Kennedy 0 #1 January 30, 2006 Not exactly hot off the presses, but good news to me nonetheless... http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060127.aspx QuoteAfter two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches. The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs. The competition could get intense with an order this size, and there are already some good .45 caliber designs out there, including a SOCOM version of the Heckler and Koch USP. The U.S. Marine Corps uses an upgraded version of the M1911, and were also looking at new .45 caliber designs. SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath. For more detailed/technical info, check http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/jcp.htmwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #2 January 30, 2006 Good. The M-9 is a weak-ass, no-punch-having piece of NATO shit.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #3 January 31, 2006 I predict you will receive exactly zero arguments (from people who have ever fired one)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #4 January 31, 2006 seconded...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #5 January 31, 2006 Agreed. I was succesful with mine though. I use the 2 shot (aka "Double tap") with all close quarters weapons so I never had any real issues with it.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #6 January 31, 2006 Quote Good. The M-9 is a weak-ass, no-punch-having piece of NATO shit. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 January 31, 2006 The interesting thing about this to me is that they're calling for new designs, instead of just re-adopting the model 1911 .45. So coming out of this effort, we may get some cool new ways to have .45 caliber shooting fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #8 January 31, 2006 QuoteGood. The M-9 is a weak-ass, no-punch-having piece of NATO shit. I believe there's a PIRA Group presently resident in Gibraltar Cemetery who would take issue with that statement... If they could! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #9 January 31, 2006 After enduring numerous life threatening M9 failures in the Phillipines and Afghanistan HM1 Dickson said..... "I would rather have a slingshot than an F***king M9" At least in Iraq,he was issued an M16A2.......but corpsman that didnt qualify with the M16 had to rely on the "trusty" M9Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #10 February 1, 2006 QuoteAt least in Iraq,he was issued an M16A2.......but corpsman that didnt qualify with the M16 had to rely on the "trusty" M9 WTF? I had never even touched an M-16A2 until I was a 1Lt...and I still qual'ed first time out... How shitty a rifleman was this Corpsman?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #11 February 1, 2006 Quote...they're calling for new designs .... we may get some cool new ways to have .45 caliber shooting fun. OR...! The US Forces will get the cheapest, crappiest, who-cares-if-it's-reliable-is-it-CHEAP!!? collection of pistol-shaped-plumbers-junk in .45Cal instead of 9mm. Then the USDoD can cut back on training 'cos of the increased ammo costs! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #12 February 1, 2006 QuoteThe interesting thing about this to me is that they're calling for new designs, instead of just re-adopting the model 1911 .45. So coming out of this effort, we may get some cool new ways to have .45 caliber shooting fun. I remember seeing this on the History Channel but wasnt it a close competition between the Browning and the Lugar to see which one the army would adopt back in the early 1900s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt91078 0 #13 February 1, 2006 I'm not arguing the merits of either weapon, merely agreeing with the last line of "But don’t hold your breath." regarding the new weapon being fielded DOD wide anytime soon. The military has over 500,000 M9 pistols in the different services and has, as of 5 January 2006, awarded a "five-year indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract W52H09-05-D-0328 to Airtronic Services, Inc. in Elk Grove Village, IL" to manufacture 14.9 million M9 magazines over 5 (five) years at a cost of $67 million 59 thousand dollars. There are also some other smaller contracts for some slides and guide rod/recoil spring mechanisms, but that wasn't worthy of a link since it failed to compare to a 67million dollar contract. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/01/airtronic-takes-over-contract-for-14-million-m9-pistol-magazines-offers-sand-solutions/index.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #14 February 1, 2006 QuoteWTF? I had never even touched an M-16A2 until I was a 1Lt...and I still qual'ed first time out... How shitty a rifleman was this Corpsman? Maybe he has cerebral palsy...either that, or he's not even a man considering he can't fucking qualify on an insanely easy to shoot weapon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #15 February 1, 2006 Maybe he meant he didn't get the chance to qualify and still got stuck with the M-9? That is kind of a rule, I don't follow it myself, but I heard it was rule some where.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #16 February 1, 2006 "The US Forces will get the cheapest, crappiest, who-cares-if-it's-reliable-is-it-CHEAP!!?" Like an SA80?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #17 February 1, 2006 Quote cheapest, crappiest, who-cares-if-it's-reliable-is-it-CHEAP!!?" Like an SA80? Yeah... EXACTLY like the SA-80 / IW(s) / L85... "To load, push the magazine home firmly but not forcibly , pull the cocking handle fully back allowing the extractor port cover to open by itself, release the cocking handle and allow it to return under spring pressure, then push the cocking handle forward!!!" Why didn't they just say "This is a jammed weapon looking for an excuse!" Apparently, just like any dodgy piece of criminal shite it has a tendency to keep changing it's name to avoid getting blame. Mike. PS: Did you see that ex Irish Guards Colonel (forgot his name) talking about being accused of possessing an AK47 during his tour in Iraq? Too funny. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #18 February 1, 2006 The SA80's not cheap... it's just built cheap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #19 February 1, 2006 "Did you see that ex Irish Guards Colonel (forgot his name) talking about being accused of possessing an AK47 during his tour in Iraq? Too funny" Missed that one Mike, but I was quietly choking on my bacon butties at the weekend, as the Scotland On Sunday poured out a tale of woe regarding failure of kit in Iraq. 'The SA80's not cheap... it's just built cheap." Aye hurts to agree... what did the upgrade cost 93 million or something like that? And they still don't work properly!-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #20 February 1, 2006 Quotewhat did the upgrade cost 93 million or something... Play fair - the Heckler & Koch redesign improved the weapon beyond all recognition to the point where it's merely an unreliable jam-prone piece of shite! At least it doesn't self-disassemble any more and the magazine no longer falls out (as often)! The Irish Guards Colonel - the one who was done for his "energetic" chats with Iraqis - was talking about the various complaints against him by MoD. One of them was that he collected an AK47 & used it as his personal weapon instead of an SA80. He stated: "That wasn't true. I didn't have an AK47, I had 3 of the feckers! Ma troops used them as well. We used what worked. We got some American (M-16) rifles as well, but the AK was better". Mike. Edited to add: It was Colonel Tim Collins, Royal Irish Regiment. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #21 February 1, 2006 If one cannot qualify with the M16A2 rifle your carrer will end ASAP as you are unfit for military service.All basic trainees must qualify or be mustered out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #22 February 1, 2006 QuoteGood. The M-9 is a weak-ass, no-punch-having piece of NATO shit. Yep. It sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #23 February 1, 2006 the AK47 is no better a weapon unless you are under 200 yards look up the ballistics if you don't believe me. If an AK47 chambered in 7.62x39 is zeroed @200yds the bullet drop @ 300yds is 13.5" when you see people shooting an AK at our guys they had better be close because they will be engaged @500yds by a M16A2(preferably with an ACOG or similar) besides the AK will not penetrate 1/2" of hardened steel. however if you want a great M16 get a 6.5mm grendel from www.alexanderarms.com it performs nearly as well as 7.62 out to 500yds and after that it actually performs better and is still supersonic @1200yds and actually is an excellent 1000yd weapon firing a 123grain lapua scenar bullet traveling @2600f/ps and thats a mild load... this would make any current 5.56mmx45 weapon much more effective and make a M249 SAW an equivalent of the M60 or M240 (FN MAG58) and much less weight which is wonderful given the current battle loadouts our guys are required to carry these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #24 February 1, 2006 the new 45cal weapon will be a springfield armory weapon. HEAR ME NOW>>>>BELIEVE ME LATER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #25 February 1, 2006 BTW if you use 9mm +p+ ammo in a Sig Sauer p226 what you have is a 16 shot weapon that approximates the power of .357mag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
