Sen.Blutarsky 0 #26 January 26, 2006 QuoteFor the US to say it flat out won't deal with Hamas would be an excelent example of such a belief system gone awry. Yes, we have no bananas … so much for respecting an apparently democratic vote … Bush: U.S. won't deal with Hamas By Mark Silva Chicago Tribune Washington Bureau Published January 26, 2006, 11:27 AM CST WASHINGTON -- While cautioning that a new Palestinian government has not formed yet, President Bush said today that Hamas, the radical Islamic party that prevailed in parliamentary elections there, is "a party with which we will not deal." Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060126bushmideast,1,721216.story?coll=chi-news-hed Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 January 26, 2006 But can Hamas get the trash picked up, the mail delivered and the buses running on schedule? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #28 January 26, 2006 Quotethose pictures kinda look like these Although they are somewhat down the scale from Islamic fundamentalists, i also look at the US militia and they way they "prep" their children and families for a so called inevitavle standoff with the US government with an air deep suspicion. Militia are less likely to be fundamentalistic, but look at Tim McVeigh. Anyone, from any walk of life, imbiding within their children a sense of disregard for not only their own lives, but the lives of innocent civilians around them, and celebrating suicidal attacks on those innocents, deserves nothing from life. You are right - they do kind of look like the pictures i put up, and that's worrying. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #29 January 26, 2006 Quotethose pictures kinda look like these The radical right-wing militias in the U.S. aren't in control of this country. The radical Islamic terrorist organization known as Hamas, however, is about to be in charge of theirs. Your comparison is ignorant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #30 January 26, 2006 QuoteIs it really that different from the US electing Dubya? if you really don't know then there is no help good enough to teach."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #31 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteIs it really that different from the US electing Dubya? if you really don't know then there is no help good enough to teach. Wow..... It truly boggles the mind, doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #32 January 26, 2006 Quote QuoteFor the US to say it flat out won't deal with Hamas would be an excelent example of such a belief system gone awry. Yes, we have no bananas … so much for respecting an apparently democratic vote … To be fair, the articles I have been reading say US will not deal with Hamas unless they renounce terrorism and the total destruction of Israel.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #33 January 26, 2006 QuoteThe US and Isreal don't recoginize Hamas as having any legitimacy, so they are not welcome to the table to talk. Obviously a good deal of Palistinines share their views to one degree or another. Are we to just ignore the democratic process that we so viamently tout all over the world? Maybe if they were recognized and welcomed to the table they would stop resorting to suicide bombings? you have your cart before your horse. it is correct to not deal with people who support terrorism to further their goals UNTIL they come to their senses and commit to a peaceful resolution. i.e. don't reward bad behavior."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #34 January 26, 2006 This is great! America should be cheering in the street, isn't this what you went to war for? This is what our service men are dying for. Democracy in the middle east! Hamas has taken part in a democratic election and now are in a political process. A few years ago Sinn Fienn did the same and those amoung them that wanted an end to the war in NI engaged with the political process, did the IRA stop murdering people right away? No of course not, it took years (They still are but we don't hear about it now) but the bombings stopped in time. Instead of demonising Hammas it we should be looking for dialouge with those within who would rather use the ballot box than the bomb. Or have they called our bluff? Do we really want democracy or do we just want democracies that the west want to impose wether the people want those leaders or not?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #35 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteIs it really that different from the US electing Dubya? if you really don't know then there is no help good enough to teach. Wow..... It truly boggles the mind, doesn't it? yes! that is not an overstatement. it truly boggles my mind when people say things like that."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,550 #36 January 26, 2006 My hope is for a similar resolution. Not perfect, but better than things are now. And we'll never make either the Palestinians or the Israelis (or the Iraqis, Iranians, or the French ) just like us, and value things the way we do. They probably feel the same way about Americans. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 January 26, 2006 QuoteDo we really want democracy or do we just want democracies that the west want to impose wether the people want those leaders or not? God damn these uppity people who go out and vote for the party of thier choice. Dont they know when our administration says it wants democracy... it really means ONLY those democracy's that THE Administration approves of. Canada is off the hook for now... but following Pat Robertsons advice we will need to assasinate the leader of the democratic government of Venezuela... and now the Palistinians. sheesh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #38 January 26, 2006 QuoteGod damn these uppity people who go out and vote for the party of thier choice. Yes, damn the bastards that voted for Saddam, Stalin, Mao, Quaddafi... BASTARDS! That makes as much sense as calling Chavez a democratically elected leader. My advice on that subject... talk to people from the country. Then find another example. And hey, if the Palestinians want to elect Hamas and Hamas continues their ways... at least we can blame the people, right. Makes it easier for the Israelis to deal with them in defense.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #39 January 26, 2006 Quote when they last decided that the way to get him (re)elected was to conduct a spate of suicide bombings. what about homicide bombings ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #40 January 26, 2006 The Chicago Tribune headline is not QUITE correct. Here is what Bush actually said: QuoteThe United States does not support a political party that wants to destroy our ally Israel. People must renounce that part of their platform. A political party that articulates the destruction of Israel as part of its platform is a party with which we will not deal. In other words, he did not actually say that the US won't deal with Hamas. Just that they need to get rid of the whole "destruction of Israel" bit. As to the original question re. what does it mean? We gotta give the new Palestinian government a chance, because we have no other choice. If we support democracy we cant whine about it when people elect someone we don't like. The terrorists of Northern Ireland eventually calmed down. Maybe Hamas will too. They at least have to calm down somewhat, since they are now in charge with the difficult, but mundane activity of running a country. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #41 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe US and Isreal don't recoginize Hamas as having any legitimacy, so they are not welcome to the table to talk. Obviously a good deal of Palistinines share their views to one degree or another. Are we to just ignore the democratic process that we so viamently tout all over the world? Maybe if they were recognized and welcomed to the table they would stop resorting to suicide bombings? you have your cart before your horse. it is correct to not deal with people who support terrorism to further their goals UNTIL they come to their senses and commit to a peaceful resolution. i.e. don't reward bad behavior. Isn't that just a bit hypocritical? If we shouldn't reward bad behavior then how come we send so much aide and support to Isreal? Why have we played such a role in the hyperdevelopment of China if we have such a problem with bad behavior? My point is to deal in absolutes leads to very little progress. Let's define terrorism before we tell an elected entity that we are not going to deal with them: "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #42 January 26, 2006 QuoteThe terrorists of Northern Ireland eventually calmed down. Maybe Hamas will too. They at least have to calm down somewhat, since they are now in charge with the difficult, but mundane activity of running a country YEah amazing how that works.. just look at the the Irgun and Menachem Begin.. I am sure the British thought of them as terrorists with bomb attacks on the immigration offices, tax offices and police stations as well as the King David Hotel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #43 January 26, 2006 QuoteI am quite capable of seeing things through the eyes of others. I wish the situation in the middle east were resolved amicably for BOTH sides. Can you say you wish for the same? I don't want to speak for you, but your posting is too one sided to suggest you do. The Israeli's absolutely must be criticised too, there is no doubt about that, but would you ever criticise the Palestinian militant movement? I look down on any one who takes an inocent life. But going from the past no one seems to see what the Palestinians are going threw. To the Palestinian people Hamas is the only group that is willing to fight and die for them. Their government has been so corrupt that most of the aid that was for the people is sitting in some Swiss bank account Plus I don’t see to many people calling attention to the cowardly and ruthless way the Israeli government has conducted them selves in the past 50 years. They treat the Palestinians like shit, kill their children. That would be enough to bread hate in people hearts for the rest of their lives. It is easy to know nothing about what they are going threw and wonder why they don’t just chill. Try to put your self in their shoes and see how forgiving you would be to the people who are responsible for all that pain. QuoteAnd why is blowing yourself up a last resort? Why not just carry a gun to a checkpoint and start shooting soldiers? Why walk onto a bus of civilians - children and old people - and destroy and main them, when they have no chance to defend themselves? It is not the work of a person who has no resort to do anything about their situation, it is the work of someone too cowardly to go up to those who have the ability to kill them in a fair fight, and target the eminently more vulnerable and unsuspecting. It is cowardice encapsulated. So let me get this straight if I lets say stole your car and had guns and you knew if you tried to get your car back you be killed and had no chance of hurting me you would do the BRAVE thing and let me shoot you. I like how whenever you talk about the Palestinians you like to say the words cowardly. Yes the Israeli pilots who are bombing children who have no protection of any kind from there bombs they are the brave ones? Do you not see how warped your view is? QuoteYou say they "choose to die for something they believe in, they do not see it as work". This contradicts everything every prerecorded message of every suicide attacker i have ever heard goes against. They are doing this PRECISELY because they are - supposedly - carrying out the work of Allah, are they not? So you think it is possible not to believe in a god but be willing to kill your self for your gods cause. Are you drunk? That is what believing is, and to give up your life for something you believe in is the ultimate sacrifice. QuoteThink about what you are saying and go back and try to understand the nature of the problems in an unbiased light, if you can, before you comment on them; or else you will simply be led by what you hear and not what you understand. I am not the one who is mislead here. If you can’t see the Israeli government for the racists, cruel government it is then you are blind. You would think that the people who have suffered the most from racism would the ones most sympathetic but they have no problem treating the Palestinians like dogs. If you don’t believe me read some of the diaries from people who visited Palestinian not Muslims or Jews but Christians Americans, or British then tell me who are the cowardly, and who are the murderers.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #44 January 26, 2006 QuoteThe radical right-wing militias in the U.S. aren't in control of this country. The radical Islamic terrorist organization known as Hamas, however, is about to be in charge of theirs. Your comparison is ignorant. I compared pictures not movements...with a tongue in cheek....indicating that extremism is around everywhere. Some would even consider Bush to be on the extreme right of the political spectrum. In the end it was a democratic election. In the end it does show that the US doesn't care how people get in power (even though your leadership keeps talking about freedom and democracy and all those nice words) they really only care about wether they agree with their line of thinking. Further difference is that when the militia blows people up, they don't kill one of their own in the process....probably don't offer enough virgins... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #45 January 26, 2006 The argument between the Palestinians & Israelis is about who sucks less. (only difference is at least the Israelis ATTEMPT to hit the armed militants, wheras the Palestinians attempt to hit civilians. This is a major distinction in the eyes of the Western world, even though the Isrealis kill as many Palestinian civilians by collateral damage, so they're in fact not much better) my other thoughts: If the Israelis & Palestinians were little kids fighting in the back seat I would just pull over & tell 'em to STFU or they'll be spending the rest of the trip in the f&*king trunk! And I don't care who hit who first! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #46 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuotethose pictures kinda look like these The radical right-wing militias in the U.S. aren't in control of this country. The radical Islamic terrorist organization known as Hamas, however, is about to be in charge of theirs. Your comparison is ignorant. No radical right-wing Christians are in control of the US; so in a way a little more similar to Hamas, being that they do thier good work in the name of God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 January 26, 2006 QuoteIn the end it does show that the US ....... they really only care about whether they agree with their line of thinking.... Sorry for the edit, but, really, how is that different from any individual in the whole world. If it wasn't true, then there wouldn't be protest of any kind. Sad, but not unique to the "US people" even if that is a popular bash ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #48 January 26, 2006 QuoteNo radical right-wing Christians are in control of the US; Um, that's what he said!! so how is that similar to the situation among the Palestinians?? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #49 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteNo radical right-wing Christians are in control of the US; Um, that's what he said!! so how is that similar to the situation among the Palestinians?? Actually he said radical right-wing militia. It's similar in that policy is driven by religious ideology rather than by empirical investigation. Islamic extremists seek to oppress women because the Quaran/Allah says to, the religious right seeks to oppress gays because the bible says to. My point is that any time you use God to justify your hate you have a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #50 January 26, 2006 I say give them a chance..... afterall, it's not the first time that terrorists have moved into politics or that a country has grown out of acts of revolution or terrorism (depends upon you point of view). P.S got to go, Bullit is on the T.V - clasic film. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
