Education in America - John Stossel on 20/20

[TheAnvil 0]

Check this out.

We were speaking about 700 Florida kids just a week or so ago...

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[pirana 0]

Great article, to the point, and no secret to anyone who's taken a close look at our system. But the entitlement mentality around public education is incredible. How do you effect change against a system that is so entrenched. In a bureacracy that big, where almost no one on the inside wants real and significant change - how do you change things?

Maybe I'm too upset with it to see the good things happening. Maybe the charter school movement, complete with it's fits and starts, is the beginning of a serious revamping of our system.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[lawrocket 3]

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the entitlement mentality around public education is incredible.

Particularly in the teachers union.

There are excellent teachers out there. Most teachers are excellent, and most care about the kids and the students. But, the present day educational system is designed to keep the poor and disadvantaged poor and disadvantaged.

Yes, I'll come out and say that it is racist. There are very few circumstances where I will allege racism. But with public education, I think that the numbers and circumstances speak for themselves.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Airman1270 0]

For years now nearly everyone, including politicians and the public school leadership, has acknowledged that the current system is a disgraceful failure. (After all, they all support certain attempts at "reform," indicating they do not think everything is hunky dory.)

However, these attempts to fix the problems are all based on increasing micro-management by government, such as the president's "conservative" NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND piece of nonsense.

The solution is very simple.

Part 1) Give the schools complete freedom to pursue whatever policies they please. Personnel, curriculum, discipline, etc.; In addition, give them immunity from lawsuits. Just let them do whatever they want.

Part 2) Repeal all compulsory attendance laws. Don't make it a crime for parents to refuse to submit their children to a system that wastes their money & their children's time, insults their intelligence, and holds their values in contempt.

Part 3) Sit back and watch the schools fix themselves.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[billvon 3,120]

>Part 3) Sit back and watch the schools fix themselves.

Why? A corrupt school would have zero attendance and would still be supported by the state; sorta ideal if your dream is to do nothing and live off the public teat. I think you left out "base their funding on actual daily attendance and test scores" or something along those lines.

[Airman1270 0]

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>Part 3) Sit back and watch the schools fix themselves.

Why? A corrupt school would have zero attendance and would still be supported by the state; sorta ideal if your dream is to do nothing and live off the public teat. I think you left out "base their funding on actual daily attendance and test scores" or something along those lines.

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(...sssshhhHH - Don't wake them up....)

Yes, you're right. Take the whole finance thing out of the government/tax mind set. Let parents keep their money and pay tuition at a school which offers what they seek.

Jon

[rehmwa 2]

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Let parents keep their money and pay tuition at a school which offers what they seek.

That'll never fly - it takes out the part where the government first gets to take the money away and then move it around under some shells, and then turns around and gives it back to whoever is screaming the loudest.

You can't purchase any votes with your proposal.

won't work

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pirana 0]

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Let parents keep their money and pay tuition at a school which offers what they seek.

That'll never fly - it takes out the part where the government first gets to take the money away and then move it around under some shells, and then turns around and gives it back to whoever is screaming the loudest.

You can't purchase any votes with your proposal.

won't work

Yes indeedy; exactly what I meant in referring to the resistance to change. Everybody talks big, but no one is willing to put their meal ticket where their mouth is - even though the potential payoff might be huge.

That and the fact that one end of the spectrum (the my-kids-don't-need-no-stinking-education crowd) would opt out altogether.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rehmwa 2]

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That and the fact that one end of the spectrum (the my-kids-don't-need-no-stinking-education crowd) would opt out altogether.

that's fine too - we need clean toilets and dishes and nicely rounded ditches and independent small business ventures, too.

Not that there's anything wrong with that

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

One of the local talk radio guys put it this way recently.

He pointed out that the state spends an average of $10,000 per student per year for education. So in your average classroom of 25 kids, that represents a quarter-million dollars of education for one year. The teacher gets maybe $50,000 of that. The infrastructure in building and utilities for that one class, maybe $10,000. Books, computer and supplies, maybe another $20,000. So where in the hell is the other $170,000 going?

Private education has got to be cheaper than this. Let them innovate.

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm not sure where the $10000 per student comes from down in TX, around here it is less then $7000 per student. At just over $45 million in budget it educates 6,500 students. There are 420 teachers and 720 staff and administrators in the school district. At $40k per teacher that alone is $16,800,000 spent. Figure at about $60k for a principal and $15k for an admin per school at I think about 25 buildings thats another
$1,875,000 spent. Roughly 19 million is spent on personal alone.

You want to know where the rest of the money goes?

Your average HS or MS sports program pays over $1500 in salary to the coaching per sport. Cut those sporting programs and that alone saves $15000. Now figure in a sport like football where the school pays for the vast majority of the equipment cost per student and thats another roughly $15000 to outfit the HS and MS teams.

You will need a cooking staff of at least 2 at $20k a year plus the equipment costs to run that kitchen. Figure $1k per month on food cost for those students. (some you can bill back in lunch tickets but its hard to pass all the cost on)

Your average bus driver does'nt do it for free so they need paid. Oh, pay for the maintence crew to keep your fleet of busses working and up to code. Maintence personal probally make $40k each and you need at least 1 or 2 of those if you have more then a couple busses.

So far we are up to $155k and thats assuming you have a small bus fleet. Now you need to pay your heating bills and those here in the winter aren't cheap. Figure if my house is $300 a month that a school is 10 times the size so $3000 per month (probally on the low side) Figure that bill for 4 months is $12k then AC for may, june and August at the same rate. Call it $30k per year in just heating. Another couple of thousand in water/sewage/trash. At least $10k in electricity.

Loans aren't given to schools interest free so they need to be paying back the interest on those multimillion dollar loans each month. Want to guess that yearly cost?

I'd love to see the largest private school to see how many people they have enrolled and the numbers they are seeing. I'd bet that most private schools don't have more then 250-300 kids total for K-8. Private schools typically don't have to run bussing programs either.

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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[pirana 0]

I would agree on some of the additional costs, but not all. Both my daughters went to a small private preschool for 2 years. Cost was $5K each per year. Stretched our budget pretty thin, but it was worth it to lay a solid foundation.

MN & WI both are in the $10K per student per year. I'm guessing the doubling of costs is mostly related to "programs." By that I mean sports, music, all kinds of special ed, all kinds of non-educational BS, loads of unnecessary layers of admin people, etc. Probably mostly stuff the average person doesn't see and is not even aware of.

And with the expected benefit of large schools enjoying economies of scale, the waste must be terrific. It's always bugged me, but I've never seen an itemized school budget. Your email has made me more curious than ever. Might have to look into it.

It galls me that they spend 2 times what the private school spends, and the only difference I can see is bus service and sports teams.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[PhreeZone 20]

Not just the sports teams and buses but things like special education classes are a huge drain on money. Class sizes are much smaller with more aides needed. You need roughly double the teachers for Special Ed classes as regular around here. Private schools can just refuse to accept people they see as bing a financial liability to them. Special needs? Not accepting at this time. Behaivor issues? No to that application.

With economies of scale you get some price breaks, but you also have higher costs in other things. You need to have more subsituate teachers since you have more teachers potentially sick. The insurance policy alone for my local school district (I looked it up since this thread intriqued me) is more then the cost of my mortage.

Additional cost that a lot of schools are having to do now is the renovation of buildings that were not ment for the levels of usage they are seeing today. My local district is growing at a rate that has them putting up 3 new schools next year and adding on to 3 others. Thats after building a new school last year.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com