JohnRich 4 #1 January 23, 2006 News: Come spring, the Winchester rifle, immortalized as the gun that won the West and rode into the sunset with John Wayne, will be made in Portugal and Japan. The U.S. Repeating Arms Company, which has manufactured rifles and shotguns since 1866, is set to shut its doors on March 31. Certain models made in New Haven will be discontinued when the plant closes, but other Winchester guns will continue to be made in Japan and Portugal...Full Story: New York Times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #3 January 23, 2006 Makes me cherish my Model of 1917 30.06 even more"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenneth21441 0 #4 January 23, 2006 Just shows that any American icon is bound to move out of the USA. Where will it stop?? I can only guess as long as Americans are thinking that they are the best they can and will be under sold in cheaper labor and cost. The real cost is' is there a cost savings if the name is down graded with a lower quality product with cost overruns and re-works... Then to here American arms being in made in Japan: when firearms are outlawed or restricted in this country. Just done understand this part.Kenneth Potter FAA Senior Parachute Rigger Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA) FFL Gunsmith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 January 24, 2006 how does Japan qualify as cheaper labor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #6 January 24, 2006 Browning have had some rifles made in Japan for yonks. They do a damn fine job too. Nicely trained those Japanese workers. Highly motivated and clean too. Asian products are getting better and better though some China stuff is still of fairly rough agricultural quality. The Japanese in general have the highest hygene standards in the world bar none. Their meticulous nature is to be admired. Their past leadership is not. Once re-educated they have proven themselves as worthy allies. That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. In Oz some families and persons never recovered from fighting the beggars and many are still suffering indignities due to those actions. Still I like the rifle they made for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #7 January 24, 2006 >That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, >compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their >deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #8 January 24, 2006 Quotehow does Japan qualify as cheaper labor? Or inferior quality, for that matter. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 January 24, 2006 Quote>That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, >compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their >deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation.] I'll raise you 30 million Chinese in this rather stupid thread diversion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #10 January 24, 2006 How sad. I don't think they have made a good shotgun however since they quit the model 12. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 January 24, 2006 I'm pretty fond of my Winchester Defender. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #12 January 24, 2006 QuoteQuote>That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, >compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their >deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation.] I'll raise you 30 million Chinese in this rather stupid thread diversion. LOL! Touche´! Not to mention that if Japanese culture did not blindly follow a "divine" emperor who could do no wrong, they might not have been so imperialistic, might have been willing to say to themselves, "Hey! WTF are we doing, trying to conquer the world, aligned with a psychopathic madman who wants to kill entire peoples?!" I can't help but figure that if a country's government perpetrates genocide against entire groups -- millions of people "purged" or otherwise annihilated -- that there has to be some level of "going along with it" by the people living under that government. And so there are consequences of such complicity. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #13 January 24, 2006 in reply to "I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation. " ..................... If you believe in an 'eye for an eye.' type retribution I suppose so. I'd prefer to see them pay in hard cash.... Aussie solders are currently protecting japanese in Iraq. Apparently the disarmament of Australia and other countries in the region ( mainly through buy back ) has largely been funded with japanese money. Cruelly ironic to those who lost loved ones fighting them in WW2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #14 January 24, 2006 QuoteThe Japanese in general have the highest hygene standards in the world bar none. This cannot be said to apply to dental hygiene.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 January 24, 2006 Seems as though, since U.S. Repeating arms took-over Winchester, the company has gone down hill. The quality of the product mostly. Another sad moment in history. The Winchester won the West... now, Japan. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #16 January 24, 2006 Pre- 64 Winchester rifles were really nice, and their value is represented by very high prices today. The first big game rifle that I bouight was a Winchester model 70, 30/06, which I bought in 1968. Now this was a piece of junk (in my opinion). I didn't like the plastic butt-plate, the stamped checkering, the huge gap of a floating barrel, or the look and feel of it. It didn't shoot that great either. The quality had gone from one extreme to another. So I promptly sold it and bought a new Remington rifle. Then Winchester's craftmanshipwork seemed to improve again in the 80's & 90's and I even bought Winchester featherweight at a gun show. From the sounds of things, maybe they are headed the other way again. And yes the model 12 shotgun was a great shotgun. I murdered a ton of ducks with mine in the 60's....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 January 24, 2006 Quote>That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, >compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their >deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation. Yes, yes, everybody in the entire world owes everybody else $1. I'll pay off as soon as I get paid first. Really, ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #18 January 24, 2006 >I'd prefer to see them pay in hard cash.... I would have preferred that too. But until I get that time machine working . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #19 January 24, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, >compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their >deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation.] I'll raise you 30 million Chinese in this rather stupid thread diversion. LOL! Touche´! Not to mention that if Japanese culture did not blindly follow a "divine" emperor who could do no wrong, they might not have been so imperialistic, might have been willing to say to themselves, "Hey! WTF are we doing, trying to conquer the world, aligned with a psychopathic madman who wants to kill entire peoples?!" . - I think history shows that the Emperor was simply a figurehead for an out-of-control military hierarchy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #20 January 24, 2006 QuoteI think history shows that the Emperor was simply a figurehead for an out-of-control military hierarchy. Like gee history repeating itself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #21 January 24, 2006 in reply to"Yes, yes, everybody in the entire world owes everybody else $1. I'll pay off as soon as I get paid first. Really, " ................................... Yes REALLY! so pay up Some how because it happened in the past we all should just forgive & forget . DUR There's many examples of governments simply using and abusing their own people and then apparently siding with the enemy. This f&f attitude is real convenient for the international perpetrators and the fat cat stay at homes that benefit financially from others sacrifice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 January 24, 2006 QuoteMakes me cherish my Model of 1917 30.06 even more I hadn't thought of that - this *is* likely to raise the appraisal value of old Winchester firearms. I've got a relatively rare Winchester M1-Garand. Of the four companies that made Garands in WWII, Winchester made the fewest. Thus, they are valued higher due to scarcity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 January 24, 2006 QuoteAussie solders are currently protecting japanese in Iraq. That's interesting. Why aren't they taking care of their own defense? One of the reasons the Japanese have a business advantage, is because the U.S. provides most of their military defense, thus freeing up government funds to foster business. If they had to pay for their own military, they'd have to raise taxes and would not be nearly so spend-happy in other areas. It's high time we made them take care of their own self defense. However, we still needs a few bases there from which to fly across the pond to North Korea, if necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #24 January 24, 2006 QuoteQuoteAussie solders are currently protecting japanese in Iraq. That's interesting. Why aren't they taking care of their own defense? One of the reasons the Japanese have a business advantage, is because the U.S. provides most of their military defense, thus freeing up government funds to foster business. If they had to pay for their own military, they'd have to raise taxes and would not be nearly so spend-happy in other areas. It's high time we made them take care of their own self defense. However, we still needs a few bases there from which to fly across the pond to North Korea, if necessary. Well, that's the deal the US made. We get bases, they get protection. In WWII it was bases for obsolete destroyers. A deal's a deal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #25 January 24, 2006 Japan is consitutionally unable to have an army (it's a Self-Defence Force), or to engage in offensive activities. It was the USA that forced this into the Japanese constitution after WWII. Understandably, in my opinion. However, the flip side of this was that they needed protection. After all, most of their near neighbours didn't like them very much after the excesses of the Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. If you don't like it, give up Okinawa. You can't have your cake and eat it . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
