kallend 2,114
nerd137 0
QuoteI have numerous black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends...
Yeah, ok.
rehmwa 2
QuoteQuoteI have numerous black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends...
Yeah, ok.
I've always wondered, how do you say that, without "saying" that. If you know what I mean.
It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction compared to the days that Kallend seems stuck in. And I'd also say it's a step farther than that attitude, also.
As for PJs rants, I think the key takeaway there was that we see the angry racial bias is more of an education demographic than a race based demographic. But who's exploiting that attitude today?
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteQuoteI have numerous black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends...
Yeah, ok.
I've always wondered, how do you say that, without "saying" that. If you know what I mean.
It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction compared to the days that Kallend seems stuck in. And I'd also say it's a step farther than that attitude, also.
As for PJs rants, I think the key takeaway there was that we see the angry racial bias is more of an education demographic than a race based demographic. But who's exploiting that attitude today?
The difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were, whereas PJ thinks they are ancient history and just an abstraction.
Its just 40 years since a USA state governor declared "Segregation forever" to cheering crowds.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteThe difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were,
40 years is 2 generations
Which gives you a horrible perspective on the context of today because you still think today = "those times that had such an emotional impact on you"
When you should be using those experiences as a guiding example of what to avoid. Not using those examples to try to judge people that were born after those times.
Like it or not, the context of the times is the 2000's, not the 50's or the 60's. All the people are different and the issues are more subtle. Even if that puts you out of your comfort zone.
Ask your bias questions of your white and minority students (educated, well off, raised in suburbia). You'll see a much different percentage of people claiming the bias than if you polled the same number people 40 years ago. And the issues will be much subtler. You'll also see white kids claiming the same weaker biases that everyone else is bringing up.
People complain about being watched when they go out. Their grampa complained about getting beat up all the time. Their great grampa didn't complain at all, he was just killed out of hand. People complain about not getting preferential treatment in job interviews. Their dad complained about not getting equal treatment, their grampa didn't get an interview at all.
Your perspective is outdated. You think everybody is still the grampa. (Or, you position this way because it's a more lot fun to oversimplify it and argue from the stock white guy outraged self righteous PC position)
That said, I think PJ can be outraged at discrimination all he wants like anyone else, but it's still about the same nits of today that anyone is griping about. And nobody's examples of today stacks up to what the grampa's went through.
I'm younger, I went through college in the late '80's. My personal experience is that the Asian students got treated worse than any other ethnic by far, and by all the students and profs. So I'm a bit put off that all the discussions are just black/white, rather than parity for all discussions.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteThe difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were,
40 years is 2 generations
.
40 years is half a lifetime. It's short term memory that goes, not long term memory
The outcomes of Jim Crow did not end with the Civil Rights Acts of the '60s. We are still in the transient, and will be for some time. You're an engineer, you understand transients and time constants.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteYou're an engineer, you understand transients and time constants.
I was an engineer. Now I'm a program manager. That means I don't understand anything that doesn't fit on a presentation slide or schedule.
Big Pictures, Small words -
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
eflynn 0
I always say I'm not going to get involved but it's difficult to sit by and not contribute.
Per the game analogy, the notion of it simply restarting with the next generation simply isn't true. The opportunities afforded or denied to the people who "played before you" do have an effect on where you begin and how well you do. It's never a "new game;" It simply continues with the next group of players. Where you start AND what happened before you doesn't solely determine where you finish but it does play a role.
Whether institutional racism is now criminalized really doesn't have as much of an effect as most people would like to think it does. It makes it difficult for people to say "I'm not hiring you because you're black" or white or asian but it doesn't change how peoplel feel or think.
Per the game analogy, the notion of it simply restarting with the next generation simply isn't true. The opportunities afforded or denied to the people who "played before you" do have an effect on where you begin and how well you do. It's never a "new game;" It simply continues with the next group of players. Where you start AND what happened before you doesn't solely determine where you finish but it does play a role.
Whether institutional racism is now criminalized really doesn't have as much of an effect as most people would like to think it does. It makes it difficult for people to say "I'm not hiring you because you're black" or white or asian but it doesn't change how peoplel feel or think.
juanesky 0
QuoteQuoteHey, you're totally free to base your ethnicity on skin color all you want. If you enjoy racism, then this is the mode of thinking for you. But personally I think it's an unenlightened thing, no matter which "color" thinks that way.
How, exactly, is that a racist perspective?
I assume from the news that clearly singled out the victims of Katrina, as targets for the storm.
Instead of reality, that poor people were hit harder, as they were unable to evacuate on time.
It happens all the time, and AL-Jessie duo are professionals at distorting reality and claiming is a civil liberties issue.
Kallend, why am I not surprised?
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteQuoteHey, you're totally free to base your ethnicity on skin color all you want. If you enjoy racism, then this is the mode of thinking for you. But personally I think it's an unenlightened thing, no matter which "color" thinks that way.
How, exactly, is that a racist perspective?
I assume from the news that clearly singled out the victims of Katrina, as targets for the storm.
It happens all the time, and AL-Jessie duo are professionals at distorting reality and claiming is a civil liberties issue.
Kallend, why am I not surprised?
Those who are still wet behind the ears need to be reminded of Alabama Governor George Wallace's 1963 speech in which he said "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever".
The bed wetting conservatives believe, and the cynical conservatives pretend, that the attitudes represented in that speech magically disappeared with the passage of the Civil Rights Acts. I've got news for them, it didn't, it just went underground and we even see it here in the form of whining whenever a minority gets even the smallest break.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
skydyvr 0
QuoteThe difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were . . .
But that was then, and this is now. Time to move on.
. . =(_8^(1)
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteThe difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were . . .
But that was then, and this is now. Time to move on.
"Those who do not learn the lessons of history..."
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteHey Jeffrey, when was the last time you were refused admission to a restaurant for being white? When was the last time a member of your family was lynched? When did you last have to sit at the back of a bus on account of your skin color? When was the last time you were denied permission to register to vote on account of being white? Who was the last member of your family to be a slave?
You sure know how to whine about racism.
When was the last time any black person I know personally had any of that happen to him/her, for that matter?
Are black people still denied the right to register to vote, by law? Are they legally allowed to be made into slaves? Lynched? Kept out of restaurants?
These things may have happened in the PAST, but they are officially ILLEGAL and if anyone does them they risk serious repercussions.
I don't believe for a minute that it is happening in any real sense anymore. An isolate case or two of individuals being assholes to black people is not the same as government-sanctioned, legal racism and bigotry.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe difference is that I remember the old days and how awful they were . . .
But that was then, and this is now. Time to move on.
"Those who do not learn the lessons of history..."
No one said "forget the lessons," dude. They said don't pretend that things that were legally rectified are still entrenched legal doctrine and practice.
I'll leave you with this:
Former NRA President Charlton Heston actually marched with Martin Luther King Jr. for civil rights.
Actually marched with him.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
QuoteQuoteI have numerous black friends, asian friends, hispanic friends...
Yeah, ok.
What the fuck, dude? You actually calling me a LIAR?
Too bad I'd get banned if I told you where to stick that accusation. Where the fuck do you get off? Do you want me to have my asian, black and hispanic friends CALL you? Give me your fuckin' phone number, then.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
Amazon 7
QuoteI don't believe for a minute that it is happening in any real sense anymore. An isolate case or two of individuals being assholes to black people is not the same as government-sanctioned, legal racism and bigotry.
You can choose to believe what you will BUT it is still happening.It may not be systemic now.. but there are PLENTY of people still perpetrating hate crimes.
http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/texaskill.html
Oh and for some statistics in your own state of FL... check out page 12 in this report
190 motivated by race alone.
http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/MRAY-6KHHZP/$file/2004HateCrimesReport.pdf
Page 15..... Palm Beach County has the 4rd highest number in the state behind Alachua (Gainsville) then Broward (Ft Lauderdale)... then Hillsboro ( Tampa) ....hmmmmmmm
QuoteQuoteI don't believe for a minute that it is happening in any real sense anymore. An isolate case or two of individuals being assholes to black people is not the same as government-sanctioned, legal racism and bigotry.
You can choose to believe what you will BUT it is still happening.It may not be systemic now.. but there are PLENTY of people still perpetrating hate crimes.
Oh, you're talking about HATE crimes. I thought those were just ordinary crimes perpetrated as a direct result of hating the person's "group."
Discrimination is THE crime we're talking about. Not allowing someone into a restaurant. Not allowing them to vote. Not allowing them to live in a certain neighborhood.
A "hate crime" is a regular crime with a bigoted motivation. (It's also the criminalization of THOUGHT, but that's another thread altogether.)
Since you admit that, because bigoted discrimination is banned by law across the board, it is NOT SYSTEMIC, I see nothing else that the government should be obligated to do apart from prosecute anyone who now breaks the anti-discrimination laws.
And if the crime is a murder or other attack, we don't even NEED anything about discrimination or hate to prosecute the attacker. There are already laws against harming others.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
Amazon 7
Quotebecause bigoted discrimination is banned by law across the board, it is NOT SYSTEMIC
Its still all the rage.. to discriminate LEGALLY against gay people.... and what was it.. 37 states passed laws stating it was completely legal to discriminate against gay people to get married.. in just the last election.
Lucky you.
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Hey Jeffrey, when was the last time you were refused admission to a restaurant for being white? When was the last time a member of your family was lynched? When did you last have to sit at the back of a bus on account of your skin color? When was the last time you were denied permission to register to vote on account of being white? Who was the last member of your family to be a slave?
You sure know how to whine about racism.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.