Newbie 0 #1 January 31, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/31/postal.shooting/index.html Why do these incidents always seem to happen in America, with the odd exception of things like the Dunblane shooting and the odd incident in Europe/Australia? Why do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? You can't say it's purely down to gun ownership as there are places with more guns per capita that don't engage in this sort of psychotic behaviour. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #2 January 31, 2006 In the words of Amazon...... Quack!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 January 31, 2006 Holy shit! Goleta is one of my old stomping grounds! My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeryde13 0 #4 January 31, 2006 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/31/postal.shooting/index.html Why do these incidents always seem to happen in America, with the odd exception of things like the Dunblane shooting and the odd incident in Europe/Australia? why do these things always happen in american post offices is the question?_________________________________________ people see me as a challenge to their balance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miked10270 0 #5 January 31, 2006 Quotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! For what it's worth, given my recent dealings with British Post Office Counters workers, I can give an excellent reason for Britain's prohibition on Big-Knives, Machine-Guns & Flamethrowers!!! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #6 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices ...... a full & proper "Postal"! because the mail just keeps coming. it NEVER STOPS {twitch}. it just goes and goes and goes and never stops {twitch}, it's relentless, no end in sight {twitch blink} why won't it just stop for ONE SECOND, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #7 January 31, 2006 Too bad, being a Federal facility, that everyone inside was unarmed. Makes it a perfect place for murder. Back in the fifties and earlier in this country, many postal employees were required to carry guns on the job, including airline pilots flying bags of mail. This crap never seemed to happen then. Many of these workplace revenge shootings are nipped in the bud by an armed citizen ( as opposed to a police officer) shooting back. Note that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 January 31, 2006 QuoteNote that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. The police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #9 January 31, 2006 QuoteThe police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line. Here's my favorite - traffic's bad, we all pull over in this crowed road to let the cop/ambulance/firetruck through. You don't know if there's a couple more following, so most of us sit back wait a bit (looking over the shoulder. Invariably - Some guy, middle aged, NICE car, business suit, talking on the cell phone, is tailing the emergency vehicle like it's his own personal escort. Why does that piss me off even more than the idiots that don't pull over? Maybe because the idiots are just oblivious, but this guy is doing it on purpose? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdfreefly 1 #10 January 31, 2006 That makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. If the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #11 January 31, 2006 Well, we do have a much higher population than Australia, so naturally, we'll have a higher number of psychos. I agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll. Maybe it would've been more like this: http://www.snopes.com/crime/dumdum/gunshop.asp http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article2902.html this article has some good violent crime statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CornishChris 5 #12 January 31, 2006 Is it disturbing that it didn't warrant as many columninches as: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/31/oscar.nominations/index.html ? CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #13 January 31, 2006 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/31/postal.shooting/index.html Why do these incidents always seem to happen in America, with the odd exception of things like the Dunblane shooting and the odd incident in Europe/Australia? It's a perception you have based on skewed coverage. Do you really think that countries apart from the U.S. do not have violent people committing heinous acts? How about that "doctor" in England who murdered OVER 100 PEOPLE?! Sure, he didn't use a gun... SO FUCKING [I]WHAT?![/I] Are his victims less dead because he drugged them to death? You also forgot about that kid in Germany about two years or so ago who shot up a school -- I think the dead numbered in the teens if I'm not mistaken. (Yep, here it is. 18 dead. 2002.) Also, search "Russian serial killer" and see what you get there. (Here, I've done it for you ) The world loves to play up the U.S. as super-violent. Go to Jamaica. Go to Mexico. Go to Puerto Rico. Go to Brazil. Go to Colombia. Go to Rwanda. Go to Sudan. Are these places filled with peace and light, with no murder? QuoteWhy do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? You can't say it's purely down to gun ownership as there are places with more guns per capita that don't engage in this sort of psychotic behaviour. At least you are not saying it's because we're allowed to own guns. Some people try that ridiculous illogic and expect it will fool us into believing it. The U.S. does not have a lock on psychotic behavior by any means. You just see it reported on more. Far more. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #14 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! Perhaps it has something to do with guns being banned in postal facilities. Nothing like feeling like killing people, and making sure to do it in a place where your victims aren't likely to have what they need to shoot back. You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A [B]GUN SHOW[/B] IN THE SAME MANNER. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #15 January 31, 2006 Quote Why do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? They don't. You see it on the news because it's exceedingly rare, shocking, and therefore good for ratings. Quote why do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Because law abiding postal customers have to leave their guns in the car and criminals know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 January 31, 2006 QuoteThat makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. There are five or so families who would be soooo glad to hear from you that it would not have been good to stop her killing rampage at 2 rather than 7. Really. WTF are you thinking? If a shooting is going to be initiated, isn't it better to cap the damage by capping the shooter, before she/he runs out of ammo? BTW, this is the first time I recall hearing about a woman doing this kind of thing... Weird. QuoteIf the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. So please, explain why mitigating the harm is not a worthwhile pursuit. I can't understand WTF you are getting at. No one said that it would PREVENT someone from doing this. It certainly can STOP it sooner, though.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 35 #17 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices ...... a full & proper "Postal"! because the mail just keeps coming. it NEVER STOPS {twitch}. it just goes and goes and goes and never stops {twitch}, it's relentless, no end in sight {twitch blink} why won't it just stop for ONE SECOND, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH Yep, it's one of the most stressful jobs in America, and it doesn't help if the manager is an asshole. I have a few friends in the service, and they have their mental days every now and then, but nowhere near this bad because there are psych and mental health services available."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #18 January 31, 2006 QuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. Cops and military personal spend hours upon hours of traing to control their emotions and adrenaline in such cases and we expect the average Joe to react in the same manner. I'm not a gun hater or saying we should do away with the 2nd, but lets step back and place an average citizen in such a situation. Lets look at air marshals. These are people who spend countless hours training to shoot and be accurate in small confined places while all hell is breaking lose around them. Could you react in the same manner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #19 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. You know what? You changed my mind. You're right. Far better to rely on having NO defense whatsoever -- not even one that has only a sliver of a chance of helping. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #20 January 31, 2006 There have been MANY documented cases of a civilian using a weapon successfully to defend him/herself. Here are only a few: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=49393 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13708175.htm http://www.1bakersfield.com/news/read/2/62873 http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3836725 You can find many more here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #21 January 31, 2006 QuoteSeriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Regular citizens use guns correctly in such stressful situations, every day: The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 January 31, 2006 So, are some of you suggesting that lives could be saved if the rules were changed and that it's O.K for people to take guns into Government Buildings? What about Pubs or schools? . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,118 #23 January 31, 2006 Was she a (previously) law abiding citizen who can be trusted with firearms?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #24 January 31, 2006 Quote Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. It's not like the angry postal worker had formal training either. But it sure is easy picking off victims who can't fire back. You point the gun at them, slowly walk up, and fire. Or if they try to run, fire earlier and often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #25 February 1, 2006 In reply to; {You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A GUN SHOW IN THE SAME MANNER} Hi Peacefull Jeffrey, Actually there was a guy who did try to rob a gun store which was at the time hosting an NRA convention. He was posthumously given a Darwin Award. You can confirm this at their website. Your point however is perfectly valid. If these bozo'z knew that their intended targets would shoot back they would likely have better control of their anger or go seek another unarmed group. Cheers, Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
miked10270 0 #5 January 31, 2006 Quotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! For what it's worth, given my recent dealings with British Post Office Counters workers, I can give an excellent reason for Britain's prohibition on Big-Knives, Machine-Guns & Flamethrowers!!! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices ...... a full & proper "Postal"! because the mail just keeps coming. it NEVER STOPS {twitch}. it just goes and goes and goes and never stops {twitch}, it's relentless, no end in sight {twitch blink} why won't it just stop for ONE SECOND, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #7 January 31, 2006 Too bad, being a Federal facility, that everyone inside was unarmed. Makes it a perfect place for murder. Back in the fifties and earlier in this country, many postal employees were required to carry guns on the job, including airline pilots flying bags of mail. This crap never seemed to happen then. Many of these workplace revenge shootings are nipped in the bud by an armed citizen ( as opposed to a police officer) shooting back. Note that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 January 31, 2006 QuoteNote that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. The police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #9 January 31, 2006 QuoteThe police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line. Here's my favorite - traffic's bad, we all pull over in this crowed road to let the cop/ambulance/firetruck through. You don't know if there's a couple more following, so most of us sit back wait a bit (looking over the shoulder. Invariably - Some guy, middle aged, NICE car, business suit, talking on the cell phone, is tailing the emergency vehicle like it's his own personal escort. Why does that piss me off even more than the idiots that don't pull over? Maybe because the idiots are just oblivious, but this guy is doing it on purpose? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdfreefly 1 #10 January 31, 2006 That makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. If the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #11 January 31, 2006 Well, we do have a much higher population than Australia, so naturally, we'll have a higher number of psychos. I agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll. Maybe it would've been more like this: http://www.snopes.com/crime/dumdum/gunshop.asp http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article2902.html this article has some good violent crime statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CornishChris 5 #12 January 31, 2006 Is it disturbing that it didn't warrant as many columninches as: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/31/oscar.nominations/index.html ? CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #13 January 31, 2006 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/31/postal.shooting/index.html Why do these incidents always seem to happen in America, with the odd exception of things like the Dunblane shooting and the odd incident in Europe/Australia? It's a perception you have based on skewed coverage. Do you really think that countries apart from the U.S. do not have violent people committing heinous acts? How about that "doctor" in England who murdered OVER 100 PEOPLE?! Sure, he didn't use a gun... SO FUCKING [I]WHAT?![/I] Are his victims less dead because he drugged them to death? You also forgot about that kid in Germany about two years or so ago who shot up a school -- I think the dead numbered in the teens if I'm not mistaken. (Yep, here it is. 18 dead. 2002.) Also, search "Russian serial killer" and see what you get there. (Here, I've done it for you ) The world loves to play up the U.S. as super-violent. Go to Jamaica. Go to Mexico. Go to Puerto Rico. Go to Brazil. Go to Colombia. Go to Rwanda. Go to Sudan. Are these places filled with peace and light, with no murder? QuoteWhy do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? You can't say it's purely down to gun ownership as there are places with more guns per capita that don't engage in this sort of psychotic behaviour. At least you are not saying it's because we're allowed to own guns. Some people try that ridiculous illogic and expect it will fool us into believing it. The U.S. does not have a lock on psychotic behavior by any means. You just see it reported on more. Far more. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #14 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! Perhaps it has something to do with guns being banned in postal facilities. Nothing like feeling like killing people, and making sure to do it in a place where your victims aren't likely to have what they need to shoot back. You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A [B]GUN SHOW[/B] IN THE SAME MANNER. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #15 January 31, 2006 Quote Why do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? They don't. You see it on the news because it's exceedingly rare, shocking, and therefore good for ratings. Quote why do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Because law abiding postal customers have to leave their guns in the car and criminals know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 January 31, 2006 QuoteThat makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. There are five or so families who would be soooo glad to hear from you that it would not have been good to stop her killing rampage at 2 rather than 7. Really. WTF are you thinking? If a shooting is going to be initiated, isn't it better to cap the damage by capping the shooter, before she/he runs out of ammo? BTW, this is the first time I recall hearing about a woman doing this kind of thing... Weird. QuoteIf the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. So please, explain why mitigating the harm is not a worthwhile pursuit. I can't understand WTF you are getting at. No one said that it would PREVENT someone from doing this. It certainly can STOP it sooner, though.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 35 #17 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices ...... a full & proper "Postal"! because the mail just keeps coming. it NEVER STOPS {twitch}. it just goes and goes and goes and never stops {twitch}, it's relentless, no end in sight {twitch blink} why won't it just stop for ONE SECOND, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH Yep, it's one of the most stressful jobs in America, and it doesn't help if the manager is an asshole. I have a few friends in the service, and they have their mental days every now and then, but nowhere near this bad because there are psych and mental health services available."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #18 January 31, 2006 QuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. Cops and military personal spend hours upon hours of traing to control their emotions and adrenaline in such cases and we expect the average Joe to react in the same manner. I'm not a gun hater or saying we should do away with the 2nd, but lets step back and place an average citizen in such a situation. Lets look at air marshals. These are people who spend countless hours training to shoot and be accurate in small confined places while all hell is breaking lose around them. Could you react in the same manner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #19 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. You know what? You changed my mind. You're right. Far better to rely on having NO defense whatsoever -- not even one that has only a sliver of a chance of helping. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #20 January 31, 2006 There have been MANY documented cases of a civilian using a weapon successfully to defend him/herself. Here are only a few: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=49393 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13708175.htm http://www.1bakersfield.com/news/read/2/62873 http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3836725 You can find many more here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #21 January 31, 2006 QuoteSeriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Regular citizens use guns correctly in such stressful situations, every day: The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 January 31, 2006 So, are some of you suggesting that lives could be saved if the rules were changed and that it's O.K for people to take guns into Government Buildings? What about Pubs or schools? . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,118 #23 January 31, 2006 Was she a (previously) law abiding citizen who can be trusted with firearms?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #24 January 31, 2006 Quote Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. It's not like the angry postal worker had formal training either. But it sure is easy picking off victims who can't fire back. You point the gun at them, slowly walk up, and fire. Or if they try to run, fire earlier and often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #25 February 1, 2006 In reply to; {You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A GUN SHOW IN THE SAME MANNER} Hi Peacefull Jeffrey, Actually there was a guy who did try to rob a gun store which was at the time hosting an NRA convention. He was posthumously given a Darwin Award. You can confirm this at their website. Your point however is perfectly valid. If these bozo'z knew that their intended targets would shoot back they would likely have better control of their anger or go seek another unarmed group. Cheers, Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
JohnMitchell 16 #7 January 31, 2006 Too bad, being a Federal facility, that everyone inside was unarmed. Makes it a perfect place for murder. Back in the fifties and earlier in this country, many postal employees were required to carry guns on the job, including airline pilots flying bags of mail. This crap never seemed to happen then. Many of these workplace revenge shootings are nipped in the bud by an armed citizen ( as opposed to a police officer) shooting back. Note that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 January 31, 2006 QuoteNote that it takes forever for police response in these situations. Don't expect the police to save your life for you. They can't be everywhere at once. The police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 January 31, 2006 QuoteThe police could be to situations a lot quicker if people would actually realize there's a whole world outside of their music filled, cellphone talking bubble in their car. With lights AND siren AND hitting the air horn over and over, people still drive all over instead of pulling to the side and creating a lane. Its not for fun, that's when someone's life is on the line. Here's my favorite - traffic's bad, we all pull over in this crowed road to let the cop/ambulance/firetruck through. You don't know if there's a couple more following, so most of us sit back wait a bit (looking over the shoulder. Invariably - Some guy, middle aged, NICE car, business suit, talking on the cell phone, is tailing the emergency vehicle like it's his own personal escort. Why does that piss me off even more than the idiots that don't pull over? Maybe because the idiots are just oblivious, but this guy is doing it on purpose? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #10 January 31, 2006 That makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. If the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 January 31, 2006 Well, we do have a much higher population than Australia, so naturally, we'll have a higher number of psychos. I agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll. Maybe it would've been more like this: http://www.snopes.com/crime/dumdum/gunshop.asp http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article2902.html this article has some good violent crime statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #12 January 31, 2006 Is it disturbing that it didn't warrant as many columninches as: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/31/oscar.nominations/index.html ? CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #13 January 31, 2006 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/31/postal.shooting/index.html Why do these incidents always seem to happen in America, with the odd exception of things like the Dunblane shooting and the odd incident in Europe/Australia? It's a perception you have based on skewed coverage. Do you really think that countries apart from the U.S. do not have violent people committing heinous acts? How about that "doctor" in England who murdered OVER 100 PEOPLE?! Sure, he didn't use a gun... SO FUCKING [I]WHAT?![/I] Are his victims less dead because he drugged them to death? You also forgot about that kid in Germany about two years or so ago who shot up a school -- I think the dead numbered in the teens if I'm not mistaken. (Yep, here it is. 18 dead. 2002.) Also, search "Russian serial killer" and see what you get there. (Here, I've done it for you ) The world loves to play up the U.S. as super-violent. Go to Jamaica. Go to Mexico. Go to Puerto Rico. Go to Brazil. Go to Colombia. Go to Rwanda. Go to Sudan. Are these places filled with peace and light, with no murder? QuoteWhy do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? You can't say it's purely down to gun ownership as there are places with more guns per capita that don't engage in this sort of psychotic behaviour. At least you are not saying it's because we're allowed to own guns. Some people try that ridiculous illogic and expect it will fool us into believing it. The U.S. does not have a lock on psychotic behavior by any means. You just see it reported on more. Far more. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #14 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Now THAT'S a damn good question. When I saw the title, I just assumed it was a workplace shooting - not a full & proper "Postal"! Perhaps it has something to do with guns being banned in postal facilities. Nothing like feeling like killing people, and making sure to do it in a place where your victims aren't likely to have what they need to shoot back. You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A [B]GUN SHOW[/B] IN THE SAME MANNER. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #15 January 31, 2006 Quote Why do so many people pick up guns and go on shooting murderous shooting sprees in the US? They don't. You see it on the news because it's exceedingly rare, shocking, and therefore good for ratings. Quote why do these things always happen in american post offices is the question? Because law abiding postal customers have to leave their guns in the car and criminals know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 January 31, 2006 QuoteThat makes no sense at all. I am all for citizens being armed, and I certainly think that if they were, at most one or two would have died before she was taken out, but it would not have prevented it. There are five or so families who would be soooo glad to hear from you that it would not have been good to stop her killing rampage at 2 rather than 7. Really. WTF are you thinking? If a shooting is going to be initiated, isn't it better to cap the damage by capping the shooter, before she/he runs out of ammo? BTW, this is the first time I recall hearing about a woman doing this kind of thing... Weird. QuoteIf the woman's goal was to sneak in, kill a couple people and make a clean gettaway, sure, knowing everyone inside was armed may have stopped her. But she went in on a suicide mission, a few guns on the other side would not have prevented this. It may have mitigated the harm she was able to cause, but that's it. So please, explain why mitigating the harm is not a worthwhile pursuit. I can't understand WTF you are getting at. No one said that it would PREVENT someone from doing this. It certainly can STOP it sooner, though.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #17 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotewhy do these things always happen in american post offices ...... a full & proper "Postal"! because the mail just keeps coming. it NEVER STOPS {twitch}. it just goes and goes and goes and never stops {twitch}, it's relentless, no end in sight {twitch blink} why won't it just stop for ONE SECOND, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH Yep, it's one of the most stressful jobs in America, and it doesn't help if the manager is an asshole. I have a few friends in the service, and they have their mental days every now and then, but nowhere near this bad because there are psych and mental health services available."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #18 January 31, 2006 QuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. Cops and military personal spend hours upon hours of traing to control their emotions and adrenaline in such cases and we expect the average Joe to react in the same manner. I'm not a gun hater or saying we should do away with the 2nd, but lets step back and place an average citizen in such a situation. Lets look at air marshals. These are people who spend countless hours training to shoot and be accurate in small confined places while all hell is breaking lose around them. Could you react in the same manner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #19 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. You know what? You changed my mind. You're right. Far better to rely on having NO defense whatsoever -- not even one that has only a sliver of a chance of helping. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #20 January 31, 2006 There have been MANY documented cases of a civilian using a weapon successfully to defend him/herself. Here are only a few: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=49393 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13708175.htm http://www.1bakersfield.com/news/read/2/62873 http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3836725 You can find many more here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #21 January 31, 2006 QuoteSeriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Regular citizens use guns correctly in such stressful situations, every day: The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #22 January 31, 2006 So, are some of you suggesting that lives could be saved if the rules were changed and that it's O.K for people to take guns into Government Buildings? What about Pubs or schools? . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,118 #23 January 31, 2006 Was she a (previously) law abiding citizen who can be trusted with firearms?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #24 January 31, 2006 Quote Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. It's not like the angry postal worker had formal training either. But it sure is easy picking off victims who can't fire back. You point the gun at them, slowly walk up, and fire. Or if they try to run, fire earlier and often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #25 February 1, 2006 In reply to; {You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A GUN SHOW IN THE SAME MANNER} Hi Peacefull Jeffrey, Actually there was a guy who did try to rob a gun store which was at the time hosting an NRA convention. He was posthumously given a Darwin Award. You can confirm this at their website. Your point however is perfectly valid. If these bozo'z knew that their intended targets would shoot back they would likely have better control of their anger or go seek another unarmed group. Cheers, Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Casurf1978 0 #18 January 31, 2006 QuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. Cops and military personal spend hours upon hours of traing to control their emotions and adrenaline in such cases and we expect the average Joe to react in the same manner. I'm not a gun hater or saying we should do away with the 2nd, but lets step back and place an average citizen in such a situation. Lets look at air marshals. These are people who spend countless hours training to shoot and be accurate in small confined places while all hell is breaking lose around them. Could you react in the same manner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #19 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI agree with JohnMitchell... if even one of the people in that facility had been armed, the whole thing might've ended much sooner with a much smaller death toll Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. You know what? You changed my mind. You're right. Far better to rely on having NO defense whatsoever -- not even one that has only a sliver of a chance of helping. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #20 January 31, 2006 There have been MANY documented cases of a civilian using a weapon successfully to defend him/herself. Here are only a few: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=49393 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13708175.htm http://www.1bakersfield.com/news/read/2/62873 http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3836725 You can find many more here: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #21 January 31, 2006 QuoteSeriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Regular citizens use guns correctly in such stressful situations, every day: The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 January 31, 2006 So, are some of you suggesting that lives could be saved if the rules were changed and that it's O.K for people to take guns into Government Buildings? What about Pubs or schools? . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,118 #23 January 31, 2006 Was she a (previously) law abiding citizen who can be trusted with firearms?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 January 31, 2006 Quote Seriously what are the chances of a regular citizen stopping such an incident. Lets assume someone there was armed. How do you think they would've reacted w/o any formal training. It's not like the angry postal worker had formal training either. But it sure is easy picking off victims who can't fire back. You point the gun at them, slowly walk up, and fire. Or if they try to run, fire earlier and often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #25 February 1, 2006 In reply to; {You'll notice, NO ONE HAS EVER SHOT UP A GUN SHOW IN THE SAME MANNER} Hi Peacefull Jeffrey, Actually there was a guy who did try to rob a gun store which was at the time hosting an NRA convention. He was posthumously given a Darwin Award. You can confirm this at their website. Your point however is perfectly valid. If these bozo'z knew that their intended targets would shoot back they would likely have better control of their anger or go seek another unarmed group. Cheers, Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
