billvon 3,119
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Kid uses real-looking fake gun to take hostage in school; is shot by police
By
peacefuljeffrey, in Speakers Corner
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The kids of every generation have slackers and proactive "society fixers".
I volunteered at the Humane society as a teen.
My Dad volunteered at the Youth center as a Teen.
My Grandfather volunteered at the Boy Scouts as a Teen.
The commonality, Parents invovlement in the childs life. They showed each generation right from wrong and even though it may have had flaws they communicated with each other.
The media wasn't able to show this then, as now.
The current trend in the US ( I can not speak of other countries even though I have been in a few, it has never been long enough), is for the multi media toys to raise our kids.
The parents who fail to spend time (quality time) with their kids are failing them. Those are the parents who say ADD and Medication as soon as the child acts out. Those are the Parents who scream for the Judge to do some thing as soon as the police pick up their child. Those are the Parents who tell you about how much fucking money they have but can not tell you the childs teachers name, class schedule, hobies, friends names, the childs age and birth date!
( I do not dispute that ADD may be legite, I think though a lot of ADD children actuall sufer from PADD [think about it] and do not need any medication just time from the parent).
Th police had been put in a bad spot and the officer should feel he made the right call, even though he did not make it alone, unfortunatly he will probably be huanted in mind for many years. I know I am.
I volunteered at the Humane society as a teen.
My Dad volunteered at the Youth center as a Teen.
My Grandfather volunteered at the Boy Scouts as a Teen.
The commonality, Parents invovlement in the childs life. They showed each generation right from wrong and even though it may have had flaws they communicated with each other.
The media wasn't able to show this then, as now.
The current trend in the US ( I can not speak of other countries even though I have been in a few, it has never been long enough), is for the multi media toys to raise our kids.
The parents who fail to spend time (quality time) with their kids are failing them. Those are the parents who say ADD and Medication as soon as the child acts out. Those are the Parents who scream for the Judge to do some thing as soon as the police pick up their child. Those are the Parents who tell you about how much fucking money they have but can not tell you the childs teachers name, class schedule, hobies, friends names, the childs age and birth date!
( I do not dispute that ADD may be legite, I think though a lot of ADD children actuall sufer from PADD [think about it] and do not need any medication just time from the parent).
Th police had been put in a bad spot and the officer should feel he made the right call, even though he did not make it alone, unfortunatly he will probably be huanted in mind for many years. I know I am.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
Your post clearly is expressing my thoughts, even I'm from another country.
Said with a lot of sympathetic understanding. I like it.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Said with a lot of sympathetic understanding. I like it.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Quote
I heard on the news that realistic looking pellet guns have a red nozzle at the opening of the barrel so you could tell what it was. I didn't get the whole story though, I only caught the part where the anchor man was interviewing a past teenage killer from 1997 by phone in prison...
Might just apply to toy guns intended for sale to kids. I was in Big 5 earlier today and I looked at the pellet guns they had on display. Some were clearly designed to look not like guns, with red nozzles and transparent plastic bodies. Others looked pretty much like handguns.
wmw999 2,589
Yup.
The policeman did the right thing, with a tragic consequence. There's a story in the paper saying that the family came to the school and tried to tell the police that they didn't think their son had a real gun, but were not allowed in.
I have a feeling that the officer on the scene never knew that. When you're talking about a situation with children at risk (all the other kids at the school), they're going to do the best they can.
The boy in question was apparently very depressed, and had expressed to a number of people about it. I don't know about psychological help. I do know that teenagers can express things to their friends that they hide effectively from their parents. And they're proud of it. Some parents can figure it out anyway, and others can't.
The boy's organs are being harvested for donation. What an awful thing to have to decide about your child. They don't sound like bad people either. There isn't always a "fault" and someone that you can blame for something like this. It can happen to people that you know.
Wendy W.
The policeman did the right thing, with a tragic consequence. There's a story in the paper saying that the family came to the school and tried to tell the police that they didn't think their son had a real gun, but were not allowed in.
I have a feeling that the officer on the scene never knew that. When you're talking about a situation with children at risk (all the other kids at the school), they're going to do the best they can.
The boy in question was apparently very depressed, and had expressed to a number of people about it. I don't know about psychological help. I do know that teenagers can express things to their friends that they hide effectively from their parents. And they're proud of it. Some parents can figure it out anyway, and others can't.
The boy's organs are being harvested for donation. What an awful thing to have to decide about your child. They don't sound like bad people either. There isn't always a "fault" and someone that you can blame for something like this. It can happen to people that you know.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteWhat the hell are they teaching German cops?
Warning shots?!
Shooting in the FIBIA?!
Wouldn't surprise me. I know that the Dutch police is certainly trained that way. Definitely trained to take wounding shots whenever possible.
Quite a shock when you find out not everybody thinks KILL, KILL, KILL isn't it?
QuoteQuoteWhat the hell are they teaching German cops?
Warning shots?!
Shooting in the FIBIA?!
Wouldn't surprise me. I know that the Dutch police is certainly trained that way. Definitely trained to take wounding shots whenever possible.
Quite a shock when you find out not everybody thinks KILL, KILL, KILL isn't it?
German police is well trained at first to "stop".... not to kill. They have to decide w/in seconds. In extrem situations, in case of highest danger for life of victims, our special forces know how to kill with first shoot. These are our MenInBlack
- Yeah, here they come 
. As soon as they enter the scene ... man oh man - that's better than Hollywood!
dudeist skydiver # 3105
To think that there was not a non-lethal method to bring an end to this is crazy. To think that the cop could not had got a good look at the pistol through his high-power scope is also crazy. I would think that there were plenty of ways for this to have a better ending. "Peaceful"jeffery, you do seem to show abit to much glee in the suffering and death of others. All to often the first course of action is to kill and then negotiate. Throw out the rubber bullets and pass the hollow points. The police need to revamp the way they handle particular situations as they seem to handle them all with a one size fits all mentality. Bullet to the head, job well done. Bullshit.
Anyone here who has kids, would you be happy that the cops took a killshot instead of a wounding shot if it were your child holding that BB gun? No you would not. You would have a completely different view.
Anyone here who has kids, would you be happy that the cops took a killshot instead of a wounding shot if it were your child holding that BB gun? No you would not. You would have a completely different view.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Rick 67
From piecing together the local reports it seems the gun had been modified(painted over red tip) to resemble a real gun.
The child had just returned to this school from a school for troubled kids in part because he threatened to blow up a school bus a few weeks ago.
By the time the father was on site the situation was over, so I do not see how they could have told the cops the gun was not real.
The child was chased around the school for several minutes by the school resource officer (seminole county sheriff) and was pleaded with to drop the weapon.
The child made a statement to other children that he was going to die that day.
sad and tragic but these are the facts as I understand them from the local media. for whatever it is worth.
The child had just returned to this school from a school for troubled kids in part because he threatened to blow up a school bus a few weeks ago.
By the time the father was on site the situation was over, so I do not see how they could have told the cops the gun was not real.
The child was chased around the school for several minutes by the school resource officer (seminole county sheriff) and was pleaded with to drop the weapon.
The child made a statement to other children that he was going to die that day.
sad and tragic but these are the facts as I understand them from the local media. for whatever it is worth.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
JohnRich 4
QuoteTo think that the cop could not had got a good look at the pistol through his high-power scope is also crazy.
Even a close-up, side-by-side comparison with the real gun, showed the toy to be almost identical. You're assuming something that is not in evidence.
QuoteThe police need to revamp the way they handle particular situations as they seem to handle them all with a one size fits all mentality. Bullet to the head, job well done. Bullshit.
And if you were facing a crazed teen with what appeared to be a real gun, you wouldn't hesitate to put your life in his hands, and forego your own safety. Bullshit.
QuoteAnyone here who has kids, would you be happy that the cops took a killshot instead of a wounding shot if it were your child holding that BB gun? No you would not. You would have a completely different view.
The parents of kids who threaten people with what appears to be a real gun, do not get to set police policy for everyone else.
If you were the wife or kids of a police officer, wondering if your husband or father is going to come home safe from an encounter with a crazed, armed criminal, then you would have a completely different view. I value the life of a police officer more than I do a crazed, armed criminal.
Zep 0
I saw this first here on DZ com, This morning I read about it in two main newspapers here in Spain, (one left one right )
both ran the same story, Saying that the family had told the police that it was a toy gun but the officer shot him all the same,
then the police would not comment on the shooting,
I'm not making any personal opinions, just saying how it was reported here in Spain. So dont flame me, an say who cares
how another country see's it, World opinion does matter, an it seems to me that most of the worlds press is out to get you.
Now my opinion, If a kid is stupid enough to point a real or fake gun at a police officer (or any other person ) he deserves to get shot.
Gone fishing
both ran the same story, Saying that the family had told the police that it was a toy gun but the officer shot him all the same,
then the police would not comment on the shooting,
I'm not making any personal opinions, just saying how it was reported here in Spain. So dont flame me, an say who cares
how another country see's it, World opinion does matter, an it seems to me that most of the worlds press is out to get you.
Now my opinion, If a kid is stupid enough to point a real or fake gun at a police officer (or any other person ) he deserves to get shot.
Gone fishing
Rick 67
I have personnally seen at least 3 press conferences with the FDLE, the sherrif, the head of the swat team and school officials. I think the police are doing plenty of "commenting" on the case.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
Having looked through the high power scope I say your a bit mislead. Even at moderate range with good lighting it is not easy to tell real from fake.
Being told of previous threats makes the target go from "rubber" to "full metal jacket" to save lives. He has a histroy and it appears he is moving up the ladder of violence at that point. he has threatened bombs, so why not having bullets? they are easier to get a hold of.
Did He take a hostage at one point ?(again hard to see weapon clearly if masked by the head of ahostage).
He was chased around by a school cop, he may have made verbal threats and again hard to see if real or fake when moving.
The officer who shot did the right thing, IMO, with the knowledge he had. If a perimeter officer or supervisor had more info and didn't relay it it is not the shooting officers fault.
It is a sad day. But not the officers fault. It is the Parents for not being more invovled in the childs life. Don't ask me to accept, condone and pay for poor parenting which leads to poor behaiver on the childs part. Don't ask me to condem the Police for protecting my child while she is at school.
Being told of previous threats makes the target go from "rubber" to "full metal jacket" to save lives. He has a histroy and it appears he is moving up the ladder of violence at that point. he has threatened bombs, so why not having bullets? they are easier to get a hold of.
Did He take a hostage at one point ?(again hard to see weapon clearly if masked by the head of ahostage).
He was chased around by a school cop, he may have made verbal threats and again hard to see if real or fake when moving.
The officer who shot did the right thing, IMO, with the knowledge he had. If a perimeter officer or supervisor had more info and didn't relay it it is not the shooting officers fault.
It is a sad day. But not the officers fault. It is the Parents for not being more invovled in the childs life. Don't ask me to accept, condone and pay for poor parenting which leads to poor behaiver on the childs part. Don't ask me to condem the Police for protecting my child while she is at school.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
QuoteYup.
The policeman did the right thing, with a tragic consequence. There's a story in the paper saying that the family came to the school and tried to tell the police that they didn't think their son had a real gun, but were not allowed in.
I have a feeling that the officer on the scene never knew that. When you're talking about a situation with children at risk (all the other kids at the school), they're going to do the best they can.
The boy in question was apparently very depressed, and had expressed to a number of people about it. I don't know about psychological help. I do know that teenagers can express things to their friends that they hide effectively from their parents. And they're proud of it. Some parents can figure it out anyway, and others can't.
The boy's organs are being harvested for donation. What an awful thing to have to decide about your child. They don't sound like bad people either. There isn't always a "fault" and someone that you can blame for something like this. It can happen to people that you know.
Wendy W.
_______________________________________
Well said!
Chuck
QuoteThe policeman did the right thing, with a tragic consequence. There's a story in the paper saying that the family came to the school and tried to tell the police that they didn't think their son had a real gun, but were not allowed in.
I don't think it would matter.
As realistic as that Airsoft gun looked, I could easily imagine that the family could be right at the cop's elbow shrieking at him that it's a fake, and the cop could look at the gun in the kid's hand again and think, "No fuckin' way, that thing looks real, and they're just trying to buy their kid time to come to his senses and surrender -- time in which he might just decide to shoot me with that 'turns-out-it-really-is-real' Beretta!"
I am not gonna second-guess this cop. That fuckin' Airsoft gun looks real!
-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
rehmwa 2
Cops need to be further trained to use rubberbands to shoot guns out of the hands of poor armed defensless criminals.
I'm just in conflict about one aspect. Those rubber bands can REALLY sting.
maybe if they just ask nicely and give them candy instead
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
I'm just in conflict about one aspect. Those rubber bands can REALLY sting.
maybe if they just ask nicely and give them candy instead
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
SkyDekker 1,465
pretty sad when a troubled young kid is killed and the best you can do is joke about it....
rehmwa 2
Quotepretty sad when a troubled young kid is killed and the best you can do is joke about it....
That's the 'worst' I can do about it Mister. And don't forget it. You've been in a mood this last week. Can we send you a care package?
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
SkyDekker 1,465
getting divorced, second baby is due next week, first might be going blind, I am moving two households this weekend and work keeps getting busier and busier...
send me heavy bag, never mind a care package....
send me heavy bag, never mind a care package....
wmw999 2,589
That's a very small whine for a big load.
Good luck, and I hope things steady down.
Wendy W.
Good luck, and I hope things steady down.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
We should start a poll....How many people are scared that they agree with everything peacefuljeffrey says about this????
How many cops are DEAD, kids with no Moms or Dads, because the cop hesitated for a moment and wondered 'is that real?' or 'is he really going to hurt me?' Probably way more than people who got shot holding a toy gun that looks like the real thing.
Whou would you rather live anyway? Someone who spends his life protecting us or some crackpot kid that would probably continue same behaviors for the rest of his life?
If this little dead assholes parents sue, I hope they are shot dead in cold blood for principle. They can all be in looney heaven together.
--
How many cops are DEAD, kids with no Moms or Dads, because the cop hesitated for a moment and wondered 'is that real?' or 'is he really going to hurt me?' Probably way more than people who got shot holding a toy gun that looks like the real thing.
Whou would you rather live anyway? Someone who spends his life protecting us or some crackpot kid that would probably continue same behaviors for the rest of his life?
If this little dead assholes parents sue, I hope they are shot dead in cold blood for principle. They can all be in looney heaven together.
--
Your one warning.
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