" answer.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kallend 2,150]

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The problem as has been observed is that the better the welfare system -- the more money it has available to give to the poor and homeless -- the more likely it is to establish an entire "culture" of welfare recipients who don't want to bother getting a job because they're fine and dandy living off the welfare they get.

So what do we do? Maybe it's time for tough love? I don't profess to have "the" answer.

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Would you like to return to the conditions of the 1930's, with children starving in the streets? If not, how would you avoid it?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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The problem as has been observed is that the better the welfare system -- the more money it has available to give to the poor and homeless -- the more likely it is to establish an entire "culture" of welfare recipients who don't want to bother getting a job because they're fine and dandy living off the welfare they get.

So what do we do? Maybe it's time for tough love? I don't profess to have "the" answer.

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Would you like to return to the conditions of the 1930's, with children starving in the streets? If not, how would you avoid it?

Feed the Homeless to the Hungry.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kallend 2,150]

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The problem as has been observed is that the better the welfare system -- the more money it has available to give to the poor and homeless -- the more likely it is to establish an entire "culture" of welfare recipients who don't want to bother getting a job because they're fine and dandy living off the welfare they get.

So what do we do? Maybe it's time for tough love? I don't profess to have "the" answer.

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Would you like to return to the conditions of the 1930's, with children starving in the streets? If not, how would you avoid it?

Feed the Homeless to the Hungry.

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Plagiarism.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[goofyjumper 0]

But please don't make the mistake of suggesting that a society in which everyone managed to agree totally would be some sort of hell on earth. It would be a lot more peaceful than the shithole we've got for a world.

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Plagiarism?

The first time I ever heard that said, it was by a friend of mine in high school, in 1988 or so.

Who'm I supposed to have stolen it from? You??

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I don't question God, I question Man's representation of God!

Man's representation of god is all you know of god. Think about that.

And if you assert that you go by your own internal, true, personal representation of god, then consider that that's probably what guided all the others to make their representations of him to you -- and you claim that theirs are false!


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"