big brother

[akarunway 1]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece Good or bad?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Amazon 7]

Pssst look around you on highways next time you drive. Here on the East Side of the Seattle Area I see them ALLL over. Its amazing really.. but no one seems to be pitching much of a bitch. Intersections.. freeways.. I mean they call em traffic cams.. but.. well you know.. Big Brother IS watching

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Pssst look around you on highways next time you drive. Here on the East Side of the Seattle Area I see them ALLL over. Its amazing really.. but no one seems to be pitching much of a bitch. Intersections.. freeways.. I mean they call em traffic cams.. but.. well you know.. Big Brother IS watching

Chicago, Baltimore, San Diego, NYC and a bunch of others are already doing it too.

The government can also access your ATM usage, credit card usage, cell phone (and know exactly where you are if you have an E911 enabled phone), and, as we've seen this week, listen to your phone conversations without a warrant. If you have a RFID device on your car for a toll road, they know about that too. And survey crowds at concerts and sporting events with face recognition software.

1984 has truly arrived.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

Wasnt it all the Ubber Righties and the militias bitching about all this government intrusion just a few years ago.... hmmmm I guess if THEY are doing it.. it must be ok.

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Wasnt it all the Ubber Righties and the militias bitching about all this government intrusion just a few years ago.... hmmmm I guess if THEY are doing it.. it must be ok.

Both parties are to blame. Daley (Chicago mayor) is a Democrat and is every bit as much a fascist as Cheney or Ashcroft.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[akarunway 1]

"1984 has truly arrived."-------------------------------------------------------True that. Been here for awhile but all the SHEEP out there don't seem to care

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[miked10270 0]

Yeah... The system is called "ANPR" for "Automatic Number Plare Regognition" and it's been around for years in speed cameras and the like. Effectively it's a computer that can scan for and read a vehicle registration plate from a CCTV camera.

Like I said, this technology has been in police hands and used for 5 years or so without any fuss being made. Using it was like having absolute observation combined with a steel-trap memory for "vehicles of interest"!

Where it's all suddenly "coming together" now is twofold:

1. ANPR is being fitted toas amny roadside & vehicle monitoring cameras as possible, including those nominally in private hands all sending number plates to The Police National Computer at Hendon (which already has details of police interest vehicles).

2. The PNC also now receives data on vehicles which don't have mandatory insurance, road tax, and a current certificate of roadworthiness (UK vehicles must submit to periodic roadworthiness inspections).

SO... if you use a vehicle which isn't taxed, isn't insured, hasn't been tested, reported stolen, or known to be used by a crimal, then every time it comes into view of a camera it'll be recognised and doubtless the local police service will be informed (hopefully imediately).

There are in fact distinct problems in using it for revenue - but as a security measure it WILL go some way to making a criminal's life more difficult!
Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

including those nominally in private hands

I think that is where things get scary. Where information gathered by private companies is automatically forwarded to the government.

Isn't it funny that in your fight for peace and freedom all you keep giving up is your own freedom.....

[miked10270 0]

Quote

... scary... information gathered by private companies is automatically forwarded to the government...

Ordinarily yes. However, in this case the Government only takes number plate info from a known location, date & time. More importantly, the companies have no control & no knowledge of the information being sent. In effect, all the Police National Computer gets is "VRM, date, time, locus" as a borrowed feed from existing cameras. Negative returns are going to be ignored and deleted quickly.

Personally, I love the idea and I see real benefits. Then again, I am a PNC operator and i know that there's pretty stringent & draconian measures in force against abuses.

I honestly think that this is something we can be fairly relaxed about.
Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Both parties are to blame.

Haven't you been paying attention? She doesn't want to hear that. But fair enough, neither do most of the others too.

Happy Solstice - is it just me, or do the days seem to be getting 'slightly' longer?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Ordinarily yes. However, in this case the Government only takes number plate info from a known location, date & time. More importantly, the companies have no control & no knowledge of the information being sent. In effect, all the Police National Computer gets is "VRM, date, time, locus" as a borrowed feed from existing cameras. Negative returns are going to be ignored and deleted quickly.

So who decides which license plates are followed and for what reasons?

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

Wasnt it all the Ubber Righties and the militias bitching about all this government intrusion just a few years ago.... hmmmm I guess if THEY are doing it.. it must be ok.

Both parties are to blame. Daley (Chicago mayor) is a Democrat and is every bit as much a fascist as Cheney or Ashcroft.

Yeah, but Daley is his daddy's boy, and as you & I both remember well, Old Man Daley was an old-fashioned 40's/50's/60's-style "labor" Democrat; he certainly wasn't a social liberal on issues that didn't have to do with workers' protections. The fascisti were a wing of their own in the Democratic party back then, much like the ol'-style Democrats in the Deep South who were venomously anti-civil rights.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

The fascisti were a wing of their own in the Democratic party back then, much like the ol'-style Democrats in the Deep South who were venomously anti-civil rights.

Yup totally agree.
Those same people ran to the Republican party after Johnson passed the Civil Rights laws in the 60's. He KNEW he was going to lose the south when he did it. My roots are in the deep south and MOST of the family members who were either really conservative and the sheet wearin folk in the family are now STAUNCH supporters of the Ultra Right.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Isn't it funny that in your fight for peace and freedom all you keep giving up is your own freedom.....

Not to mention everybody else's peace.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[miked10270 0]

Quote

So who decides which license plates are followed and for what reasons?

Without getting "TOO" technical, PNC can produce an "Information Response" for:

1. Untaxed Vehicles.

2. Uninsured Vehicles (from details of insured vehicles already provided to PNC from insurance companies associations like BIBA & ABI)

3. Vehicles without a valid roadworthiness certificate in force (details from testing stations via VOSA)

4. Vehicles reported stolen.

5. Vehicles reported destroyed, scrapped, or permanently exported.

6. Other "Police Interest" vehicles. (Vehicles known to be used by travelling criminals, disqualified drivers & similar - info comes from individual officers who are responsible for the accuracy of the information submitted)

There "MAY" be other categories, only available to the security services or similar. On occasion, a routine vehicle check has come back to me as "Blocked". usually with instructions for the officer making the enquiry to contact the local Special Branch & give details.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

So a police officer could easily request his wife's car to be traced to see if she is fucking around on him.

Or find some dirt on the guy that pissed him off in the line up the day before...

Or the government is using this system to go after unpaid taxes......was the police used for that previously in the UK?

[miked10270 0]

Quote

So a police officer could easily request his wife's car to be traced to see if she is fucking around on him.

Or find some dirt on the guy that pissed him off in the line up the day before...

The result of which is that the police officer quickly finds himself a FORMER Police Officer. I doubt there's much point going into the checks etc... And punishments here - let's just say they're effective & draconian!

Quote

Or the government is using this system to go after unpaid taxes......was the police used for that previously in the UK?

Police always went after unpaid road taxes - an untaxed car almost invariably opens a big can of worms involving the reason WHY it isn't taxed. (It was very rarely just the cost of the tax).

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[jeiber 0]

Quote

So a police officer could easily request his wife's car to be traced to see if she is fucking around on him.

Or find some dirt on the guy that pissed him off in the line up the day before...

Or the government is using this system to go after unpaid taxes......was the police used for that previously in the UK?

You guys are such conspiracy theorists, good God! I work for the phone company. I have access to everybody's phone records in the entire Southeast US - even unlisted numbers.

Do I just go in there, trying to check up on ex's, or girlfriends? Absolutely not. There are detailed records kept on who accesses those systems. At an absolute minumum, I lose my job. Maximum, it's time in a Federal 'pound you in the ass' Prison.

I know. Let's just get rid of all today's technology, that way it can't be abused. Problem solved.

Sometimes I think you guys would complain about finding a cure for cancer.

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

You guys are such conspiracy theorists, good God! I work for the phone company. I have access to everybody's phone records in the entire Southeast US - even unlisted numbers.

Do I just go in there, trying to check up on ex's, or girlfriends? Absolutely not. There are detailed records kept on who accesses those systems. At an absolute minumum, I lose my job. Maximum, it's time in a Federal 'pound you in the ass' Prison.

I know. Let's just get rid of all today's technology, that way it can't be abused. Problem solved.

Sometimes I think you guys would complain about finding a cure for cancer.

I like it when you address me in plural....makes me feel all majestic....

I know plenty of cops who run spouses, boy friends of daughters, baby sitters etc through the system.

I know plenty of cops who have no issue with drinking a beer while driving down the road....

The point is that when very strict policies and procedures are not in place, the system will be abused!!!!!

[jeiber 0]

Quote

I like it when you address me in plural....makes me feel all majestic....

Actually I was referring to a few others agreeing with you.

Quote

The point is that when very strict policies and procedures are not in place, the system will be abused!!!!!

I could not agree more. Some people (not necessarily you) seem to want to reject great ideas, just because there's a potential for government abuse... cameras on street corners, for example!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

So a police officer could easily request his wife's car to be traced to see if she is fucking around on him.

Or find some dirt on the guy that pissed him off in the line up the day before...

Or the government is using this system to go after unpaid taxes......was the police used for that previously in the UK?

You guys are such conspiracy theorists, good God! I work for the phone company. I have access to everybody's phone records in the entire Southeast US - even unlisted numbers.

Do I just go in there, trying to check up on ex's, or girlfriends? Absolutely not. There are detailed records kept on who accesses those systems. At an absolute minumum, I lose my job. Maximum, it's time in a Federal 'pound you in the ass' Prison.

I know. Let's just get rid of all today's technology, that way it can't be abused. Problem solved.

Sometimes I think you guys would complain about finding a cure for cancer.

Jeff

And I suppose, in your alternate universe, Nixon never had had the IRS audit his political enemies.

""This memorandum addresses the matter of how we can maximize the fact of our incumbency in dealing with persons known to be active in their opposition to our Administration, Stated a bit more bluntly —how we can use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies." Memo from White House Counsel, 1971

If it can happen, it will happen.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jeiber 0]

Quote

And I suppose, in your alternate universe, Nixon never had had the IRS audit his political enemies.

Huh? What the hell is that supposed to mean? He did, and he got caught. What's your point?

As I said, let's take all computers, vehicles, surveillance devices, and anything else that can be abused, away from the government.

No more abuse - happy now?

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

And I suppose, in your alternate universe, Nixon never had had the IRS audit his political enemies.

Huh? What the hell is that supposed to mean? He did, and he got caught. What's your point?




Jeff

Thank you for making the point. He DID.

You are, of course, aware that his abuse of government power to punish his political enemies was not detected until the Watergate burglary was bungled and the enquiry into that began. The "system" did not catch him at all, there were no safeguards. His own lies brought him down.

And that is the problem with the current "Spy on Citizens without a Warrant" scandal - no safeguards against abuse of power.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jeiber 0]

Quote

And that is the problem with the current "Spy on Citizens without a Warrant" scandal - no safeguards against abuse of power.

So, unless a 'system' has 100% foolproof safegaurds, it shouldn't be allowed... Let's abolish wiretaps altogether, since there's no way to guarantee an agent won't tap his girlfriend/wife's phone.

Let's abolish computers, because they're prone to abuse in too many ways to list.

Let's take away their power to arrest, because an officer may arrest someone, just to inconvenience them.

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

So, unless a 'system' has 100% foolproof safegaurds, it shouldn't be allowed... Let's abolish wiretaps altogether, since there's no way to guarantee an agent won't tap his girlfriend/wife's phone.

No, you make him go to a judge to make sure he explains why he wants a wiretap....is it 100% foolproof? No, but it is better than "no explanation needed".