Where were the parents?

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

Don't know if y'all heard about the accident down in Union County, Fla. where the 15 yr old was driving the siblings around and the van that they were driving was hit by a Semi (the van was in between a school bus and the semi came up from behind). The van exploded and all are dead. What the hell was the 15 yr old doing driving, with all the siblings in the car no less. I feel for the parents they lost all their kids, but jeez what was the oldest doing driving the van? Should the parents get some kind of reprimand?
Obviously we don't know the circumstances as to why, if I was the mother to those kids, I would be suicidal right now if not dead.
B

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[mailin 0]

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_on_re_us/school_bus_crash;_ylt=AoaUgYJEey1KtnYIlpWm9Uys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

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LAKE BUTLER, Fla. - A car full of siblings headed home was crushed between a truck and a stopped school bus, killing the seven adopted children just two miles from where they lived.

Investigators were trying to understand why the driver of a truck hit the car from behind, pushing it in to the bus that was carrying nine students.

Everyone in the car was killed Wednesday, including the 15-year-old girl who was driving illegally. Tina Mann told CNN that her niece, who had a learner's permit, had dropped off another child and was taking her siblings home "to get ready to go to church."

"Even though she was an underage driver, it's my understanding she did not cause the accident," Mann told CNN. "The same thing would have happened had there been an adult in the car with her. We'd just have one more death in the family."

The victims in the car were identified by authorities as 15-year-old driver Nicki Mann; Elizabeth Mann, 15; Johnny Mann, 13; Heaven Mann, 3; Ashley Kenn, 13; Miranda Finn, who was either 8- or 9-years-old; and Anthony Lamb, who was almost 2 years old.

Five of the students onboard the bus were taken to University of Florida's Shands Hospital in Gainesville. Three were in serious condition and two were in fair condition, hospital officials said Wednesday night.

The other four were taken to area hospitals. It was believed that they were treated and released, said Lt. Mike Burroughs of the Florida Highway Patrol.

"It was horrible. People were screaming, children were wandering around, two were laying (in) the middle of the road," said Joy Clemins, who lives near the crash site. "It is like they were walking around in a dream."

The bus driver, Lillie Mae Perry, was transferred to a Gainesville hospital where she was in stable condition, hospital officials said.

Grief counselors were scheduled to be on hand Thursday to help students deal with the tragedy, said Union County School Superintendent Carlton Faulk. Lake Butler is about 60 miles southwest of Jacksonville in rural northern Florida.

"In a small county you get to know the kids," he said. "A lot of the administrators and myself actually taught the parents of some of these kids. It's a very close knit community."

Alvin Wilkerson, 31, the truck driver, suffered minor injuries. Burroughs said charges against Wilkerson were pending an investigation.

"We want to know why he didn't see a big, large school bus," Burroughs said.

He said authorities were looking into whether Wilkerson was possibly talking on his cell phone, if he was tired or if there was a mechanical failure of the truck.

Burroughs said a sample of Wilkerson's blood-alcohol level has also been collected.

Arianna Frances

[mailin 0]

Not that I'm advocating that this was legal in anyway, but when I had my learners permit and was in the car, I was always driving - granted it was with a parent in the car.

Plus, from the description it doesn't sound like the child caused the accident.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[TrophyHusband 0]

this is truly tragic. i think about how much of my life is taken up caring for my two children. imagine how much of your life would be taken up by 7 children. coming home and finding that all 7 of your children have been killed would leave a person an empty shell. 15 year olds are usually capable of babysitting, but the are also capable of doing stupid shit. i don't think that any reprimand will do anything to the parents. they've already been dealt the worst punishment possible.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

No she didn't cause the accident. You are right. She had no business though driving around with all those kids in the car, one being a two year old. I know what it is like to drive with youngsters in the car it can get pretty loud and outrageous. WHY was she driving, is my question. God what a huge waste. I am just sick over this. It has me really baffled and bummed out.

Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

I agree, I guess I am just a little outraged and need some kind of answers as to "why" this could/would happen to precious children.


Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[Miranda 0]

Like so many things in life, sometimes-you are just not meant to understand. Accept that, then pray for God's peace for the family and community.

[mailin 0]

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WHY was she driving, is my question.

Not that I'm trying to start an argument, but would your take on this be different if an adult was in the car with her?

Like I said, whenever I was in the car with my mom or dad I was always driving - although we don't know the specifics it sounds like this accident wasn't her fault and could have happened no matter who was driving. I think its premature to blame the parents - the only thing they are guilty of at this point is not being in the car with a driver who only had a learners permit.

At age 15 I had my own babysitting company and frequently watched my neighbors kids - 4 under 6. It sounds like many of the children in the car were close to the drivers age, thusly doubtful to be a really stressful situation for her.



Jen

Arianna Frances

[RhondaLea 4]

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WHY was she driving, is my question.

I'm going with Mailin on this.

An adult in the car would have meant an increase in the body count. No more, no less.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

Yeah, I have a serious problem with a 15 yr old driving a car, period. I also have a serious problem with a 15 yr old driving a car with 6 other siblings in the car. When you have a learners permit, you should only have one adult with you, just incase you do get into an accident. You shouldn't be toting around a group of friends/family when you are learning to drive. One person should be with you and that should be an experienced driver.

I would just like to know why they were all in the car unsupervised. NO the accident was not her fault, I understand this. Like I said, I want to know why she was where she was and where were the parents?

I started to baby sit at 11. At one time I have to baby sit three kids all under the age of nine. I had my hands full.

" It sounds like many of the children in the car were close to the drivers age, thusly doubtful to be a really stressful situation for her."

How well did you listen to your siblings while growing up?? 6 kids in the car, thats a rolling daycare.

Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[TrophyHusband 0]

unfortunately sometimes shitty things happen to good people. i think that there are plenty of 15 year olds that have taken mom and dad's car somewhere before. at 15, you just don't understand the consequences of some of your actions. this is the worst case scenerio.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Andy9o8 2]

Sorry to say it just got worse. The news says that the kids' grandfather died from a massive heart attack, probably out of grief. Horrible tragedy.

[rasmack 0]

Grandpa dies on hearing 7 children killed in fiery wreck

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[GravityGirl 0]

I just want to point out that the oldest child in a family of 7 has a much higher maturity level than the youngest child in a family of 7 or than a 15 year old only child.

The oldest child in a big family lives with grown up responsibilities every day, morning to night.

I'm not saying that I advocate her driving with just a permit and kids in the car. But six months later, she would have been driving legally with her siblings.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[rehmwa 2]

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The oldest child in a big family lives with grown up responsibilities every day, morning to night.

it might have some basis, but I bet exceptions to the rule are so numerous that you'd have to hardly call it a rule but more of an unfounded observation or bias

Now let's see every oldest child from a big family jump all over this post...... and every only child jump all over the other one

I'm from a medium sized family (4 kids) so I don't care

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[hexadecimal 0]

It's pretty obvious that some of the people in this thread aren't familiar with the "American way"... which is to rely on society to keep your children safe and out of trouble.

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

"But six months later, she would have been driving legally with her siblings."


Well thats where different parenting skills come in...

When my child gets his liscense and he is a full fledged driver, that first year (maybe a little less if he is as good a driver as I am) he will be driving only himself around with the exception of taking Mom or Dad to the store, etc (his friends can be in the car as long as Mom or Dad rides shot gun). His driving skills will be honed before he starts driving his friends around. I will take him into every situation there could possibly be...rain, slick roads, dusk, dawn, thunderstorm, down town, up town, etc.

Obliviously I can't control what he does once he pulls out of the drive by hisself and heads to wherever, but I can try to put the fear of God into him and make him think twice before he does anything stupid.

Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[Miranda 0]

This seems a little unrealistic...out of curiosity, how many children do you currently have and how old are they?

[unformed 0]

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Obliviously I can't control what he does once he pulls out of the drive by hisself and heads to wherever, but I can try to put the fear of God into him and make him think twice before he does anything stupid.

When kids are sixteen, they do stupid things. That's part of being a sixteen year old. The more you try to put the fear of God in him, i'll bet the more he rebels, of course, not to your knowledge.

This ad space for sale.

[GravityGirl 0]

Hmmm. There are as many different kind of parenting skills as there are parents.

I think each child should be looked upon as an individual. My daughter is an only child. Her family responsibilites will likely be limited. We'll see what her decision making skills and maturity levels are like at 15 and base our decisions on that when the time comes.

But I know that my sister (oldest of 6 kids) used to change our diapers, drive us to school, fix us dinner, etc, etc, etc. And to be honest, I prefered her driving as a 16 year old over my Mom. She grew up with a lot of family responsibility and she took it seriously. So did my brother.... #2.

At 16 I used to take my nieces and nephews to church in my car all of the time.

I am a very conservative Mom IMHO, but I really think you have to look at each child as an idividual before you make a blanket statement.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

Two, both boys...soon to be 11 and the other is 7 1/2.

Trust me when I say...I have SEEN EVERYTHING & DONE EVERYTHING. I know all the tricks in the book and wrote some new ones. Nothing gets past me and if it does/did, well then shame on me.

Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[SkydiveStMarys 0]

Ok maybe not the "fear of God', how about the fear of his mother.


Bobbi

A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm not saying that I advocate her driving with just a permit and kids in the car. But six months later, she would have been driving legally with her siblings.

In Florida yes, but perhaps not here in California. Many states have moved to limited the type of passengers (by age) new drivers may take. In Calfornia, that's no one under 20. (not sure if family is exempt)

But it's a bit unrelated to this particular accident. Life dealt that family a lousy hand and I see no cause or gain in punishing the parents. Society can't prevent bad things from happening.

[unformed 0]

maybe your kids will be different.

the more my parents yelled, the less i listened ...

or that could just be me ....

This ad space for sale.

[Miranda 0]

Do you really want your children to fear you? Respect you and your authority I can understand, but fear is something different. Not that I'm questioning/doubting your parenting skills, but I personally don't want my daughters to fear me. I believe that could only cause it's own set of problems. My parents were very strict with me, but I respected, not feared them. I also was the oldest child and spent much of my time babysitting my younger siblings. At 15 I believe I was very responsible for my age.

Also, you stated how things would be for your son at age 16, like that you were going to teach him to drive in various situations, not driving around with friends in the car unless you or his father were with him.....but that confuses me because I thought that was what having a learners permit at age 15 was for. So that during that year, before they turn 16, they can "learn" how to respond to those different situations and also what you expect of them when they are indeed "behind the wheel and on their own".

I don't want to start an argument of any sort, obviously different people have different ideas about raising children, but it just seems like you're looking for someone (the parents) to blame for this senseless accident, and therefore judging their parenting skills. The only person to possibly blame in this situation is the driver of the truck. As for the reasons why this 15 year old was driving her siblings around, you may never know that answer and in fact are not entitled to it. That information belongs to the family and only those they choose to share it with. IMHO, it seems the only questions that anyone should be seeking answers to are those involving the driver of the truck. At this point, those are the only pertinent answers.