Ford makes the cuts

[quade 4]

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What ever happened to the term "Build Better, Build Union" Maybe the Union is part of the problem. When a large percentage of your operating cost is Benefits, it can be very difficult to compete with foreign markets, on top of that building crappy cars.

What ever happened to one person (usually the man) working for a wage that would support a family?

What happened was goods and services from countries where the same labor costs don't apply. This creates the -illusion- that Union labor is too expensive, when in reality it's competing against people that simply aren't playing by the same rules.

Globalism isn't playing on a level playing field and we're screwing the average joe.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rwieder 0]

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How many people do you know whom have bought an oversize truck and only use it for the drive to work and back.

I just bought a 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe LTZ Saturday. I purchased a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton LT Crew Cab Pickup 6 months ago, and last but not least a 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 3 months ago. All of which are well made by Americans, in plants built in America, by Americans, and sold in Car Dealerships that were built in America, and owned by Americans. And all of the vehichles i traded in were Chevrolets as well.

See where i'm going with this?

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Buy a Honda, it is more American than you think.

I don't agree with this statement.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[kelpdiver 2]

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Your missing the point i'm trying to make. Yeah, they're working for a foriegn car company. All they will ever have is a paycheck. A foreign car company will hardly do anything to help bolster "Made In America" by americans, but it's a foreign brand car. When do you think the Germans will build a Porsche factory. Italians build a Lamborgini factory?

The Big 3 have been opening up factories in Mexico. I'm not seeing much of a difference between getting a paycheck from Ford or from Honda. The profits go to different stockholders, sure.

It seems that the cost in shipping cars has convinced foreign makes that it's more practical to build high selling models here. There is still an issue of customer bias though - you hear of people wanting to get a Japanese model instead of the local one. That's a sad reputation we've developed, that we ourselves don't trust us to make a car.

Despite Ford suffering from betting the farm on SUVs too long, they still apparently have another Excursion Valdes type model coming out. Maybe we should indict their leadership for treason.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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> Maybe the Union is part of the problem.

union is a huge part of the problem. its not the wages or the benifits as much as its the union way. during four years of working union jobs, i saw more people sitting on their asses than i've ever seen in my life. a union job usually has 2 to 3 people for every one person worth of work. just one example, it was very common to show up on a job site and have the entire crew (anywhere from 6-40something people depending on the job) sit and do nothing for 24-48 hours waiting on electrician to change the plugs on our equipment to fit the site's outlets. while i can agree that from what i've seen, union members are usually better and more trained when it comes to their trade, but in a typical work day, they get less work done. union also have the worst case of "us against them" that i've ever seen. "us" being the workers and "them" being management. now, "us" is winning. the problem is that "us" won't have a place to work without "them".

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[freethefly 6]

I se where you're going. Should had waited on that Tahoe. In a few months you might be able to get it at liquidation price. Serious, take a look at the parts and the "made in stamp". Chevy as "Hecho en Mexico" all over them. Not very "American" are they. Most cars are only asembled in america. Big difference to being "made in america"
By the way, I own a 57 Chevy 2 door sedan that was built on N. Broadway in St. Louis at a time when cars were actually "made in America". Not sure if I can say the same for my 80 El Camino SS. But I love her just the same.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rwieder 0]

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In a few months you might be able to get it at liquidation price.

I lease the things anyway, i never buy them. And i don't pay anymore than i want to.

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Serious, take a look at the parts and the "made in stamp". Chevy as "Hecho en Mexico" all over them. Not very "American" are they. Most cars are only asembled in america. Big difference to being "made in america"

O.K. ya had me there for a moment. My wife just got home. I crawled in, around and under the Tahoe, it says "Made In USA By Americans" all over it. It was built in Arlington, Texas. The Vette was made in Bowling Green Kentucky, and the truck was made in Arlington, Texas as well.

What this tells me, is that automobile manufacturer's are more cognicant of the fact that Americans want "American Made...By Americans" Look what happened to John DeLorean when he went to Ireland to build his cars, if he would just have stayed home, who knows?

Additional Text:
Don't get me wrong, i'm all about free trade as long as it's not one sided. In the case of the Japaneze, it's most definitely one-sided.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[quade 4]

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Look what happened to John DeLorean when he went to Ireland to build his cars, if he would just have stayed home, who knows?

Or is he hadn't seen "Goldfinger" and tried to become "Cokefinger".

Remember, a piece of his undoing was him smuggling cocaine in his cars.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[freethefly 6]

http://www.gm.com/company/corp_info/global_operations/north_america/mexi.html
Link to GM's own website
Read it and weep.

Grant you that your Tahoe may be assembled here in the US, but a large number of parts come from a plant in Mexico. Your Silverado, built in Mexico, sorry. Your Corvette, mostly American, yet a number of parts come from Mexico. I would actually cry if they did close the Bowling Green plant as all hope would no doubt be lost if Corvettes were built anywhere but here.

Also from GM's website. Arlington does not build Silverados. They build SUVs

The 250-acre Arlington plant site, originally designed to assemble aircraft and automobiles, has been expanded seven times since launching operations in 1954 with nearly 600 employees on one shift. In 2003, Arlington produced more than 238,000 vehicles with an employee population of approximately 3,000 on two shifts. GM Arlington produces a variety of full-size sport utility vehicles -- the GMC Yukon, GMC Yukon XL, Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Tahoe, and Cadillac Escalade.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rwieder 0]

It's actually no point of litigation for me. Unless they're forging the sticky tabs and stickers themselves, the vehichles were made where they are stated they are made. In fact, an ironic point, GM is advertising in Television Commercials how the new Tahoe is being made in the Arlington Plant, not only by Americans, but by Texans. So take from that what you will. I guess if their liars, they're liars?

Again, the arguement is foreign manufacturers building plants on American soil, and selling their product to Americans after having Americans build their product for them and having the majority of share holders living elsewhere than in the US of A.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[justinb138 0]

There is a difference between made in the USA, and assembled in the USA.

[sundevil777 102]

Is a Chrysler or Dodge an American vehicle?

It is owned by the Germans.

What is the difference between that and Honda of America?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[freethefly 6]

Actually if read the last part of my last post it does say the Tahoe is built in Arlington. I myself am a Chevy Man. First car was a 68 RS camaro in 1976. My current cars are a 1980 Elky SS and my beloved sweety a 57 Belair 2 door post.
As it goes with foreign interest in the US, a lot of towns are happy to have them. GM, Ford and Dodge have been shifting their ops to Mexico for cheaper labor for higher profit since the 70's. It really has little to do with the union wage as it had more to do with corporate greed. The corporate decision of the past is what is hurting them today. Also the tariffs applied during the eighties is what also brought foreign automakers to build plants here as it is cheaper to ship in parts and assemble the car right here than to pay the tariff on an already assembled car shipped in. Blame it on corporate and government. You can invest in these very companies as they do very well. If you want to really complain, take a walk through Walmart as more than 90% of the items sold there are made in China. Also note that no TV's are built in the US. No cameras nor DVC's. A large number of items that Americans were proud to build have long ago left the shores for foreign destinations only to return to be bought by you and me and the rest of us. Walk through your house and look at labels. America has long lost the edge as being number one in manufacturing. Even Harley Davidson, and I rode HD for more than 20 years. I emblazoned Harly in ink across my back. The majority of HD parts are foreign. All harley front ends come from Japan. All Harley chrome come from Tiawan. HD electrics, Japan. Face it, this is not the 1957 that built my 57chevy. Those days are long gone. What a damn shame. Most kids today go goo goo ga ga over a reved up Nissan. I come from the days of American pride in the cars we owned. As a kid in the 60's and early 70's we spent a lot of time at the drags where it was all american muscle. On my streets as a teenager in the 70's it was heavy horse power chevy's and mopars. Today I cringed when some kid pulled up along side me in a accord with a stinger tailpipe and a whaletail spoiler. Just to sad to think about it.
The pic is me, my brother and my old buddy standing in back of my dads old digger at Fresno Dragway. Now that's American!!!

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[craddock 0]

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It's actually no point of litigation for me. Unless they're forging the sticky tabs and stickers themselves, the vehichles were made where they are stated they are made. In fact, an ironic point, GM is advertising in Television Commercials how the new Tahoe is being made in the Arlington Plant, not only by Americans, but by Texans. So take from that what you will. I guess if their liars, they're liars?

What does the VIN start with? My Silverado is made in Mexico while my F150 XLT is made in the US. Does the VIN start with a 1,2, or 3?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[TrophyHusband 0]

i want to play. my f-150 vin starts with a 1, what does that mean?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[craddock 0]

Assembled in a US plant

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[freethefly 6]

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i want to play. my f-150 vin starts with a 1, what does that mean?

It means you should had bought a chevy .

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Cutting jobs will not keep them in business. It will only provide a temporary reprieve. Making products people want to buy will be their only salvation.

Good point.

As far as I am concerned, Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, and Dodge(ChryslerJeep) all make SHITTY products.

They are cheap, chintzy, and designed to last only so long and then turn to garbage. The feel of their parts, like light and climate control switches, door handles, locks, all feel like cheap plastic junk. They are full of "look-good, do-nothing" frills, like fake spoilers, fake fairings, fake "inlets"...

If they would make stuff quality, and stop trying to fool us into thinking that things that look functional are just as good as actually functional things, their products might be worth buying. Instead, it seems quite clear that these companies' entire philosophy has nothing to do with delivering an actually good product, and everything to do with just trying to get something sold for more than it cost to make.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[TrophyHusband 0]

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i want to play. my f-150 vin starts with a 1, what does that mean?

It means you should had bought a chevy .

i looked at chevy, but they wanted more money for the same amount of truck.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[kallend 2,150]

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How many people do you know whom have bought an oversize truck and only use it for the drive to work and back.

I just bought a 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe LTZ Saturday. I purchased a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton LT Crew Cab Pickup 6 months ago, and last but not least a 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 3 months ago. All of which are well made by Americans, in plants built in America, by Americans, and sold in Car Dealerships that were built in America, and owned by Americans. And all of the vehichles i traded in were Chevrolets as well.

See where i'm going with this?
.

Last Chevy I bought was assembled in Canada and most of the parts came from Mexico. It was a piece of junk, too, which is why I never bought another Chevy.

(Of course, Canada and Mexico are in America, and their citizens are Americans)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

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Funny thing is my Acura TL is made in the US by Americans and has more American parts in it than my Ford Expedition. Go figure.

I drive a Toyota Tundra, and the same is true when compared to the F-series trucks my co-workers drive...you know, the same co-workers who give me grief about not buying American.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rehmwa 2]

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(Of course, Canada and Mexico are in America, and their citizens are Americans)

Implied northern hemisphere bias. We are not pleased.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Clownburner 0]

Have you read the terms?

Under the terms of the contract with the UAW, Ford has to 'idle' their plants - they can't sell them off - until the contract expires at the end of 2007. In the meantime, all UAW (hourly) workers at those plants collect full benefits and 90% of their pay, but don't have to show up to work. The estimate I heard is that amounts to about $60/hour per employee once you add in the extremely generous benefits. After that, they are still eligable for retraining reimbursement and pensions.

How do I get a deal like that?

The union contract is what's killing american automakers more than anything.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[freethefly 6]

Good deal, I actually prefer ford truck over all other but prefer chevy cars over all other also. I comprimised and bought an El Camino. Love those Elky's

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[PhreeZone 20]

Final assembly is in the US for a lot of cars, but look at the % of domestic parts vs foreign parts. Consistantly I was finding that Honda's had more domestic parts then Fords. Ford and Chevy import the vast majority of the inside of a car and most the engine partts. Assembly is done by someone that makes 20-25 an hour plus benifits that lt least double that to put their 5 bolts on every 3 minutes as the frame passes their station. And this is from the kid of a 30 year UAW employee whos taken many factory tours and listed to the inside stories about Ford and General Dynamics so I know how much waste they have.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[PhreeZone 20]

Here's a secret, at least one plant has already had a large number of their people at idle since spring. Catch is they have to check in every day (or have someone check them in). I know of 1 person that started a used car dealership while drawing a salery, another that built a new house, yet another that built rental units all summer and is making more money off those then off their base salery. If this plant is not on the list to close I'll lose all faith in Ford ever recovering.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com