sundevil777 102 #51 January 24, 2006 When I toured the Cadillac factory at hamtramck, Michigan, I could not believe what I saw. I had just finished my 2 weeks on the Honda factory floor putting instrument panels together for the '96 Accord (in Marysville, Ohio with a lot of other Americans), so I had a pretty good idea of what working hard was. The cadillac workers were smoking while installing interior parts. They had an extraordinary amount of time to do their jobs. The tour guide tried to convince us of how efficient and hard working they were, but I knew better.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #52 January 25, 2006 QuoteThey had an extraordinary amount of time to do their jobs. The tour guide tried to convince us of how efficient and hard working they were, but I knew better. from another thread, these poor, sad workers are being exploited by crooked CEO's that negotiated golden parachutes ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #53 January 27, 2006 So Ford's highly paid executives made some very bad decisions about product mix and as a result the company loses $billions. Said executives then cut the jobs of thousands of workers who were not responsible for the bad decisions, and said executives get to keep their jobs and bonuses. That is not my idea of capitalism.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #54 January 27, 2006 QuoteSo Ford's highly paid executives made some very bad decisions about product mix and as a result the company loses $billions. Said executives then cut the jobs of thousands of workers who were not responsible for the bad decisions, and said executives get to keep their jobs and bonuses. That is not my idea of capitalism. What is your idea of capitalism? Are you advocating laws that would prevent management from cutting jobs if they make bad decisions, maybe a law that would fire management instead? In a capitalist system, management is free to make bad decisions, and the lower level workers will suffer, that is true. If you can think of a system that prevents that, I don't think it will be capitalist. The job of the low level worker is usually to make results for the company now, the job of the higher level worker is usually to make results possible for the company in the future. Both sides are free to fail at their job. This probably sounds surprising coming from a conservative, but I would support laws that would moderate the short term thinking that is so common within the management of publicly held companies. I think this short term thinking is a result of the very fast 'turnover' in the stock ownership of many companies. I don't know what would be the best way to do it, perhaps a minimum ownership period for large purchases of stock.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #55 January 27, 2006 I wonder, when the Chinese economy overtakes the US, does that mean communism is better than capitalism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #56 January 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo Ford's highly paid executives made some very bad decisions about product mix and as a result the company loses $billions. Said executives then cut the jobs of thousands of workers who were not responsible for the bad decisions, and said executives get to keep their jobs and bonuses. That is not my idea of capitalism. What is your idea of capitalism? Are you advocating laws that would prevent management from cutting jobs if they make bad decisions, maybe a law that would fire management instead? In a capitalist system, management is free to make bad decisions, and the lower level workers will suffer, that is true. If you can think of a system that prevents that, I don't think it will be capitalist. The job of the low level worker is usually to make results for the company now, the job of the higher level worker is usually to make results possible for the company in the future. Both sides are free to fail at their job. This probably sounds surprising coming from a conservative, but I would support laws that would moderate the short term thinking that is so common within the management of publicly held companies. I think this short term thinking is a result of the very fast 'turnover' in the stock ownership of many companies. I don't know what would be the best way to do it, perhaps a minimum ownership period for large purchases of stock. If the system really worked as advertized, the management team responsible for the losses would be thrown out by the stockholders WITHOUT their golden parachutes. Capitalism don't work if the stockholders do sweet FA about mismanagement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #57 January 27, 2006 QuoteI wonder, when the Chinese economy overtakes the US, does that mean communism is better than capitalism? How would you measure the 'goodness/betterness' of an economy. If you can show a communist economy/country that has experienced good results in modern history, please remind us.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #58 January 27, 2006 QuoteIf the system really worked as advertized, the management team responsible for the losses would be thrown out by the stockholders WITHOUT their golden parachutes. Capitalism don't work if the stockholders do sweet FA about mismanagement. Stockholders don't have to care about worker's at a company. All they need to care about is stock value. To get rid of this, you don't have to scrap capitalism all together, just the current system that allows anyone to own and sell a tiny share of a company at any time. I would prefer that publicly owned companies did everything they could to have as much of the stock held by employees as possible. I think this would reduce the volatility of the stock as they are less likely to sell, and encourage long term thinking by management. Laws that encourage this are possible, I think.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #59 January 27, 2006 QuoteI wonder, when the Chinese economy overtakes the US, does that mean communism is better than capitalism? Good question -- I wonder what a dissenting Chinese citizen's opinion would be? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #60 January 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder, when the Chinese economy overtakes the US, does that mean communism is better than capitalism? Good question -- I wonder what a dissenting Chinese citizen's opinion would be? it would be "ouch, this tank is really heavy." "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
