CNN poll right now: "Will the congressional focus on ethics lead to meaningful reform?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Will the congressional focus on ethics lead to meaningful reform?
Yes
No

It is to laugh.

The current tally of votes has YES: 9%, NO: 91%


I'm with the NOs. I can't imagine what kind of idiot you'd have to be to think, "Yeah, this time they're serious about stopping being corrupt in government."


-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Gravitymaster 0]

I thought we fixed all this with campaign finance reform.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I thought we fixed all this with campaign finance reform.

I just got a great idea for a bumper sticker, thanks to you:

"Campaign Finance Reform Fixed Our Elections!"



(Kinda like my other favorite: "No Government Is Better Than Our Government.")

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[happythoughts 0]

I don't see why people would change a system that got them elected.

Plus, the money was accepted with an obligation attached.
If they changed their mind, that would be lying. That would be an ethical problem.

[Amazon 7]

There is no way you let the politcians fix it, they have too much to lose.

To really fix it.. they need to kick every last lobbyist OUT of Washington. THey need to make it illegal to take ANY campaign contributions.

All campaigns should get money from the federal elections boards.
All state level campaigns would get money from their State elections board.

They need to get rid of all the moveon.org and swift boat type groups. Eliminate the vast sums needed to BUY political offices.
That would level the playing field for candidates of ALL political parties and we could get rid of the deadlock the Democrats and Republicans have on our government.

Maybe we might even get to hear some new ideas from people more qualified to actually serve the American people rather than serving only themselves.

[mnealtx 0]

Agreed!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[akarunway 1]

Can you say http://www.termlimits.org/?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

So in order to protect the People from runaway corrupt government, we set up term limits which:

- prevent anyone from getting a real good amount of experience at lawmaking

- prevent the People from re-electing a lawmaker who actually was NOT corrupt, and was doing a good job

Somehow this system would prevent a person from getting backing to help him get elected, on the promise that he will "deliver" back to those who help him get elected?

I love the way people argue that taking choices away from the People is a valid way of getting rid of corruption in politics.

How about a fucking DEATH PENALTY for any person caught engaging in corruption?! Public HANGING. Forfeiture of ALL FAMILY WEALTH.

Do that a few times, and see who wants to be a scumbag corrupt politician.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I uh, take it you are opposed to any future campaign of Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Hillary Clinton, and every other politician who is clearly a "career politician" -- particularly any of those aforementioned (or omitted) politicians who have already served far longer than the limits proposed.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

There is no way you let the politcians fix it, they have too much to lose.

To really fix it.. they need to kick every last lobbyist OUT of Washington. THey need to make it illegal to take ANY campaign contributions.

All campaigns should get money from the federal elections boards.
All state level campaigns would get money from their State elections board.

They need to get rid of all the moveon.org and swift boat type groups. Eliminate the vast sums needed to BUY political offices.
That would level the playing field for candidates of ALL political parties and we could get rid of the deadlock the Democrats and Republicans have on our government.

Maybe we might even get to hear some new ideas from people more qualified to actually serve the American people rather than serving only themselves.

3 cheers for this one - thought it should be repeated. I'd like to just see a few good debates with all the candidates at the same time where we can compare etc. Maybe each has a clean website where they put down what they believe - and with areas where they talk about the others. If they can't state their positions and only 'politi-speak' then at least we know if they have any balls.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DrewGPM 0]

Quote

To really fix it.. they need to kick every last lobbyist OUT of Washington. THey need to make it illegal to take ANY campaign contributions...

Lobbyists can be very useful in government. When a bill comes up on the wild salmon fishing industry, most people are pretty clueless of the issues. Lobbyist from both sides of the issue can educate the congressmen and senators on the subject.

It gets unethical is when money changes hands. I want you to vote for my side of the story, so I donate to your campaign...that's too close to buying my vote. It has got to stop. I like the idea of putting all campaign donations in to a general election fund. All the contributions gets split evenly among the candidates. Everone spends the same amount of money the election, that's a fair fight.

I also like term limits. Twelve years in a row is enough time to get things done. Two terms in the senate, six terms in congress. After that, thanks for your service...let someone else take a turn. If you think you can get more done, I'd let you try running again, but you gotta take at least one term off. You might still end up a guy like Ted Kennedy servng for 30+ years...but it won't be continuous. He'd also have to fight to win an election every once in a while.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Lobbyists can be very useful in government. When a bill comes up on the wild salmon fishing industry, most people are pretty clueless of the issues. Lobbyist from both sides of the issue can educate the congressmen and senators on the subject.

It sounds good BUT.. the reality we have .... leads to corruption and cronyism.

I have a far better way.

Make them come home and listen to the PEOPLE who elect them. Have REAL town hall meetings where an issue can be discussed, instead of making every town hall meeting a cherry picked audience who is in lockstep with your OWN political views, and where any dissenting voices are escorted OUT. Dictators do that sort of thing our elected representatives should not.

For your Salmon bill comes up.. let a group of the representatives and thier staffers attend regional meetings. I think we would get a far better government and far better laws, ones that represent the will of WE THE GOVERNED.. rather than WE WHO CAN AFFORD TO BUY YOU.

[Sen.Blutarsky 0]

Quote

Have REAL town hall meetings where an issue can be discussed, instead of making every town hall meeting a cherry picked audience who is in lockstep with your OWN political views, and where any dissenting voices are escorted OUT. Dictators do that sort of thing our elected representatives should not.

One could argue that being escorted outside is somewhat more polite and less disruptive than the shouting and hissing down of discordant voices which the liberals routinely practice at their “open” meetings. Each tends to have the same effect on political discourse IMO.


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

[Amazon 7]

Quote

One could argue that being escorted outside is somewhat more polite and less disruptive than the shouting and hissing down of discordant voices which the liberals routinely practice at their “open” meetings. Each tends to have the same effect on political discourse IMO

"One" could but one would be wrong. When the power elites pull the type of exclusion they have been you end up with people who need to act out to get their voices heard. So I guess you fall on the side of hearing only one side and hearing it like you want to hear it.....great. Another Politician that needs retirement.

[chuteless 1]

someone has reported that it is possible to buy a Congressman on ebay....

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

One could argue that being escorted outside is somewhat more polite and less disruptive than the shouting and hissing down of discordant voices which the liberals routinely practice at their “open” meetings. Each tends to have the same effect on political discourse IMO.

Totally agree, and to keep it even, we also have anti-abortion types on the extreme right that do the same tactics of shouting down anything not on their personal agenda. Just because the rabidly uneducated of both parties think shrill screaming is the same as 'free speech' doesn't mean they aren't just disrepecting the free speech of others. That's where they cross the line.

Everyone can attend, but everyone needs to be mutually respectful or they can leave.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Everyone can attend, but everyone needs to be mutually respectful or they can leave.

BINGO

what a refreshing thought

[Remster 30]

Click on "level of taint" video: http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml Its shocking

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

Now that's funny stuff. thanks

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Sen.Blutarsky 0]

I personally have been shouted down by liberal activists "acting out" at public meetings for daring to speak in favor of practical, centrist proposals to address real problems. The effect was that my political expression was not allowed to be contributed in the tradition of honorable compromise. It makes no difference to me whether conservatives or liberals are the ones who are exercising censorship, I believe we need open debate to achieve consensus in this country and I’m pleased to see now that you agree with this view.


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

It makes no difference to me whether conservatives or liberals are the ones who are exercising censorship, I believe we need open debate to achieve consensus in this country and I’m pleased to see now that you agree with this view.

I think Amazon's point was one about politicians listening more than speechifying - she just likes to use bad examples from the right wing because that's her axe.

Yours was more about rude and self righteous individuals in the audience messing up the works for everyone. Which happens a lot from the left, but not 100%.

Both sets of actions are mutually supporting and a chicken vs egg argument is a waste of time as it's likely both elements at fault in any given speech any given day.

This is about both really.

Since both happens a lot, we can either get cynical, or just amused by the wierdos.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RMURRAY 1]

Quote

someone has reported that it is possible to buy a Congressman on ebay....

well it must be true then.

Chaplain: Let us praise God. O Lord...
Congregation: O Lord...
Chaplain: ...Ooh, You are so big...
Congregation: ...ooh, You are so big...
Chaplain: ...So absolutely huge.
Congregation: ...So absolutely huge.
Chaplain: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Congregation: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Chaplain: Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and...
Congregation: And barefaced flattery.
Chaplain: But You are so strong and, well, just so super.
Congregation: Fantastic.
Humphrey: Amen.
Congregation: Amen.

The Meaning of Life (1983)

[brierebecca 0]

Quote

Lobbyists can be very useful in government. When a bill comes up on the wild salmon fishing industry, most people are pretty clueless of the issues. Lobbyist from both sides of the issue can educate the congressmen and senators on the subject

That, and they've become an integral part of our Constitutional right to petition the government about our grievances. Not saying it's a good system, just making an observation.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[livendive 8]

Quote

I also like term limits. Twelve years in a row is enough time to get things done. Two terms in the senate, six terms in congress. After that, thanks for your service...let someone else take a turn.

Wouldn't that produce a problem in which politicians would spend the latter part of their term limits trying to arrange a lucrative position in the private sector?

Bleus,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wmw999 2,589]

Term limits are the lazy voter's answer to bad legislators. The power of already being in office is huge, because too many people figure if they personally haven't suffered because of someone, it's OK if they stay in.

Only the exceedingly worst of legislators etc. will impact a lot of people negatively. Sometimes the short-term impact of a long-term solution will seem negative, and folks who are taking a long-term look never get a chance.

So they get elected again and again.

I think they should have to run icognito every time. Everyone dons burkhas for the debates, and their names and party affiliations are removed from all text. And no sotto-voce ads saying "can you imagine what xxxxx is doing?" or "xxxxx is a (gasp) liberal" (always an effective ploy here in Texas).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)