peacefuljeffrey 0 #51 January 27, 2006 QuoteUm, HELLO....the souce is BET, not WET. The entire point of BET's existence is to bring news/entertainment/etc about black people to black people. Hmmm... So then, are white folks unwelcome to watch BET? Seems to me that if the black community really feels it is a different sect of society, with isolationist and color-specific needs, maybe separate water fountains and bathrooms were the right idea... I mean, do they want SEPARATE, or do they want EQUAL; and do they want us TO make decisions based on their color, do they want us NOT TO make decisions based on their color. It really seems clear that they feel entitled to make decisions about themselves and white people based on color, but that white people may not do the same. They claim to be a minority. Sure they are -- in the population of the U.S. overall. But should they lose "minority" status (and privileges and protections) in places where they are the majority -- like New Orleans, D.C., etc.? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #52 January 27, 2006 QuoteEver notice there is no "WET"? Hmmm, I wonder what the original story would sound like if it was written in the same manner for White Entertainment Television:Global Warming Could Spell Disaster for Whites If you thought Hurricane Katrina was a once-in-a-lifetime fluke, think again. Concerned environmentalists say that unless the United States gets real about the threat of global warming, White Americans and other non-black people can expect a repeat of disasters like Katrina. Environmentalists blame the fierce new storms on global warming... That’s bad news, especially for White Americans. Citing Katrina as a case-in-point, some environmentalists say global warming impacts whites and the wealthy harder than other groups. If global warming gets worse, many White-American communities will be more vulnerable to breathing ailments, insect-carried diseases and heat-related illness and death. Relatively, Whites are environmental Good Samaritans. Per capita, we emit approximately 20 percent less carbon dioxide than Blacks. Not only are we the largest segment of purchasers of energy-conserving automobiles, we also spend considerably more per capita on energy-saving goods and services. Yet Whites are exposed to the same air pollution as Blacks in every major metropolitan area.Wow! Imagine the furor that such a biased article would raise! Jesse and Al would be all over it like flies on shit. But when it's done in exactly the same manner for blacks - not a peep in protest from anyone... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #53 January 27, 2006 QuoteWow! Imagine the furor that such a biased article would raise! Jesse and Al would be all over it like flies on shit. But when it's done in exactly the same manner for blacks - not a peep in protest from anyone... Yes, socially accepted black racism has become a giant elephant in America's living room. Just as we need to continue diversity in the workplace programs, educational opportunities, and other cultural improvement efforts for the benefit of black folks (all of which are being done and are working), we also need to get away from BET and other race-centered media. Like PJ said, we're either working FOR equality or we're NOT. Which is it? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerd137 0 #54 January 30, 2006 QuoteHmmm... So then, are white folks unwelcome to watch BET? Did I say that? Quoteeverything else you said You seem to have very strong opinions on racial matters...and exhibit a lot of racial resentment towards blacks. You should pick up a few books and try to learn about why black folks feel the way they do. You may not agree with some black perspectives, but understanding may ease your sense of frustration. At a minimum, you'll quickly realize that blacks don't all think alike...many feel just as you do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerd137 0 #55 January 30, 2006 QuoteJesse and Al would be all over it like flies on shit. But when it's done in exactly the same manner for blacks - not a peep in protest from anyone... You *sure* 'bout that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerd137 0 #56 January 30, 2006 Quote..we also need to get away from BET and other race-centered media... How come? What harm is coming from race-based media? Would it be better if it was "ethnic-centered"? What's so negative about reinforcing a racial/cultural identity? Whites do the same thing...it's just not explicit in the way it is for racial/ethnic minorities. Just think about how many magazines or TV shows are catered to white audiences in the same way that black shows/magazines are catered to a black audiences. I can't say I understand why racial/ethnic/cultural differences gets people so upset. EDIT: What about gender-based TV and magazines? Are those, too, bad things? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #57 January 30, 2006 Tell us, had you been in charge in the '60s and '70s what YOUR solution would have been to 200+ years of slavery followed by 100 years of discrimination, second class citizenship and 3rd rate schools. What would YOU have proposed?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #58 January 30, 2006 QuoteWhat harm is coming from race-based media? Diversity offers a wealth of benefits to society, business, and the individual. Race-based media doesn't promote diversity very well. It divides us by color, which is actually an inadequate indicator of ethnicity. QuoteWould it be better if it was "ethnic-centered"? I think so. But remember, each human being has ethnicity, and skin color is generally a small identifier of that ethnicity. Want to have an african station, a spanish station, or a british station? Fine, but why have a "black" station. Doesn't make sense to me. QuoteWhites do the same thing...it's just not explicit in the way it is for racial/ethnic minorities. Why should it be different between whites and blacks? Who's on the right track -- whites who don't trumpet their skin color from the rooftops, or blacks who do? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #59 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuote..we also need to get away from BET and other race-centered media... How come? What harm is coming from race-based media? You mean besides continuing to divide people along racial lines, preventing them from thinking of each other simply as other people? There is no good to come out of perpetuating racial divisions, which is what all this attention to racial identity accomplishes. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #60 January 30, 2006 Quote Tell us, had you been in charge in the '60s and '70s what YOUR solution would have been to 200+ years of slavery followed by 100 years of discrimination, second class citizenship and 3rd rate schools. What would YOU have proposed? What does this question have to do with the problems I identified in the post to which you refer? And are my comments to be held as valid ONLY if have in mind a viable solution to the world's racial ills?! You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, don't you? After all, NO ONE has that solution. Yet you are acting as though my comments hold no water unless I have the answer to it all... --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #61 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuote Tell us, had you been in charge in the '60s and '70s what YOUR solution would have been to 200+ years of slavery followed by 100 years of discrimination, second class citizenship and 3rd rate schools. What would YOU have proposed? What does this question have to do with the problems I identified in the post to which you refer? And are my comments to be held as valid ONLY if have in mind a viable solution to the world's racial ills?! You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, don't you? After all, NO ONE has that solution. Yet you are acting as though my comments hold no water unless I have the answer to it all... - You argue so vehemently against the solutions that came out of the '60s, I just wonder what YOU would have done differently. I assume that you weren't around before the civil rights movement, so you have no actual first hand experience of REAL racism in action.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerd137 0 #62 January 30, 2006 Quotewhat you said Actually, if you think about it, 'black' is an ethnicity. I don't see a black station differently that I do a Spanish one. I agree that color/race can be a poor indicator of ethnic lines, but I also think that race, color, ethnicity, and culture (along with gender and sexuality) are very intertwined indentifiers that cannot be so easily seperated from one another. QuoteWhy should it be different between whites and blacks? Who's on the right track -- whites who don't trumpet their skin color from the rooftops, or blacks who do? Why? Because whites and blacks are different peoples. (Not a bad thing! No worse that the fact that my brother and I are different people.) Who's on the right track? That's a toughy. But in my opinion talking about race explicitly versus implicitly is irrelevant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerd137 0 #63 January 30, 2006 QuoteYou mean besides continuing to divide people along racial lines, preventing them from thinking of each other simply as other people? You really think race-based media has this effect? What makes you say/think that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #64 January 30, 2006 QuoteI assume that you weren't around before the civil rights movement, so you have no actual first hand experience of REAL racism in action. Interesting, do you say that to everyone of that age or younger regardless of race? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #65 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteI assume that you weren't around before the civil rights movement, so you have no actual first hand experience of REAL racism in action. Interesting, do you say that to everyone of that age or younger regardless of race? Well, I'd be interested to know how many of the angry young white folks writing here have ever been made to sit at the back of a bus, refused admission to a restaurant or movie theater, or have been lynched based solely on their race. Having to deal with an entertainment channel targetted at one race seems a minor inconvenience by comparison, but it sure generates a lot of anger.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #66 January 30, 2006 Quote Having to deal with an entertainment channel targetted at one race seems a minor inconvenience by comparison, but it sure generates a lot of anger. Nicely put. Puts a lot into perspective for the gripes all angry young 'people' today (regardless of race), when compared to what even our last couple of generations had to deal with. But my question was, do you say that to angry young black men too? I wouldn't fault you for it, but if you are going to make the "sonny, in MY day speech" I just wondered if you were discriminating in your application of it on this topic. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #67 January 30, 2006 Quotehave been lynched . RON was physically abused in precisely that way. And he was chastised for bringing it up and blamed for it on these boards. What makes you think anyone would volunteer their own experiences today on these boards after that example? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #68 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuote Having to deal with an entertainment channel targetted at one race seems a minor inconvenience by comparison, but it sure generates a lot of anger. Nicely put. Puts a lot into perspective for the gripes all angry young 'people' today (regardless of race), when compared to what even our last couple of generations had to deal with. But my question was, do you say that to angry young black men too? I wouldn't fault you for it, but if you are going to make the "sonny, in MY day speech" I just wondered if you were discriminating in your application of it on this topic. I see very few young black men with as much anger apparent as, say, peacefuljeffrey exhibits in his posts here. But most of the young men I see these days are engineering students who tend not to get very emotional anyway. If you are down 100 -0 in a ball game because the other side cheated and the referee was biased, putting in a fair referee and stopping the cheating all by itself doesn't fix the inequality in score. There's always a penalty assessed too, and the perpetrators are likely to whine about it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #69 January 30, 2006 QuoteI see very few young black men with as much anger apparent as, say, peacefuljeffrey exhibits in his posts here Master of understatement, and not just young black men. PJ is ... "vigorous" ... in his opinions. My question, do you tell young black men that they are too young to understand racism because they aren't old enough to know what it "really" means? Because I'd agree. I'd say age and biased memory is a bigger contribution to racism than skin pigment. Those young 'unemotional' engineering students may surprise you with their passions if you promise not to stereotype them.......... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #70 January 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteI see very few young black men with as much anger apparent as, say, peacefuljeffrey exhibits in his posts here Master of understatement, and not just young black men. PJ is ... "vigorous" ... in his opinions. My question, do you tell young black men that they are too young to understand racism because they aren't old enough to know what it "really" means? If I encountered an angry one I would. By and large the angry young men I meet are white.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #71 January 30, 2006 QuoteIf I encountered an angry one I would. By and large the angry young men I meet are white. I suspect you are also exposed to more whites than blacks and the angry ones stand out in your memory. By and large, most young men I meet are angry about one thing or the other. Usually about young women. Thanks for the answer. It emphasises that ALL people need to be calm or they'll be taken much less seriously by thinking men. It's a one to be respected. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #72 January 31, 2006 QuoteActually, if you think about it, 'black' is an ethnicity. I don't see a black station differently that I do a Spanish one. Hey, you're totally free to base your ethnicity on skin color all you want. If you enjoy racism, then this is the mode of thinking for you. But personally I think it's an unenlightened thing, no matter which "color" thinks that way. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #73 January 31, 2006 QuoteIf you are down 100 -0 in a ball game because the other side cheated and the referee was biased, putting in a fair referee and stopping the cheating all by itself doesn't fix the inequality in score. There's always a penalty assessed too, and the perpetrators are likely to whine about it. That is a terrible analogy. At least in a game it is clear who deserves a penalty and who deserves the benefit. So, who deserves a benefit? Should a recent black immigrant from another country get the benefit? Should a recent white immigrant from another country get the penalty? Should a wealthy black person get the benefit? Is it enough to allow people to self-declare themselves black? Is Mariah Carey black? I wouldn't have thought she was at all black until I read that she was. It isn't an unreasonable question, the question of racial determination has been addressed by native american tribes, why not for blacks that get benefits based upon their race? I realize that determining race wasn't needed when it was discrimination that was being handed out. But I don't think it should go as an undefined characteristic now, when important benefits and penalties are at stake.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #74 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou mean besides continuing to divide people along racial lines, preventing them from thinking of each other simply as other people? You really think race-based media has this effect? What makes you say/think that? It certainly does legitimize the notion of blacks "staying black." (As in, "Stay black, m'man!") Identifying ONESELF as "black" instead of just "human" serves no noble, useful purpose, as far as I see it. The only result is a continued division and refusal to relate with other races. If white people refused to associate with blacks the way blacks often refuse to associate with whites (socially), we'd be called bigoted. I am not the first, by any means, to point out that racist and bigoted behavior is quite often forgiven when blacks do it, but condemned when whites do it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #75 January 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI assume that you weren't around before the civil rights movement, so you have no actual first hand experience of REAL racism in action. Interesting, do you say that to everyone of that age or younger regardless of race? Well, I'd be interested to know how many of the angry young white folks writing here have ever been made to sit at the back of a bus, refused admission to a restaurant or movie theater, or have been lynched based solely on their race. Having to deal with an entertainment channel targetted at one race seems a minor inconvenience by comparison, but it sure generates a lot of anger. How about "made to feel targeted, intimidated and threatened because he was the only white guy in an area that is 'black'"? You think blacks can't treat whites badly when they are in their element and feel they have the upper hand? And when they do, do you believe that is not racist/bigoted? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
